Who Goes to Heaven?

a reply to: Akragon
I won't?? Sure, it was right after he said he has come to enforce the old law in Matthew 5:17, not to abolish the old law.

16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be subject to the fire of hell. 23Therefore if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. 25Reconcile quickly with your adversary, while you are still on the way to court. Otherwise he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny. 27You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to depart into hell. 31It has also been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, brings adultery upon her. And he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. 33Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill your vows to the Lord.’ 34But I tell you not to swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35or by the earth, for it is His footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

Tell us again we won't find it in the bible? I just found it in the bible, linked it, and you can read it in nearly two dozen different versions from the link I provided.

Now with that said, we all, those who allegedly call ourselves Christian (not I btw) have always said Jesus word is the truth. Except in any case where it would cause a hypocrite to sacrifice anything of themselves in an effort to avoid temptation and sin. Then we can make our own interpretations as to what Jesus meant, and speak on his behalf to avoid confronting he matter.

I have not called myself Christian in some time, primarily because I now sincerely believe whoever Jesus was, it is likely he was a representative of a more advanced civilization, whether from the heavens, another dimension, or inside the Earth itself. I suspect extra-terrestrial origin myself. I mean #, there is descriptions in the book of Ezekiel that describe pretty much exactly the view of a Space X Falcon 9 making a return landing. Spaceships man, he was talking about a spaceship. Noah's ark was more likely a gene bank, which would much more realistically explain how he could get two of every animal on Earth on a boat.

Alien Jesus will return, or I should say the organization/empire/Federation He/It represented in the past. Its not your soul or good deeds they will be looking for, its Gold and Hydrogen they want!

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Well I said "Jesus didn't say that"... but apparently he did...lol

Guess im a bit rusty on my bible... its been quite a while since I've discussed such things

I tend to avoid it these days honestly... *shrug*

a reply to: Akragon
It is my opinion, dare I say maybe even belief, that What we believe Jesus is based on the Bible, si different from real Jesus, and anything relating to this concept of heaven as written is completely unrelated to the truth of the matter.

As it stands, anyone can choose to go to heaven, and no matter how I say this it still bears true. If we are going by the bible, anybody can choose to follow the instructions carefully and proceed to heaven if they did it right. Going by my theory of "go wherever the # you want, including reincarnation at time of death as a humanoid or plant/animal/insect or live inside of stars as energy" one could still choose to go to heaven.

I often wonder if heaven was nothing more than an intentionally mistranslated journey of our energy into the stars themselves, for being within them would be the same as residing within purity of light ever lasting and inescapable even. A realm of light where no shadow or tint of darkness could exist. There are various descriptions of events that can appear exactly like modern technology, not unlike the Indus Valley civilization epics such as the Mahabharata and their near textbook like description of nuclear weapons and war, including accurate descriptions of their effects as well as various combat aerial vehicles and missile capabilities. Of course all of these is bundled as the acts of God-Kings, kind of like the miracles of Jesus. I find it more likely that Jesus reattached the soldiers ear with a type of genetic stem-cell laser tool that we are still generations from developing, but not too far off. His walking on water could be explained in various ways, including an actual hover-board, or an exaggeration as he walk through shallow water. Most likely could have been a projection, as with the right amount of money I could project a now dead person over water and to anyone not remotely familiar with laser technology, or electricity for that matter would literally be seeing a man walk on water. A Dead man at that!

The Earth only needs a couple hundred years to recover most traces of any civilization after institutions have fallen. In that same time period, generation of humans are not being educated or taught, but simply surviving. That leads to information of the past getting concentrated within a handful of smart guys who understand the dynamics of power. These guys, with the knowledge of the Gods, as far as the uneducated ignorant masses born into a new age are concerned, pave the way of their bloodlines ruling for centuries or longer while they are worshiped as God-Kings.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Umm Matthew is telling the hebrews they are under the OT law there. Christians are under NT grace. And this is how the law is kept relevant as well as the simple version for gentiles under grace.

a reply to: yuppa
yea but, it really does not matter because nobody is actually following anything. Maybe the Orthodox comes close. Not in any significant numbers, most the souls are still going to hell whether we NT or OT it because nobody is actually following it in their hearts! Where are people's hearts when they vote for their representatives? That vote is choice and intent. It also comes with consequences. Consequences which can be weighed when your vying for your ticket at the pearly gates.

Prepare like the Ferengi, and be ready to buy your way into anything with some gold pressed latinum.

originally posted by: glend
Where do we spend eternity?

