Who Goes to Heaven?

Who Goes To Heaven?

No need for anger or word games. Just a simple question for all to answer if they are interested in participating. Who Goes To Heaven is a question not very clear in most religions but I believe it is a worthy discussion. Your opinions are welcome without anger or animosity.

Where do we spend eternity? Now by [we] I mean all living entities and not just humans. In this study of James H. Charlesworth's edition of the 2nd book of Enoch is a opinion as well as a theological teaching of the understanding of the animal kingdom and their afterlife. I think we have argued for centuries of where humans go but very little is said of where the animals go.

As a small child I asked the same question as I ask today as an old man well into his nineties. Raising chickens and milking an old barnyard cow as a youngster brought lots of questions in my mind. I killed chickens and other animals for food and always wondered just where their life source went. The same question always haunted me as I found myself in the darkness of Europe as a young soldier. Do these who were murdered by the score have the same life sources?

“The 2nd book of Enoch is an amplification of Genesis 5:21-32.” Charlesworth tells us that by this is meant that these twenty manuscripts that comprise the 2nd book of Enoch actually tell us the life of Enoch from his birth to the great flood of Noah. So the 2nd book of Enoch is not a book of one pen or scribe but a combination of about twenty manuscripts of various authors and eras. Much likened to the New Testament of the Greek manuscripts with the exception that these Enochian manuscripts come down to us in the Slavonic Apocalypse of the late first century with some evidence of earlier Greek translations.

There are several recensions of this book which are most generally recognized as a longer and shorter version commonly noted as A [shorter version] and J [longer version]. In this rendition of Enoch’s three books is that of our animals and the question of their afterlife.

Most all people have been taught that an animal does not have an everlasting spirit but then this is questioned in Ecclesiastes 3:21. The book of Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon and by this I must take Solomon in consideration before I can go any further. Why so? Because God has declared and blessed Solomon and whatsoever God blesses He cannot do otherwise. God gave a special gift to Solomon as is told in 1 Kings 3:12.

1Ki 3:12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

But in all his wisdom Solomon did not know where the dead of both man and animal rested. Tradition tells us that Solomon pondered this greatly in his heart of where the life sources were in the deaths of creation. He spent much time in his quest for the answer and the answer was never to be given him. Solomon asked his academy of scholars but had no one to tell him and even in death he received no answer.

Solomon asked -------
Ecclesiastes 3:21 - Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Solomon received no answer from God or his academy of scholars but well over 1300 years earlier the answer had already been given to the human family through a man named Enoch. Why then did Solomon not know this troubling question? Was it because the flood of Noah had hidden this answer that was given to the man Enoch?

Enoch wrote in Enoch 2 [A] – “For the Lord made man the (lord) of all His possessions. Over them there will be no judgment for every living soul, but for (that of) man alone. For all the souls of the beasts there is in the great age a single place and a single paddock and a single pasture. For the souls of the animals which the Lord has created will not be excluded until the judgment. And all those souls will accuse (man) (until judgment). He who grazes the souls (of the beasts) commits iniquity against his own soul.”

Most folks will not accept this teaching because it is not included in most all religions. But in the first century, as Jesus was taken from us, His brother James [Jacob the Just], organized the very first Jesus movement known to the Christian world as the Nazarenes. These disciples of Jesus were given a house, which is known as the upper room, as their very first synagogue. This gift was given by the Apostle Mark to establish the first known place of study and worship of the Jesus movement. James the Just taught this that was written in the 2nd book of Enoch and taught many other wonderful things which most Christians were never taught.
Was the Apostle James right?

Seems as though you are confused, Christianity is not Judaism

a reply to: Raggedyman

Anyone who wants to go to heaven, will go there. One has to choose to go there when the portal opens, but I prefer to go wherever it will be dark and quiet. Nothing like a good eternity's rest to keep the nerves calm.

I dunno. Above my pay grade spiritually and intellectually. If it escaped Solomon I don't have a chance. But if I understood the above---you are in your nineties and posting on ATS? Cool. God Bless.

If my animals do not greet me upon entering the afterlife.

I certainly will not be heaven.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: Raggedyman

Anyone who wants to go to heaven, will go there. One has to choose to go there when the portal opens, but I prefer to go wherever it will be dark and quiet. Nothing like a good eternity's rest to keep the nerves calm.

Yeah but nah
It’s like an exclusive nightclub, you need to know the owner to get in, just can’t say I want to get in
If it was my night club you could say “I know Raggedy” and my staff would let you in but you better speak to Jesus, tell Him that you don’t know Raggedy, that might help

a reply to: Raggedyman

The question is kind of weird. See Some people who die are so good and right they get to go on in,but the majority of people will have to wait till the White throne judgement from what i understand.

I just know I will not be going to heaven, I am going to join into the supreme consciousness of the earth and observe what is happening in the lives of our offspring. Oh....at how I see things changing so much...that may just be hell.

