Trans Activism and "Gender Affirmation" is Breaking Our Kids

a reply to: InTheLight

But the topic here is NOT to attack trans people but to question the medicating of young pubescent children not able to make informed decisions. And if the science is bad or bought science, then the parents and educators are also not able to make an informed decision because the true facts aren't there, yet.

Thank you!

Right now, arresting pubescent sexual development, which, thank goodness is a reversible process, to me, is still a serious issue and should be questioned and the science picked apart until we have all the information because as it stands now the side effects are unknown.

This may or may not be true, depending on the circumstances and the person.

It is assumed that natural puberty will resume after puberty blockers are stopped, but that does not always happen, based on reports from its use for precocious puberty. There has been no clinical research performed to study either short or long-term use.

Even when puberty does re-start, it cannot always catch up so to speak. For example, bone density is impaired with the use of puberty blockers, and even after discontinuing use, bone density cannot catch up to where it would have been if puberty blockers had never been used.

The same with cognitive development. Loss of IQ points has been noted with use of puberty blockers, and this cognitive development does not seem to catch up again after use is discontinued.

The process of puberty aids in the growth and development of several systems in the body, not just sexual maturity and fertility. We really don't know what all is being affected, nor the long-term outcomes.

a reply to: Boadicea

Right, so we don't know, so how do we really know this is breaking our kids?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Boadicea

Right, so we don't know, so how do we really know this is breaking our kids?

We know it's breaking our kids because, one, that's the purpose of using puberty blockers: To stop natural biological functions. We also know because of the negative side effects and adverse outcomes reported for other uses of the same drugs. But even that information is only so useful, to the extent that the initial conditions, as well as treatment goals, were much different.

For example, the bulk of the studies we have were performed on older men with prostate issues, whose physical needs and conditions are very different than pre-adolescents. It has also been used for girls experiencing precocious puberty and girls/women suffering endometriosis, who would have elevated hormone levels and other conditions that would be specific to their conditions and outcomes. And, of course, besides age and gender, we're talking about healthy properly functioning organs/bodies versus unhealthy organs/bodies that are not functioning properly.

What we don't know is the extent of damage being done, which will vary by individual, according to both their own unique biology and according to their specific course of treatment.

a reply to: Boadicea

Then again, maybe the damage is nominal and reversible...but we don't know. Then we have the next question, who is to weigh and ultimately accept the cost/results of this therapy?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Boadicea

Then again, maybe the damage is nominal and reversible...but we don't know.

Maybe. Or maybe there is a way to time the drugs for minimal damage/optimal benefit, or otherwise tweak the use.

We really don't know unless and until we do the appropriate clinical studies specific to its purpose.

Then we have the next question, who is to weigh and ultimately accept the cost/results of this therapy?

With proper studies and conclusions, as always, caveat emptor. Ultimately, it is up to each individual to weigh the risks and benefits as known and understood, and accept the consequences for their decision.

If the pharmaceutical companies do their due diligence, and properly report their findings -- the good, the bad, and the ugly -- then they have fulfilled their responsibilities, and should not be help liable for known risks. The problem is that the drugs are being used off-use with virtually no studies or appropriate data. To that extent, they should be held liable for any problems they know or should know of but do not/have not addressed or made public.

a reply to: Boadicea

No argument there.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
you know what, screw it. have your pathetic echo chamber of lies, i'm out.

doesn't matter how much you piss and moan and throw dirt, the future is coming and there aint a damn thing you can do to stop it. and any descendants unlucky enough to yours will inevitably look back on the sorts of things you post here and feel nothing but shame and revulsion and PITY for their utterly pathetic worms of ancestors. i'd spit on the floor as i leave but you're not worth the water.

Oh screw off, you're just wanting to see hatred.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: continuousThunder

This is truly an echo chamber. The OP plus a few others are flooding this thread to drown out any voices who disagree with the OP. If you are familiar with the rules of disinformation, this thread is a glaring example.

Pot meet kettle.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: scrounger

It is part of the lifecycle of most fish to change sexes. Alligators sexes are related to the temperature of their eggs.

Transsexuality is found throughout nature!

We are not fish and reptiles.

I've read through this entire thread. First of all, great thread OP, and a lot to read up on.
I don't believe we should be giving hormone therapy or any other surgical procedures, for gender issues to anyone under the age of 18. That is NOT a decision a parent should be making for a child.

