Massive Network of underground tunnels in American Southwest

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Whenever I see one of these stories I am instantly dubious. One has to ask themselves why anyone would ever do this??

Underground bunkers are one thing, but underground cities and hundreds/thousands of miles of tunnels makes no sense. First of all, just the sheer cost alone to build something like this is not even measurable. Secondly, the sheer number of people and material it would require to construct it, and support it, would be such that it would be an impossible secret to keep. Too many people would know. And lastly, who would it benefit? There's only so many elites and politicians. If the idea was to preserve the human race from some catastrophic event like a nuclear Armageddon, then what good is it if no one knows it's there, or where to go? You certainly won't be able to tell the masses after such an event, so unless they know about it beforehand what good does it serve?

Hum this is interesting, seems everyone is either build or has built underground.

Big list

Osaka has enormous underground networks in the Umeda, Namba, and Shinsaibashi districts, in which Umeda alone includes over 1,200 retail stores and restaurants, as well as subway and intercity rail stations.

Shinjuku underground has a reputation for being so large that people, even local Japanese, get lost there. It is in fact so complex, it is mapped by Google maps, in the same way that above ground road networks are, so that people can use their smartphones for navigation. [10]

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: face23785

I don't claim to speak for all of ATS.

Maybe you meant the whole world then?

Now it just looks childish and everyone laughs at you because they know you're just playing out your own little self-important fantasies.

You said "everyone"!

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
The speed isn't an issue at all to whomever said that.

233m/s is half the speed of a bullet.

With a rail long enough and a high powered Linear Induction Motor (LIM) could do it if given enough length and power. It's essentially a rail gun. The Navys net Jet Launch EMALS is a good example and it's not new technology.. rollercoasters have been using them for 25 years.

The tunneling isn't an issue either.


The issue would be, digging those tunnels would require alot.of man power... Alot of witnesses too to refine them. It would also cause quite a disturbance.

Definitely doable, just improbable as it would be a hard secret to keep.

Then again... We already know most major cities have tunnels, and most military bases have extensive tunnel systems.. it would just be connecting them.

My god where are these people getting these numbers!?!? Millennials I am guessing. Can't understand any other way this would be possible. 14000 divided by sixty divided by sixty is 3.8. wth are u guys talking about

Plenty of tunnels in the US. Vast underground areas carved out when the glaciers melted. There is a particularly huge number of them in Tennessee and throughout the Blue Ridge Mountains. And the Ozarks in Missouri and Arkansas has approximately 7,300 caves of various lengths.

A good chunk of the lower half of the US is riddled with caves, with a lot of them still unexplored.

That's where the Cryptoterrestrials hang out.

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

I was just replying to the numbers he gave me

a reply to: Jackfish28

I have it on good authority that the tunnels were originally drilled by the Annunaki and then further completed by the Knight's Templar after they completed the trans-atlantic tunnel from the Castle in Scotland to Oak Island.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

So... the beginnings of a underground rail transit system.

Interesting

UNDERGROUND BASES AND TUNNELS
by Richard Sauder, Ph.D., Adventures Unlimited Press Nuclear Subterrenes

The nuclear subterrene (rhymes with submarine) was designed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory, in New Mexico. A number of patents were filed by scientists at Los Alamos, a few federal technical documents were written - - and then the whole thing just sort of faded away. Or did it?

Nuclear subterrenes work by melting their way through the rock and soil, actually vitrifying it as they go, and leaving a neat, solidly glass-lined tunnel behind them.

The heat is supplied by a compact nuclear reactor that circulates liquid lithium from the reactor core to the tunnel face, where it melts the rock. In the process of melting the rock the lithium loses some of its heat.

It is then circulated back along the exterior of the tunneling machine to help cool the vitrified rock as the tunneling machine forces its way forward.

The cooled lithium then circulates back to the reactor where the whole cycle starts over.

In this way the nuclear subterrene slices through the rock like a nuclear powered, 2,000 degree Fahrenheit (Celcius?) - earthworm, boring its way deep underground. - The United States Atomic Energy Commission and the United States Energy Research and Development Administration took out Patents in the 1970s for nuclear subterrenes. - The first patent, in 1972 went to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. - The nuclear subterrene has an advantage over mechanical TBMs in that it produces no muck that must be disposed of by conveyors, trains, trucks, etc.

