Trans Activism and "Gender Affirmation" is Breaking Our Kids

a reply to: continuousThunder

No. I refuse to have a discussion with someone who won't even be intellectually honest, and resorts to name calling rather than the issues. If you make up crap about me to further your cause, then you'll make up crap about anything.

a reply to: scrounger

I give you kudos and much credit to a well researched and dare say excellent posting of sources (more than I have ever seen on ATS) on this topic. you show the good, bad and evil of this topic.

Thank you!

I agree -- adults can do as they will, and as long as they're not hurting anyone else, that's their right and their choice. Kids are a different story. Kids depend on adults to make the best decisions for them, and these side effects and adverse outcomes are best left for later in life. Let the kids at least develop their bones and brains and other essential bodily functions before considering such drastic steps.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Boadicea

How can we possibly hope to address the issues of gender affirmation as it applies to chemically altering children with permanent consequences if we can't even refer to the victims as he or she without some raging nut case jumping down out throats for using a banned hateful pronoun?

We can't. And I think that's the point. Keep us arguing and fighting over semantics and other petty crap and we won't see the real problems. The ugly underbelly of it all.

Don't get me wrong. I agree this is something that needs some serious attention. But if we are ever going to get anywhere we are going to have to back this bus up all the way to square one and start over with the most basic of basics. There are two genders. Feelings are not genders. Self identity issues are not genders. There are two - male and female. How you feel, what you think, what you prefer are not genders. Those are affectations and nothing more.

I agree. We have a relative few people trying to redefine words and assume identities that are not theirs, leaving others redefined and undefined -- all for "feelings." It creates chaos and confusion and never ending arguments and hostility for everyone.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Not to mention the fact that anyone - especially scientists best in a position to do so - who dares to even ask questions is demonized and attacked to the point they sometimes even lose their jobs or worse.

This is a major reason for all of us to take another good long hard look at all of the "science" and recommendations being made.

Nothing in this thread can be debunked. No one can "debunk" both the intended and unintended consequences of these drugs on kids. No one can "debunk" that research and researchers are being attacked and demonized and vilified for any research that doesn't fit the Trans Activist ideology. No one can "debunk" that parents are being called "transphobes" and "anti-trans" if they don't support this "gender affirmation" treatment, and that their kids are being transitioned without even their knowledge much less their consent!

The only thing to argue is whether it's necessary and proper, and we need more research to figure that out. Research that the Trans Activist industry will not allow.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Boadicea

I have viewed some responses here to this great posting of yours. My view is that behind all this is pure evil, ensconced, magic on a level as to bewitch an entire nation. Our full destruction is the aim and not just us but a spirit of an age, let loosed from the underworld upon the earth.

Well if you think about it, its the ultimate middle finger to God. Satan hates humans and the human creation. It is said that before the great flood, we had the power of DNA manipulation and all sorts of ways to pervert who we are.

I think we have come full circle and we are now back at a point where things are getting really wicked really fast. What better way to insult God than to change who we are. To change what it is to be male or female or to strip what it means to be human at all. This gender neutral, literal man hating environment is just the beginning I think.

Now these evil monsters are practicing their craft out in the open, taking children that can't even think for themselves and they are making them in their own image, what "they" think they should be.

Its never enough with these evil people. Its always something else they are lacking that society must provide them. The whole agenda seems hell bent on getting at the ultimate innocence of human kind and pervert it at the earliest point possible.

I can't think of any rational reason why any species would do this to their young. Satan has to be laughing is a@@ off at what he has convinced humans to do.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Not to mention the fact that anyone - especially scientists best in a position to do so - who dares to even ask questions is demonized and attacked to the point they sometimes even lose their jobs or worse.

I just saw this essay from a children's doctor who has experienced -- and described -- the harassment and abuse he's received for daring to criticize the rush to medicate (and sterilize) our kids:

Bitter-tweet: The Foul Flavour of the Gender Debate

And then the trans-activist mob caught wind of my tweet. Judging by the tenor of their comments, I doubt that those freshly agitated Twitterites took time to read one whit of my “Act Wisely” essay before their hatred poured forth: I was immediately labeled a transphobe, a bigot, a homophobe, unprofessional, intolerant, discriminatory, a menace to children, and guilty of malpractice; I was accused of “misgendering”, reported to the Twitter police, and, to summarize the most eloquent offering, invited to “# off and die”.

My humble, little-noticed blog got a sudden blaze of activist attention. Little snippets were cut and pasted out of context onto Twitter, my work summarily dismissed as a “bizarro” collection of bigotry and homophobia.

Like magic, the following assessment of my abilities immediately cropped up on RateMD: He's a transphobe and supports unscientific, political agenda nonsense that potentially harms children.

I tried, for a bit, to defend myself on Twitter, attempting to rationally debate the wholly irrational.

But when I was doxed by the mob, led by Mx. Ya-ya Page and journalist Siobhan O’Leary uncovering and publishing the place of my work, looping in the Alberta Children’s Hospital Foundation (?!), and vowing to report me to the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta - I had had enough. Rattled, and deeply disturbed, I suspended my account.

Is it any wonder, given my experience, that so many physicians are silent? Who can tolerate this? Who is willing to risk their reputation by going toe-to-toe with people like this?

originally posted by: continuousThunder

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: continuousThunder
a reply to: Cybelle

Funny that the two who have sooooooooo much to say about me, won't say it to me...

The two who are soooooooooooooooo sure that they know what is really in my heart and mind don't want me or anyone talking about them... No no no... we don't know anyone who's trans so we should just shut up.