Aren't there multiply studies about a males brain not even being fully developed until like 21 or so?
Anyway,
I DO believe, once a person becomes an adult, they can do WHATEVER they want with their body. I would hope they would have the therapy and whatever else they need to make an informed decision, but it is still their body, their choice.
It has already been proven, after many, many years of study, that hormones CAN have bad effects on adult women. So why in the world would we think it would not have them on children?
I know that many people here have made this a "left,right" issue.
It isn't.
It is a child issue. A child's health issue. That is not MEDICALLY necessary, so why are we playing with their futures, that they don't even know 100% they want?

I was also a tomboy...but...BIG BUT I never WANTED to be a boy......did either of you actually WANT to be a boy or should I say did either of you constantly think you were a boy??? THAT is a BIG difference

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Subrosabelow

I didn't wear dresses. I played with trucks and grubbed around in the dirt with my male cousins. Caught snakes and frogs and lizards and just enjoyed life outdoors.

Funny how I did all of that too, and in today's world some sicko would think that meant I should be a little boy and put me on puberty blockers.

In fact, if you do research on girls with Aspberger's syndrome, they tend to be very tomboyish and do a lot of the things little boys do, but it doesn't make them boys.

the transparent bigotry and hate that is allowed on this site is appalling but then again if they got rid of the people who did it it would just be a few people talking about ufo's or some #. let people be what they want to be. if you can't handle that you have a problem. if you think parents or doctors are doing this to kids as some sort of weird grand conspiracy against you and your way of life your brain is rotten. they're doing what they think is best. they're doing what they think is right and guess what? usually the kid comes out a million times happier and more comfortable in their skin. you don't know the feeling. you can't possibly imagine what it's like and i'm sure you will never try to understand.

originally posted by: ThePawnsTheory
the transparent bigotry and hate that is allowed on this site is appalling but then again if they got rid of the people who did it it would just be a few people talking about ufo's or some #.

There is plenty of transparent bigotry and hate everywhere. It's sad. What is even sadder is those who hide behind them to continue unsafe and unreasable practices that are hurting folks... and hurting kids, as regards the OP. There is no doubt or denying it -- at least if one is intellectually honest about it. You could have tried to explain why these risks and purposes are worthy, but instead you defaulted to name calling.

let people be what they want to be. if you can't handle that you have a problem.

Indeed! Let's!!! Let's let these kids be: no more chemical or surgical castration, no more telling them they aren't good enough just as they are, and no more telling them they need to change themselves to be their "authentic" selves.

if you think parents or doctors are doing this to kids as some sort of weird grand conspiracy against you and your way of life your brain is rotten.

Nope. I think they're doing it for the money. Nothing more and nothing less. Just good old fashioned greed with a dash of sociopathy.

they're doing what they think is best. they're doing what they think is right...

Yup! They're doing what is right and best for their bank accounts.

... and guess what? usually the kid comes out a million times happier and more comfortable in their skin.

You don't know that. No one knows that. And even if they are "happier" after transition than they were before transitioning, that does not mean that their newfound happiness is the happiest they could be. It's quite possible -- perhaps even likely -- that they could find much greater happiness, fulfillment and contentment in life by accepting who and what they are and making the most/best of it, rather than denying their inherent self to chase an impossible dream.

you don't know the feeling. you can't possibly imagine what it's like and i'm sure you will never try to understand.

No, I don't know the feeling. I have tried to imagine what it's like -- note: "imagine" is the operative word there -- and no, I don't understand, but I have tried. And the more I've tried and the more I've researched, the more horrified I am at what I learn.

You may not give a rats patootie about the very real harm being done to kids who will most likely grow out of their dysphoria and into their gender, but I sure do. Your compassion and moral outrage may be selective, but mine is not. You might think "feelz" override reality, but I don't. I am quite happy to accept anyone and to treat them with respect and courtesy no matter what they wear or how they adorn themselves. I'm not the one stuck on gender stereotypes.

Adults can make their own choices and their own mistakes. Kids have to be protected -- both from themselves, and from the adults who would exploit their conditions.

originally posted by: ThePawnsTheory
the transparent bigotry and hate that is allowed on this site is appalling but then again if they got rid of the people who did it it would just be a few people talking about ufo's or some #. let people be what they want to be. if you can't handle that you have a problem. if you think parents or doctors are doing this to kids as some sort of weird grand conspiracy against you and your way of life your brain is rotten. they're doing what they think is best. they're doing what they think is right and guess what? usually the kid comes out a million times happier and more comfortable in their skin. you don't know the feeling. you can't possibly imagine what it's like and i'm sure you will never try to understand.