This greatly simplifies tunneling. If nuclear subterrenes actually exist (and I do not know if they do) their presence, and the tunnels they make, could be very hard to detect, for the simple reason that there would not be

the tell-tale MUCK PILES or tailings dumps that are associated with the conventional tunneling activities.

The 1972 patent makes this clear. It states:

".. (D)ebris may be disposed of as melted rock both as a lining for the hole and as a dispersal in cracks produced in the surrounding rock.

The rock-melting drill is of a shape and is propelled under sufficient pressure to produce and extend cracks in solid rock radially around the bore by means of hydrostatic pressure developed in the molten rock ahead of the advancing rock drill penetrator.

All melt not used in glass-lining the bore is forced into the cracks where it freezes and remains ... "

"... Such a (vitreous) lining eliminates, in most cases, the expensive and cumbersome problem of debris elimination and at the same time achieves the advantage of a casing type of bore hole liner." (US Patent No. 3,693,731, 26 Sep 1972)

A lot more about it
www.heartcom.org...

There is some underground bunker style areas and disconnected bases. There is not a super long below ground connection transit. If there were, you'd have breach openings, constantly.

It would be a big problem, not the initial constructions or anything like that, but the over time maintenance. At sizes and distances like that, seasonal thermal differences combined with orbit perturbations and typical earthquake and seismic activity would cause widespread cracking, damage, and expansion issues, resulting in gas pocket release and damage, surface evidence that would surely make the news, and the infrastructure of leakers and whistleblowers necessary to support a thread like this one, to the point that you can safely ignore detractors like myself.

It's just simply not the case, because the real secrets are vastly more interesting, and subsequently more secret. Enjoy your failed raid, and tunnel talk though. Just watch out, you might end up running into some bad fellows, like Big Foot, Cave Johnson, or the Tunnel Snakes.

originally posted by: Archivalist
There is some underground bunker style areas and disconnected bases. There is not a super long below ground connection transit. If there were, you'd have breach openings, constantly.

It would be a big problem, not the initial constructions or anything like that, but the over time maintenance. At sizes and distances like that, seasonal thermal differences combined with orbit perturbations and typical earthquake and seismic activity would cause widespread cracking, damage, and expansion issues, resulting in gas pocket release and damage, surface evidence that would surely make the news, and the infrastructure of leakers and whistleblowers necessary to support a thread like this one, to the point that you can safely ignore detractors like myself.

It's just simply not the case, because the real secrets are vastly more interesting, and subsequently more secret. Enjoy your failed raid, and tunnel talk though. Just watch out, you might end up running into some bad fellows, like Big Foot, Cave Johnson, or the Tunnel Snakes.

Not just seasonal heat. It's just naturally, surprisingly hot underground, and the lower you go the hotter you get. That's going to cause a lot of problems for anyone either traveling or living there.

I would think all that fracking would play hell with underground tunnels.

a reply to: Jackfish28

Yeah...I've heard there are approximately 75 underground cities.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Not just seasonal heat. It's just naturally, surprisingly hot underground, and the lower you go the hotter you get. That's going to cause a lot of problems for anyone either traveling or living there.

And yet cave systems are cold.

originally posted by: Archivalist
There is some underground bunker style areas and disconnected bases. There is not a super long below ground connection transit. If there were, you'd have breach openings, constantly.

It would be a big problem, not the initial constructions or anything like that, but the over time maintenance. At sizes and distances like that, seasonal thermal differences combined with orbit perturbations and typical earthquake and seismic activity would cause widespread cracking, damage, and expansion issues, resulting in gas pocket release and damage, surface evidence that would surely make the news, and the infrastructure of leakers and whistleblowers necessary to support a thread like this one, to the point that you can safely ignore detractors like myself.

It's just simply not the case, because the real secrets are vastly more interesting, and subsequently more secret. Enjoy your failed raid, and tunnel talk though. Just watch out, you might end up running into some bad fellows, like Big Foot, Cave Johnson, or the Tunnel Snakes.

And yet it is done

Since starting operation in 1905, the El Teniente mine south of Santiago, Chile, has only continued its expansion. Located in the in the Andes mountain range, the world's largest copper mine continues its growth by digging ever deeper to extend its productive life. Overall, the mine has nearly 2,000 miles of underground tunnels and almost 1,000 miles of underground roads.

www.popularmechanics.com...

