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Who Goes to Heaven?

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posted on May, 26 2019 @ 10:40 PM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Raggedyman



Originally posted by Raggedyman
It’s like an exclusive nightclub, you need to know the owner to get in, just can’t say I want to get in
If it was my night club you could say “I know Raggedy” and my staff would let you in but you better speak to Jesus, tell Him that you don’t know Raggedy, that might help


So I just need to know the owner…And That’s IT!!!...And I'm in regardless...?

So if I live a bad life, treat people like crap, drink heavily and do lots of other bad negative stuff…I'm getting in anyway, because hey…I know the owner…

Btw “night club" seems like a strange comparison to use… that's where all the booze and loose women hang out lol…

- JC




You can take that a million ways and then some but the bible says very clearly

Luke 13:25
After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, 'Lord, open the door for us.' But he will reply, 'I do not know where you are from.'

So if you know Jesus you won’t live a bad life or at least try not to live a bad life

As for the nightclub analogy, wow, sorry to offend your religiosity, it’s fundamentalists like you who are all nit picky and complainy about every little thing, it’s an analogy, it’s not really a nightclub, not a true story, it’s ok, you are not being forced to go to a nightclub




posted on May, 26 2019 @ 10:50 PM
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Where do we spend eternity?

Our souls will take the karmic route to heaven. Whilst leaving behind our 100 billion neuron powered head, which many consider, is the real I.



posted on May, 27 2019 @ 01:54 AM
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a reply to: Seede

E arthlings

A waiting

R apture

T empt

H ell.

We all can and will if only we put down our guns, knifes, ideologies, etc and pick up on acceptance, equality, peace, etc.

Here's hoping.



posted on May, 27 2019 @ 07:36 AM
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"Heaven"(and the Christian hell) is a concept that predates both Christianity and Judaism. In Egypt for example, it was believed Osiris went to "heaven" after his resurrection. The Egyptians believed the dead were taken to the judgement hall on high and either received into heaven or sent to hell to the "devouress". Link Note the link is for reference only, and not represented as a definitive source.

In this respect, Christianity actually reflects more of an Egyptian theology than Judaism does, since Judaism doesn't include the Christian hell. Link

Who gets to go to heaven? I guess it depends on which god you worship, and whether the god you don't believe in is bigger than the one you do.

edit on 5/27/2019 by Klassified because: re-word



posted on May, 27 2019 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea


Maybe it depends on what one means by "heaven," but energy cannot die or be destroyed, it can only change form. Therefore, the life force of every animal -- that spark of divinity within us all -- must also change form and go somewhere.... and generally that "somewhere" is known as "heaven."

I agree. Heaven is very controversial isn't it? Hebrews 11:5 tells us that Enoch did not die but was translated. Yet in my understanding, translation here means change but what change is really not known. Going back to Solomon, Solomon did not understand heaven either. He assumed that both Elijah and Enoch were taken up to heaven but actually he didn't really know. Why the confusion?

The confusion was in their understanding of afterlife. Judaic religion was slowly changing and was influenced by what the majority could accept. At one time in early Judaism the living would converse with the dead and even feed the dead. After a slow transformation of many years it became more fashionable to simply put all of the dead in containment in the earth. This evolved into the Judaic acceptance of the separation of good and bad spirits in Sheol.

This is where we find Judaism as Jesus came upon the scene. All of the dead were together in Sheol of assigned chambers. Luke describes this in Luke 16:19-31. So heaven is not opened to everyone at this point according to Luke. Prior to Jesus and in the days of Samuel we can see where the Witch of Endor brought the dead Samuel up from Sheol. The Witch did not bring Samuel down from heaven but up from Sheol. This shows the belief of Luke as he tells us that Sheol was part of Judaism 890 years before Jesus and heaven was not available to mankind.

So the kingdom of the Christ Jesus was not offered to us till after His covenant was sealed in His death. Now that still leaves Enoch questionable as to whether he was taken up or down. You can now see why Solomon was so confused. The kingdom of heaven was not offered to the justified spirits till after the death of Jesus but could have been offered to Enoch.



posted on May, 27 2019 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: hiddeninsite

Thanks for the input. Will get the book for a read. Thanks again lol



posted on May, 27 2019 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman


That is just ignorant, base ignorant The New Testament is not a continuation of the Old, nothing even remotely like it at all. I am guessing that you meant to say James and Jude were “Nazarenes” not “Nanarenes” ?And that’s just a title for people who followed Jesus the Nazarene, man from Nazareth.