Not in a night club apparently. Wasn't Mary Mag... an alleged prostitute? Didn't they run off to Europe and sire the leaders? In the Gospel of Thomas, curiously left out of the bible did Jesus (or hey-Zeus as an every non-English speaking Christians pronounce it) say "Do not follow me" Wars and blood will be spilt in my name?" tangent over If she was wouldn't a night club be exactly what we should expect. Maybe Hugh's running it now? I mean with being all powerful can you imagine how spectacular that club would be. One room has techno music one room has disco one room has polka heck there might even be a room where you can wear magic under pants. Anyways maybe heaven is another realm we go to after escaping our earthly prison I mean technically we were created as slaves for the Nephilim or Annunaki? Perhaps in the next realm we create our own reality? What happens when their giant planet ship Niburu comes back? Do our souls leave this shell and move into a better one?

a reply to: CrazyFox

Where do we spend eternity?

Honestly... as long as im not sitting around listening to church hymns... im good

That would be hell..

a reply to: Akragon

"Keepers of the Garden" is a great book, mind gets blown, best explanation I have read. It's by Dolores something

a reply to: CrazyFox

actually the gospels tell you everything you need to know... IMHO

a reply to: Seede

You are recycled somewhere. If not earth, somewhere else. Heaven is a place of review. That white light you see is the birth canal and that few seconds you spend in death is a different reality where a few seconds of time could be an eternity depending on how much of your life you have to review and trouble you got yourself into.

Then you actually choose to pay off your karma debt by going back and living in a way that you suffer for your past life Karma. So if you were an alcoholic and you abused your wife and children, you will come back as a woman or a child in that type of life. If you were a murderer, maybe you get murdered yourself or maybe a loved one gets murdered and you feel that grief. Just imagine the debt of Ted Bundy or Gacy.

This guy has some great theories. I have read a few of his books and it makes sense to me.

I just don't believe the fire and brimstone theory where we are judged for this one life and we go straight to hell for rubbing one out or whatever. We are designed to have free will. Free will is an awesome gift but with that we are going to screw up.

Or there is nothing. Or we are a product of aliens and the elite are lizard people. Or.. ect..

I should be working right now..

a reply to: Scifi2424

What is you?
The body, the thoughts or that which is witnessing what is appearing?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Text The kingdom is not the central point of Christianity , you can’t even tell me what heaven is. Again, Jesus is the central point

The kingdom of heaven was foretold in Isaiah well over 600 years before Jesus was born.

Isaiah 65:17-18 – [entire chapters 65 and 66] 1611 KJV
(17) For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
(18) But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

Revelation 21:10-11 – [entire chapters 21 and 22] 1611 KJV
(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
(11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

After reading with understanding the verses before and after the ones I have posted, you will then understand more of what I have said concerning the NT as being a continuation of the OT. Here it is plainly shown that the Apostle John is verifying Isaiah as to the new heavens and new earth.

Today’s universal secular science has now agreed that this universe is expanding. It has been parroted before but is now the scientific acceptance that the universe is expanding at a great rate of our understanding. But in accepting this as academia it has created another and greater problem. That problem is the question as to what this universe is expanding into.

The expansion is not that of which we understand as a balloon. The expansion is directed to the universal North. The Northern portion of the universe is unfinished and the expansion is directed only to the opening of this universal North. Now the ancients of astrology have always understood that the universe is as a pot with a heaven as the lid. This heaven was understood in the NT as the dwelling place of the first celestial creation and also contains the celestial city of New Jerusalem and its new heaven and earth. This third heaven and its city of New Jerusalem is also where the trees and water of eternal life are located. This is the kingdom of heaven that Jesus preached in His ministry.

a reply to: Scifi2424

You are recycled somewhere. If not earth, somewhere else. Heaven is a place of review. That white light you see is the birth canal and that few seconds you spend in death is a different reality where a few seconds of time could be an eternity depending on how much of your life you have to review and trouble you got yourself into.

Then what you are saying is that you reincarnate from a heaven. Let me ask you! If secular science is right and the world eventually is destroyed by the sun, does that end your reincarnation or do you find another place to reincarnate? Also, then the entire NT and OT is hog wash?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Scifi2424

What is you?
The body, the thoughts or that which is witnessing what is appearing?

You is the soul is what I think..

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Scifi2424

You are recycled somewhere. If not earth, somewhere else. Heaven is a place of review. That white light you see is the birth canal and that few seconds you spend in death is a different reality where a few seconds of time could be an eternity depending on how much of your life you have to review and trouble you got yourself into.

Then what you are saying is that you reincarnate from a heaven. Let me ask you! If secular science is right and the world eventually is destroyed by the sun, does that end your reincarnation or do you find another place to reincarnate? Also, then the entire NT and OT is hog wash?

The OT & NT are just books written by man just like any other books. I suspect the OT & NT were re-written many times over too. I wouldn't say they are hogwash. Not here to insult any books or beliefs. No one knows for sure unless you die. From what I have read, we don't just reincarnate on earth and we are not limited to human form. We go other places. Earth is not the center of the universe. If earth is destroyed, we would go somewhere else I guess.