With the SW area of the US being such a Seismic hotspot, as we have recently been reminded, I’d have thought building vast networks of tunnels would be frowned upon as potentially problematic, if not downright suicidal.

a reply to: Britguy

That is true and correct, however did you know that if properly built underground structures can be far more resilient than above ground structures.

Remember seismic event's shake object's and surface built structures are often built on the shallow foundations or else for larger building's down to the bed rock - but that bedrock may itself be a floating layer of rock above a layer of alluvial deposit but as long as it is stable enough?.

So as the ground shakes up and down and side to side these structures not only shake but can be shifted on there foundation's and by comparison a subterranean structure which is properly built and with earth quakes in mind would simply shake, the artificial cavern's could suffer cracks and if there is a weakness or fault running through them then they can collapse BUT if they are built with this in mind these areas would be reinforced in such a way as to minimise such collapse.

Then you have to factor in why these were built, what they were built for and whom is using them.

There are umpteen claim's about break away civilization, US MIC running amok and doing what it want's, claim's of elite getaways to survive a coming apocalypse perhaps of there own making if they fail in there attempt to kill off the human population through other control method's and even of non human entity's using these and I remember reading a claim that when one of the old cold war control centres was being built in the 1950's the contractors made use of PRE-EXISTING artificial tunnel's they found inside the mountain were they were building the site in what at first they had believed to be natural cavern's (but which may have been decayed ancient artificial cavern's as these more preserved tunnel's were supposedly once linked to them and were relinked once they expanded them), these tunnel's were supposedly ancient and build by someone else so not mine tunnel's but that is of course from a book so perhaps there is no evidence to back that urban legend part up.

But leaving the strange, perhaps implausible behind.

Yes they would build these for cold war reason's and just because the cold war ended did not mean that the apparatus set up to combat the soviets went away, on the contrary it remained and if anything since it was compartmentalized government it got stronger in particular as it was both a controlling element in the US MIC and also because it was a controlling element in the shadow government set up to combat the spread of socialism during the cold war and that grew beyond the control of any democratic government - and which still exists and if anything is even more powerful today.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Blue Shift

Not just seasonal heat. It's just naturally, surprisingly hot underground, and the lower you go the hotter you get. That's going to cause a lot of problems for anyone either traveling or living there.

And yet cave systems are cold.

Some caves near the surface are cooled by springs and get fresh air, but the lower you go, the hotter you get. That's just science.

a reply to: MindBodySpiritComplex

There are a number of threads, isn't there one about the Walmarts being turned into detention facilities (might be from 2008) with an underground tunnel system connecting them? People proposed these would be used to house people in a civil war but they're currently being used for migrants, as for the tunnel system... who knows.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Blue Shift

Not just seasonal heat. It's just naturally, surprisingly hot underground, and the lower you go the hotter you get. That's going to cause a lot of problems for anyone either traveling or living there.

And yet cave systems are cold.

Some caves near the surface are cooled by springs and get fresh air, but the lower you go, the hotter you get. That's just science.

I am pretty sure it has to do with the geography, the locations and weather in the area, the amount of groundwater and any geothermal actions.

Like mountaineers scaling a Himalaya peak, our expedition of 56 cavers from seven countries established a series of campsites at depths of 700, 1,215, 1,410, and 1,640 meters (2,300, 3,990, 4,600, and 5,380 feet). There team members cooked meals, slept five and six to a tent, huddled for warmth, and worked for up to 20 hours at a stretch.

www.nationalgeographic.com...

Hamilton Smith, Jr., and Edward B Dorsey. Mr. Smith said that the temperature of the earth varies very greatly at different localities and in different geological formations.

here are decided exceptions to the general law that the temperature increased with the depth. At the New Almaden quicksilver mine, in California, at a depth of about 600 feet the temperature was very high - some 115 degrees; but in the deepest part of the same mine, 1,800 feet below the surface and 500 feet below sea level, the temperature is very pleasant, probably less than 80 degrees.

At the Eureka mines, in California, the air 1,200 feet below the surface appears nearly as cool as 100 feet below the surface. The normal temperature of the earth at a depth of 50 or 60 feet is probably near the mean annual temperature of the air at the particular place.

chestofbooks.com...

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
I am pretty sure it has to do with the geography, the locations and weather in the area, the amount of groundwater and any geothermal actions.

Only down so far. If you keep going down, it's going to get hotter because the core is molten.
science.howstuffworks.com...