Another night of Brexit drama

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Would you say Zambia or China (et al) are any more or any less corrupt than the EU?

If we buy stuff from either of those nations or businesses registered in them, how would their governments be involved in any of those transactions? Would either have the power to dictate what we buy or when?

a reply to: ScepticScot

I thought that 'Leave means Leave'.

FFS, its like talking to my 8year old grandson.

I really thought you were far better than that.

We leave the EU.
We still have many shared interests; intelligence, defence etc.

We still recognise the benefits of a Free Trade Agreement and so would try to negotiate a mutually beneficial deal AFTER Brexit.

Surely there's nothing contentious about that, its all pretty simple and perfectly reasonable....except to those trying their best to cause issue where there isn't one.

a reply to: Freeborn

The worlds mover on since 1975, the whole world is growing smaller and barriers have come down. Whole continenets are joing together to make blocs, it is almost a new period of empire like that of old, there is no room for little countries lurking on their own in this era of powerful trading blocs. We are making a massive mistake if we believe that we are better out of a bloc than within it when we already have the best deal possible

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot

I thought that 'Leave means Leave'.

FFS, its like talking to my 8year old grandson.

I really thought you were far better than that.

We leave the EU.
We still have many shared interests; intelligence, defence etc.

We still recognise the benefits of a Free Trade Agreement and so would try to negotiate a mutually beneficial deal AFTER Brexit.

Surely there's nothing contentious about that, its all pretty simple and perfectly reasonable....except to those trying their best to cause issue where there isn't one.

Yes we have a lot of shared intrests and benefit enormously from being in the Single Market.

Which is why we should be in The EU as a rule maker and not being dictated to as a third party the wants the benefits but will have no say in how it's run.

The idea that we can leave and some how get a better deal is just fantasy thinking I'm afraid.

And chill out. It was a throw away comment about your post about being ok with the common market. Nothing posted here changes anything that is going to happen.

originally posted by: teapot
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Would you say Zambia or China (et al) are any more or any less corrupt than the EU?

If we buy stuff from either of those nations or businesses registered in them, how would their governments be involved in any of those transactions? Would either have the power to dictate what we buy or when?

But they are not our neighbours are they? All trade requires a little greasing of the parms in one way or other, it just how things work in the real world. Anyway why on Earth would we want to replace our neighbours for free trade with states the other side of the world, it's total jingoistic madness......................... It's like you deciding to stop using your local Tescos to buy your fruit and instead go up to the Shetlands to buy them instead, it's madness total madness and I wonder what happened to common sense in our once great nation. Is someone meddling with our water supply?

a reply to: ScepticScot

I'm as chilled as can possibly be, no probs.

I've yet to hear a valid reason why post-Brexit we can not negotiate a mutually beneficial Free Trade Agreement.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

All rhetoric and very little substance.
In my opinion absolutely no valid reason for political union.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot

I'm as chilled as can possibly be, no probs.

I've yet to hear a valid reason why post-Brexit we can not negotiate a mutually beneficial Free Trade Agreement.

There is absolutely no reason we can't (it would make a lot more sense to have done it before we leave)

However a trade deal is not the same as being in the Single Market and will not give the same benefits.

a reply to: Freeborn

I was hoping Macron had the balls to veto the decision last night forcing no deal exit, as he threatened multiple times.
No deal would force swift agreement and temporary arrangements or there would be absolute chaos. A transition arrangement could easily be agreed between EU/UK until free trade or tariffs were decided on.

Stick tariffs on us then German cars will be stung badly for a start, it would even out.
It is tit for tat, both sides know it and know that they are forced to trade in a no deal situation or both will suffer.

Tariffs or free trade I'm easy, plenty of other nations we can buy cheaper oranges from for example, only takes 3 weeks or so to cross the atlantic in containers.
The doom porn is strong in remainers, and too often their ideas of the future is presented as fact.

I agree there WILL be winners and losers in the short term, but in the medium to long term I passionately believe the UK will prosper as a free independent nation trading with all our world neighbours.
...also providing the same opportunity of immigration and work to people from all countries, not positively discriminating towards 27 mostly white nations.

I don't think it will happen now though, May is the weakest negotiator I can think of and I see us leaving the EU in name only. If in 20 years we find ourselves as a mere region of the EU and turns out to have been a mistake then I shall at least know it was not my fault.

a reply to: ScepticScot

What other 'benefits' do we need or want other than a Free Trade Agreement?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot

What other 'benefits' do we need or want other than a Free Trade Agreement?

A free trade agreement is just a generic term that means there is some agreement to reduce barriers to trade such as custom duties.

The single market is most largest & comprehensive area of its type. It creates a near seamless market across the entire EU for goods and to a lesser but increasing level for services.

No deal we are going to get out with the Single Market is going to give near the same level of economic benefit.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot

What other 'benefits' do we need or want other than a Free Trade Agreement?

No deal we are going to get out with the Single Market is going to give near the same level of economic benefit.