Yes you are correct. I did misspell Nazarene and apologize for that sin. And now as I said in my OP, “no need for anger or word games.” Simply a discussion and you are correct that this is my opinion just as you have your opinion.

Yes the word game which means little because we have no autographs to compare.
The very reason I will not waste my time in bantering words about. Christian is bantered about even though it was used in Acts 11:26 and Acts 26:28. But in academia the word game changes somewhat as the Roman offshoots began to multiply. This is exactly why I do not want to get into a word game. The name Nazarene is understood by scholars as to define the first Jesus movement as a unique group of the doctrine of the Christ Jesus. I believe that explains my opinion.

Continuation of the entire Judaic structure and culture was not interrupted by the ministry of Jesus. There was no conversion from the commands of any Nazarenes. They all obeyed the commands of the Sinai convention the same as Moses had written. Even Jesus obeyed all of the Sinai commands and had not changed any of the Judaic structure in His doctrines.

The entire Judaic organization simply went on from before Jesus was born till decades after Jesus died. The same land, the same Hebrews, the same streets and houses, the same temple authority, the same people of the same DNA. Nothing changed except the minds of some who accepted the man Jesus as the Christ. They professed to be the children of Abraham and the seed of the Sinai commands. Even the Nazarenes embraced the commands of God and Abraham. Nothing really changed except for a few people who adopted the name Nazarenes.

Jesus stated through John ---
John_5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.



posted on May, 27 2019 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

Klass you do know Christianity came from Judaism, Judaism didn't have an afterlife or remained silent over it
Jesus died was ressurected and said that humanity would be with Him when they died, how more distinct can that be from Egyption beliefs

Christianity didn't establish an afterlife til Jesus spoke of it, totally unrelated to what you claim.

If you deny Jesus was a real man and what He taught was not real either then fair enough but it's a bit disengenuos



posted on May, 27 2019 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: Seede

I don't care if you misspelled Nazarene I asked you to clarify it so I wasn't assuming.
Using the Rich man analogy/parable of the afterlife, that's funny

Anyway
The bible is not as clear as you suggest on many contentious issues, Nazarene was just a follower of Cnrist and much of the faith was being formed and understood when James was leading the church, you make many assumptions and as usual strain the gnat but swallow the camel.
The term Christian was a sledge, an insult to followers of Christ in Rome, Rome being the world capital, Christian as a title caught on there and Nazarene as a title dropped off, it's just word games for you

You argue bitterly small detail and ignore the message, the message that was Jesus and salvation comes from Him and not little details you argue

The Mosaic law ended for those in Jesus Christ, Christians are adopted into the Christ covenant where the Mosaic law becomes redundant

Again and I can't stress it enough, you argue petty detail and ignore Jesus. Jesus doesn't care about the law, Jesusnwants a contrite loving serving heart



posted on May, 28 2019 @ 01:51 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

I like that nobody plucks out their eye or cuts off their hand if it tempts them into sin. I like that Jesus said to do those violent things to yourself, but nobody actually does them. Why does nobody do as Jesus commanded to save their souls from temptation and sin?



posted on May, 28 2019 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: worldstarcountry

Well... Jesus didn't say those things first off..

Someone in the middle east a few thousand years ago said it... and it was written down a few thousand years later...




posted on May, 28 2019 @ 02:39 AM
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a reply to: Akragon
So then, your saying Jesus never spoke, or never even existed??



posted on May, 28 2019 @ 04:52 AM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Seede

Maybe it depends on what one means by "heaven," but energy cannot die or be destroyed, it can only change form. Therefore, the life force of every animal -- that spark of divinity within us all -- must also change form and go somewhere.... and generally that "somewhere" is known as "heaven."

This that is here always is energy changing form...... the energy is not divided into separate things... it is this... complete and whole.
This is heaven....and it is hiding in plain sight.

No one will go to heaven..... because there is no thing separate.

The 'who' is an illusion..... there is no thing.....Just this.

No-thing goes anywhere...... this is simply changing form.