I admit, I could be totally wrong and you could be right about whatever. Would I go to hell? Not buying it. I think God has many different things going on and we are just one of his many projects. I also think he is hands off and lets us do as we will. We are here to learn, screw up, fix ourselves, ect.

It really is a gift to exist. I hope I am right and I can come back or go wherever many times and do many things..

a reply to: CrazyFox

You don't have to be religious to be in the night club. Our true spiritual nature is already in a state of perfection (aka in Gods image) in the timeless void but we need attain that state in our sensations, though this life and many others, before we can awaken. So Jesus in Gospel of Thomas is saying he stirred the pot. Creating a a richer atmosphere for people to experience all that they need to experience, before wakening.

Only those that have lost all their egoistical desires (aka snake in Garden of Eden) will be allowed to pass the gateless gates. From which they will experience more worlds (dimensions) allowing higher and higher levels of perfection. So I wouldn't concern myself with whats in the night club. That's at the end of a very long path.

a reply to: glend

May I comment glend?
Our true spiritual nature is already in a state of perfection (aka in Gods image) in the timeless void but we need attain that state in our sensations, though this life and many others, before we can awaken.

How can this be? Are you saying that the soul is in a state of perfection? I would understand that to mean that procreation can be a perfect state when we are well aware that procreation is never a perfect state. All of that which is procreated must perish regardless of its degree of purity. Procreation is not in the likeness of God anymore because procreation has been cursed. That is the reason for death. Procreated life as well an inanimate life fell from the perfect state because earth is a curse and must perish as earth. We all are of the earth both animate and inanimate.

It is the Spirit of man that is capable of God's grace and must be judged while the image of man must perish. Even in your religion it is the Spirit that is judged as to whether the Spirit must reincarnate or graduate to a higher estate. Judgment is required and not a choice of the Spirit. It is the Spirit that requires perfection and not the image and after all terrestrial image of life has perished it will be the purity that will either survive or likewise perish in judgment. LOL

a reply to: Seede

"procreation is never a perfect state"

But we are not our earthly body. Our true nature is spiritual, the remainder is meaningless dust no. If an apple is also dust what does it matter if dust eats dust?

Genesis tells us that Man (male is our spiritual image) was created in Gods image. If God is perfect then so is our image, no? In the world of infinity (presume christian heaven) there is no sense of time. Everything exist in its final state. The fall was ordained by God (nothing can move without his will) so we can experience all that can be experienced in this life and countless others in our sensations. So we can realise the state of perfection in our spiritual self (divine will to know thyself). This is said to be akin to sleeping. When we awaken we will realise that these worlds were nothing but a dream.

This view is not derived from my religion (Buddhism) which is only concerned with awakening. Its my understanding from reading Judiasm/Kabbalah, Hinduism sources. The Buddha remained silent when asked what happens after awakening. I surmise that our minds are truly unable to grasp our true nature. Perhaps akin to an ant trying to fathom the workings of a nuclear power plant. So I only parrot things that I have read.

But from experiences in deep meditation I can really relate to following....

The eye with which I see God is the same with which God sees me.
My eye and God's eye is one eye, and one sight, and one knowledge, and one love.
Meister Eckhart (Christian)

a reply to: glend

But we are not our earthly body. Our true nature is spiritual, the remainder is meaningless dust no.

You wrote - “Genesis tells us that Man (male is our spiritual image) was created in Gods image. If God is perfect then so is our image, no?"

Not so in my understanding. Our spiritual force has no terrestrial image in death. We only have an image in terrestrial life. In death the terrestrial image returns to its source and the spiritual likeness returns to its source. If the image returns to its source and that source is cursed then it no longer is of God. Was not the earth cursed for the sake of sin?

1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

You say “The fall was ordained by God (nothing can move without his will) so we can experience all that can be experienced in this life and countless others in our sensations.”

Not well understood. God has a perfect will and a permissive will but no other will to cover all offenses. Both are His will but one is an escape of grace. What is the sense of punishment if the offense is not recognized by the offender? Would that not be senseless? One could reincarnate many times in total ignorance if that be true. All offenses are not of God’s grace.

a reply to: Seede

Was not the earth cursed for the sake of sin?

Up until Genesis 8:21;

One could reincarnate many times in total ignorance if that be true.

Perhaps you should reconsider the implications of "The eye with which I see God is the same with which God sees me" ... Meister Eckhart (Christian) or the Kingdom of God is within you.

But does it really matter if we are wrong about scripture. Understanding scripture at the level of mind does not make us spiritual. We can only attain spirituality though prayer and meditation.