I've always thought that animals had to have souls of a sort and reward after their own kind. It's plain to me that they're individuals much like we humans are. Now, biologically, there is no real reason for anything to have personality or individuality. Some of it can be explained through nurture, but not all. And it's that not all part that I think is the soul.

If it has a soul, that part lives on or can live on. And since animals mostly do what they do, living from day to day. They get their reward. They weren't given the choice like we were.

a reply to: rickymouse

Perfect!
I've been waiting for the perfect opportunity to post this.

a reply to: Seede

Personally I would say everyone... without exception

a reply to: Raggedyman

Seems as though you are confused, Christianity is not Judaism

Quite right. Christianity is not Judaism but Enoch was not a Jew. Enoch was an antediluvian. Simply because the Jews taught Enochian literature in Torah does not mean Enoch was a Jew. The same applies to early Christianity. Enochian literature was taught by some of the early Christian churches. Jude acknowledges Enoch in his letter. [Jude 14,15] --

Jude was a blood Jew also and the brother of both James and Jesus who were also blood Jews. James and Jude were
blood Jews but not named as Christians. James and his entire movement were Nararene's. Yes it is confusing at times to many people simply because the NT is actually a continuation of the OT and most will try to separate the two when in fact both OT and NT are hand and glove. We get involved in that name and blame game that confuses most all people who practice it.

a reply to: Akragon

It crosses my mind from time to time
that Universalists must think that
the Universe is a really big place.

a reply to: Seede

Maybe it depends on what one means by "heaven," but energy cannot die or be destroyed, it can only change form. Therefore, the life force of every animal -- that spark of divinity within us all -- must also change form and go somewhere.... and generally that "somewhere" is known as "heaven."

Jesus told us that our Father's home has many mansions, and He goes to prepare a room for us. No reason Jesus cannot be preparing "rooms" for the critters and creatures.... albeit without walls!

In any event, I'm pretty sure God and Heaven have this figured out -- even if we don't!

a reply to: Seede

This is a fantastic little book that helps to answer your question based on Biblical verses.

"All animals go to Heaven. How do we know? We look in the book that God left us, the Bible. This book takes you through the Bible and proves through the scriptures that there is life after death for all the animals. It covers: God s relationship with the animals. The current life of the animal kingdom. The future life of the animals and its restoration. What animals are currently in Heaven? The topic of whether animals have souls and spirits. Includes numerous Bible scriptures, opinions and commentaries from Bible Theologians, visions, stories, near-death experiences of children, and personal experiences. Reviews many of the original Greek and Hebrew words and their translations."
www.amazon.com...=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i1
There is Eternal Life for Animals byNiki Behrikis Shanahan

a reply to: Seede

Who Goes To Heaven?

all dogs go to heaven.

since the pope stated that Hell didn't exist does everything go to heaven? Since the Devil is pretty much a newer version of Pan (explains our pathetic war on nature) maybe a lot will just sit in purgatory.

a reply to: Seede

That is just ignorant, base ignorant
The New Testament is not a continuation of the Old, nothing even remotely like it at all.
I am guessing that you meant to say James and Jude were “Nazarenes” not “Nanarenes” ?And that’s just a title for people who followed Jesus the Nazarene, man from Nazareth.

I am not sure what you are implying saying James and Jude were Nazarenes, they were Christians who converted from Judaism, followers of Jesus of Nazareth, followers of The Nazarene.
I would need evidence if you want me to believe otherwise because the bible does not indicate James and Jude were in a different sect

The Old Testament is Mosaic law, saved by works the New Testament is Christ’s covenant, saved by grace and faith not works
The Old Testament is all about Jesus, the promise of The Messiah arriving and ending religion, ending Judaism

There is no continuation between Old and New outside of the Jesus narrative
The New Testament is 4 Gospels, Acts of the apostles and letters to churches, it’s not a single book at all.

The only confusion here is you

a reply to: Raggedyman

Originally posted by Raggedyman
It’s like an exclusive nightclub, you need to know the owner to get in, just can’t say I want to get in
If it was my night club you could say “I know Raggedy” and my staff would let you in but you better speak to Jesus, tell Him that you don’t know Raggedy, that might help

So I just need to know the owner…And That’s IT!!!...And I'm in regardless...?

So if I live a bad life, treat people like crap, drink heavily and do lots of other bad negative stuff…I'm getting in anyway, because hey…I know the owner…

Btw “night club" seems like a strange comparison to use… that's where all the booze and loose women hang out lol…

- JC

Simple math

Good actions for my god + denial of your god * money I give to church / my sins according to Religionfordummy = redemption and ticket for front row to watch apocalypse banging the different people I'm scared of.

Oh and all this for love. Dam right I forgot sorry my bad. Mea culpa mea maxima culpa.