"You disagree with me, therefore you are hateful and bigoted".

Yawn. That craps been overplayed bucko. But news flash! We are not coldhearted bastards waving pitchforks around trying to kill the monster. If you wanted to change minds, first you'd listen.

I'm sorry if it hurts someones feelings, and I know this is illegal to say here in Canada, but seeing as ATS is hosted in the US and that being were this comment is technically being said, snd considering that facts don't care about feelings, I must say: male and female are genetically coded into every cell and physically displayed on our bodies. To use a pop culture reference, every cell in Bruce Jenners body is male, with the exception of some of HIS sperm cells.

originally posted by: ThePawnsTheory
the transparent bigotry and hate that is allowed on this site is appalling but then again if they got rid of the people who did it it would just be a few people talking about ufo's or some #. let people be what they want to be. if you can't handle that you have a problem. if you think parents or doctors are doing this to kids as some sort of weird grand conspiracy against you and your way of life your brain is rotten. they're doing what they think is best. they're doing what they think is right and guess what? usually the kid comes out a million times happier and more comfortable in their skin. you don't know the feeling. you can't possibly imagine what it's like and i'm sure you will never try to understand.

If you take ATS in its totality, then, yes, there is some bigotry...that is undeniable. However, with this specific thread, I believe the OP is legit in her caring for the damage that might be caused to minor pubescent children when the science is scatterbrained at this point.

And, believe me, if you got rid of bigoted people there would not even be people talking about UFOs or some #?(?)

Some of us will never, then again some of us do, know the feelings...can you relate that to tomboyish feelings? or boys not being boys? What we are talking about is the side effects and long-term damage, which from what the OP and I are reading, is controversial...is not exact science.

New scientific territory here.

Some advice...read and learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I think I can sum up the whole transsexual movement with this simple analogy.

those in the movement think everything in life is like a fast food place.

"you can have it your way"

when presented with the unbending SCIENTIFIC FACT that their BIOLOGICAL GENDER/SEX is determined by chromosomes AT BIRTH and there is NOTHING they can do to change that. They cannot or willnot ACCEPT IT.

they will lash out at ANYONE who dares challenge this and ESPECIALLY with SCIENTIFIC/BIOLOGICAL FACTS.

the use emotional pleas, easily disproved scientific authors/studies, play the hate, race, phobic card, the "they have existed always" comment then when all else fails tell the same lie over and over in propaganda tactic to try to make it the truth.

again I ask the question that NONE OF THE SUPPORTERS HAVE ANSWERED.

(again bold for clarity)

SHOW ME ONE TRANSSEXUAL THAT HAS CHANGED THEIR BIOLOGICAL SEX FROM XX FEMALE TO XY MALE OR VICE VERSA.

the truth they want to run from , deny with every fiber of their being, and attack anyone who disagrees with is this.

no matter what hormones, blockers, cosmetic surgery, and altering their sex organs to resemble the other ....
you CANNOT CHANGE YOUR SEX/GENDER.

all you have done is change the VISIBLE OUTSIDE... your chromosomes STAYED THE SAME.

On a side note I do feel empathy for you.
its hard for ANYONE to accept sometimes life has dealt you a hand that you dont want.

scrounger

Slightly off topic, and I do apologize for that, but this is related. I was wondering if the trans/identity politics/abortion/homosexual pride/etc movements were actually part of the plan of those who built thr Georgia Guide stones. Perhaps they really want global population under 500m, because this is how you do it.

originally posted by: just2cents
I'm sorry if it hurts someones feelings, and I know this is illegal to say here in Canada, but seeing as ATS is hosted in the US and that being where this comment is technically being said...

These restrictions on speech in Canada are unconscionable. I'm absolutely horrified at how Jonathan "Jessica" Yaniv has been protected by government. In case you don't know, he's the child predator claiming to be transgender who filed a complaint against the women who declined to wax his male genitals....

Censorship and Gaslighting: Meet Jonathan Yaniv

...and considering that facts don't care about feelings, I must say: male and female are genetically coded into every cell and physically displayed on our bodies. To use a pop culture reference, every cell in Bruce Jenners body is male, with the exception of some of HIS sperm cells.

And that's the bottom line. We are who we are, and we can only live as ourselves -- no matter what we wear or how we adorn ourselves.

I don't care -- I don't think most people care! -- unless and until people get hurt.

a reply to: Boadicea
That story is appalling. It's been all over the news. Let that sink in. The news is supporting this absurdity! I'm glad to see that there are other people choosing to deny ignorance out here.