Emptiness is form. Form is emptiness.


edit on 28-5-2019 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2019 @ 05:28 AM
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originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: Raggedyman

I like that nobody plucks out their eye or cuts off their hand if it tempts them into sin. I like that Jesus said to do those violent things to yourself, but nobody actually does them. Why does nobody do as Jesus commanded to save their souls from temptation and sin?


Because that would be stupid
There is a word called “hyperbole” do you know what that means, do you know that people have always had a sense of humour

I am sorry for religious fundamentalists like you, you make all Christians look bad by being an ignorant an uneducated Christian
Please leave whatever church you attend and attend a church that teaches Christianity rather than stupidity😁😬😂



posted on May, 28 2019 @ 05:30 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: worldstarcountry

Well... Jesus didn't say those things first off..

Someone in the middle east a few thousand years ago said it... and it was written down a few thousand years later...



You wouldn’t happen to have any evidenced would you Ak, you know, outside of your opinion.
Because when it comes to valid opinions I don’t rate that many

Not really inclined to believe you



posted on May, 28 2019 @ 05:47 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Sure...

The entire religion is based out of said area... and you will not find any thing in the gospels saying Jesus wants you to poke out your eyes...lol




posted on May, 28 2019 @ 05:48 AM
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originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: Akragon
So then, your saying Jesus never spoke, or never even existed??


lol

That isn't even close to what I said




posted on May, 28 2019 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Sure...

The entire religion is based out of said area... and you will not find any thing in the gospels saying Jesus wants you to poke out your eyes...lol



Seems I am not the only one confused by your opinion.
Jesus made some very large claims
Some nonsensical because sometimes when a person teaches they use nonsense

www.voiceofjesus.org...

But it seems you want to make nonsense statements, nonsense as a teaching tool, you want to make them a reality or worse, deny Jesus used humour, Jesus said what was recorded by His peers because “you can’t believe it”
That means everything you disagree with is wrong because your opinion is contradicted by a written word, you can’t accept others opinions
Pretty arrogant



posted on May, 28 2019 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman


TextAnyway The bible is not as clear as you suggest on many contentious issues, Nazarene was just a follower of Cnrist and much of the faith was being formed and understood when James was leading the church, you make many assumptions and as usual strain the gnat but swallow the camel. The term Christian was a sledge, an insult to followers of Christ in Rome, Rome being the world capital, Christian as a title caught on there and Nazarene as a title dropped off, it's just word games for you

opps! I believe you mean Christ and not Cnrist. But that is only a human mistake isn't it?

Now back to our discussion. James was leading the synagogue and not a church. The church of Jesus had not as yet been formed. Why should I believe that? Because all people who believe in Jesus are born into one spirit in the Church of the Christ Jesus. Regardless of race or color or culture, all are equally accepted as justified spirits in His kingdom. Naturally there are degrees of rewards in judgments of the dead but all justified spirits do become citizens of the kingdom of heaven.

In the Jerusalem synagogue of the Jesus movement this was not so. The entire congregation was forbidden to use anything that was not approved as Hebrew/Aramaic. The Hellenists were allowed their own synagogues but were forbidden to assemble or influence the James synagogue. James was the High Priest or Nasi while his deputy High Priest [Sagan] was the apostle John and the chief officer of the high court [Ab Beth-Din] was the Apostle Peter. This was patterned after the Jerusalem Temple and had complete Hebrew Liturgy. It was absolutely segregated in all respects and was not the church of Jesus.

I do not regard a discussion of heaven as being a small detail. Death is a permanent and frightful event for many people and should be openly discussed for everyone. Heaven is not the camel that you so rudely insist i swallow. The kingdom of heaven is the central importance of life and without it Christianity becomes moot.

If you could be more detailed in your posts it would help to answer specifically what you are trying to say. Mostly you generalize a spiel of anger and unclear accusations. LOL



posted on May, 28 2019 @ 04:42 PM
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a reply to: Seede

The kingdom is not the central point of Christianity , you can’t even tell me what heaven is.
Again, Jesus is the central point
The only angry person here is you, moaning about grammar.

The bible is not one book, the New Testament is 4 Gospels and many letters written to individual churches detailing local issues.
The Old Testament, Mosaic laws are over for Christ followers, they do not encompass Christianity

I have seen no evidence that the early James run church was segregated as you suggest and asked for evidence
A person does not need perfect theology, a perfect church to be a Christian, Nazarene was an early title for Christian, simple




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