That may or may not be the case, an interesting opinion nonetheless.
Don't forget the porential benefits of cheaper goods from other markets around the world...absolutely hungry to sell us their wares.

You believe it will be doom while I believe doom can be avoided because the EU knows both parties will suffer without agreement. Again, tariffs or free trade agreement, I'm easy, but I voted leave knowing full well the possibility of short term problems and challenges. The remain campaign spelled it out clearly, and anyone who didn't know it clearly didn't read the remain leaflets etc etc...I am happy to own my informed leave vote.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Yes Mark Carney PhD in conomics who has been head of 2 central banks and has some of the best economists in the world working for him to provide independent assessment of the risks of brexit.

I know we are meant to have had 'enough of expert's but sometimes expertise goes a long way.

Hmmn....Yes and there was Fred Goodwin (Fred the shred) another banker

from your neck of the woods too.


Being bankers and having PhD's doesn't exempt them from lying cheating and

twisting the truth if it suits their agenda.


The former Bank of England governor Mervyn King says "UK should leave EU

with NO deal" and "Theresa May's deal is like an appeasement"


So who's right

I'll put my money on Mervyn King .... he doesn't keep changing his mind .

a reply to: Freeborn

It isn't working that way in practice though. The UK has been removed from EY Intel, Sci and Defense over security issues.

originally posted by: SerenTheUniverse

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ScepticScot

What other 'benefits' do we need or want other than a Free Trade Agreement?

No deal we are going to get out with the Single Market is going to give near the same level of economic benefit.

That may or may not be the case, an interesting opinion nonetheless.
Don't forget the porential benefits of cheaper goods from other markets around the world...absolutely hungry to sell us their wares.

You believe it will be doom while I believe doom can be avoided because the EU knows both parties will suffer without agreement. Again, tariffs or free trade agreement, I'm easy, but I voted leave knowing full well the possibility of short term problems and challenges. The remain campaign spelled it out clearly, and anyone who didn't know it clearly didn't read the remain leaflets etc etc...I am happy to own my informed leave vote.

I don't believe it will be doom. I believe that under every likely scenario we are going to be worse off.

How much worse off is highly variable but neither the current UK government or the opposition fill me with much hope of a best case scenario post brexit.

I have no problem with people wanting to leave the EU for political or ideological reasons and am happy just to agree to disagree.

However pretending that there won't be some, potentially serious, economic impact however is either wishful thinking or outright dishonesty.

a reply to: Freeborn

Theresa May has suggested that serious consideration should be given to the UK leaving the European Convention system of rights and protection or to amend or repeal existing legislation/regulations.

There's that i suppose, as we are probably best not to allow there sort to tamper with something as important as our Human rights.

originally posted by: SerenTheUniverse

I was hoping Macron had the balls to veto the decision last night forcing no deal exit, as he threatened multiple times.
.

Well he has had to toe the EU line hasn't he?


Toeing the EU line and not being allowed to make our own decisions is

one of the very reasons for us leaving?

No more Mr EU puppet

a reply to: ScepticScot

Oh absolutely, there will be short term challenges and both sides will suffer impacts, only uninformed or dishonest people would claim otherwise.
I agree to disagree of course mate, and it's all out of our hands now anyway, I'm resigning myself to a Brexit in all but name now, unable to form trade deals with non EU nations, forced to adopt EU laws with no say in the creation of them, a pretend exit if you like.
Win some lose some I guess, let's see what more of a mess May can make of it in the extension...end of June or end of the year is the question now.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Yes Mark Carney PhD in conomics who has been head of 2 central banks and has some of the best economists in the world working for him to provide independent assessment of the risks of brexit.

I know we are meant to have had 'enough of expert's but sometimes expertise goes a long way.

Hmmn....Yes and there was Fred Goodwin (Fred the shred) another banker

from your neck of the woods too.


Being bankers and having PhD's doesn't exempt them from lying cheating and

twisting the truth if it suits their agenda.


The former Bank of England governor Mervyn King says "UK should leave EU

with NO deal" and "Theresa May's deal is like an appeasement"


So who's right

I'll put my money on Mervyn King .... he doesn't keep changing his mind .

Goodwin is an accountant, who ran a private bank and who has nothing to do with Brexit what so ever.

King on my view gave quite a reasonable summary of the situation ( which was spun by both sides) even if I do disagree.

A less kind soul than I could add, that as King was governor during the collapse of the UK banking system and the 2008 recession, It might be better if he had changed his mind a bit more often...

a reply to: bastion

My wee brother had a heart transplant around 7 years ago, so obviously, he's rather concerned as to there stock and supplies of the immunosuppressant cocktail of drugs that are keeping him alive drugs like Cyclosporine and the like.

Thing is its never a good idea to mess around with or change the drugs or dosage people are prescribed once they have found a cocktail that works effectively.

The potential for loss of life is staggering should things go beasts up where our supplies of such needed drugs are concerned.