Bottom Line: Real harm is being done to kids. Period. There is absolutely no question or doubt whatsoever that these drugs cause infertility and other severe side effects and adverse outcomes. No doubt whatsoever.

If you want to tell us why this harm is "reasonable" and "practical", go for it.

okay so i thought long and hard about infertility before i started my transition and here's a reasonable and practical answer; if i didn't transition, i was going to die. no two ways about it, it was literally change or die. so even if i had had any children, they would have had a heavily depressed and emotionally absent 'father' who would then have died and left them alone and probably a bit messed up.
so yeah i guess it's kinda sad i can't have kids and i get upset about it occassionally but not only am i still here but i'm also happy and healthy and have a rewarding life sooo whatcha gonna do? better for those hypothetical children, too.

If you just want to whine and cry because the mean lady is telling the truth, then stuff it.

How were you "going to die"?

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: Wardaddy454

my favourite thing about this post is that the very next post is by someone on your side going THIS IS EVIL MAGIC TO BEWITCH AND DESTROY THE SPIRIT OF THE WORLD
so yeah, on one side we have every major and reputable health, psychology, medical and science org who've been doing proper science studies about this for literal decades, and on the other we have SATAN DID THE TRANS so i agree, debunked and "debunked" sounds about right

"Science". Psychology is questionable science.

We're no closer to understanding the brain than knowing whats in the deepest part of the ocean. As for the other poster, I may disagree, but we'll find out at some point if they're right or wrong, wont we.

I don't understand why you live in a constant state of hyperbole though, it looked more like the poster was implying that some kind of evil may have taken control of your movement at best. Which, I'd argue, evil does exist without it having to be a religious evil.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: InTheLight

you are FAR too kind. if she wanted to understand, don't you think she would listen to the people who's lives she's talking about? instead of making declarations about a TRANS AGENDA and how we're out to harm and pervert The Children?

seriously! if you want to understand someone, you don't turn to sources exclusively attacking them [with long disproved junk science] do you?

We? No one as far as I saw said you ALL were. But to deny the possibility that SOMEONE might want to is naive.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: continuousThunder

When the science and research is just starting to get a hold of what is what, then yes I think you and everyone else is just winging it and floundering.

This is pretty much the gods honest truth.

The science is never settled. We're even revisiting gravity now.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: InTheLight

surely you will concede that, while we're all a bit lost at sea in some greater metaphysical sense, surely those of us who've been living this reality, thinking and researching deeply on it for decades, surely you will admit we're a little less lost than someone whose only source is right wing fear blogs? especially since, as has been pointed out so many times, those sources are full of lies?

Confirmation bias is not indicative of knowledge.

That's true for everyone.

you know what, screw it. have your pathetic echo chamber of lies, i'm out.

doesn't matter how much you piss and moan and throw dirt, the future is coming and there aint a damn thing you can do to stop it. and any descendants unlucky enough to yours will inevitably look back on the sorts of things you post here and feel nothing but shame and revulsion and PITY for their utterly pathetic worms of ancestors. i'd spit on the floor as i leave but you're not worth the water.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
you know what, screw it. have your pathetic echo chamber of lies, i'm out.

doesn't matter how much you piss and moan and throw dirt, the future is coming and there aint a damn thing you can do to stop it. and any descendants unlucky enough to yours will inevitably look back on the sorts of things you post here and feel nothing but shame and revulsion and PITY for their utterly pathetic worms of ancestors. i'd spit on the floor as i leave but you're not worth the water.

I just quoted your rant so we can see what you exactly said.

but in all your posts, rants, and even this you deny (and never counter btw with anything other than emotional rants) FOUR basic UNDISPUTED SCIENTIFIC BIOLOGICAL FACTS

1. If you have XX chromosome your a BIOLOGICAL FEMALE
If you have XY chromosome your a BIOLOGICAL MALE

2. If you have any extra chromosomes, body parts not native to XX or XY, and/or some trait not native to XX or XY then its a GENETIC DEFECT... RARE biological error.

3. Your BIOLOGICAL SEX/GENDER (Note both are same when used like this) is determined AT BIRTH.

4. most importantly ........NO ONE HAS EVER CHANGED THEIR CHROMOSOMES FROM XX TO XY or vice versa. NOT ONE PERSON.

show me ONE PERSON that has gone though the change and if I take a blood sample it will show their chromosomes have changed... SHOW ME ONE...

until you can do that all you have (sorry if truth is hurtful) is someone living permanent cosplay...

you may look , sound , act like a woman but your DNA HAS DETERMINED you are still at the core a man (or vice versa)

Im sorry but TRUTH AND FACT dont care what you identify, believe, act , ect like

If you choose not to deal with the reality thats on you... but I and others are not gonna tell a lie and call it fact.

I will call you (if gone though the change) your name or sir/mam if you like... but I will not say your biologically
what your not


so show me ONE PERSON who has changed their sex on biological level AND ONLY THEN will you be right

scrounger

a reply to: continuousThunder

This is truly an echo chamber. The OP plus a few others are flooding this thread to drown out any voices who disagree with the OP. If you are familiar with the rules of disinformation, this thread is a glaring example.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: continuousThunder

This is truly an echo chamber. The OP plus a few others are flooding this thread to drown out any voices who disagree with the OP. If you are familiar with the rules of disinformation, this thread is a glaring example.

If "drowning out" you mean calling out the emotional comments from the factual ones then sir you are correct.

it is "drowning out" IGNORANCE.

you know that ideal of ATS "deny ignorance"

Im sorry if myself and others (including the OP) dont want to continue the lies put forth by the trans movement.
ESPECIALLY when applies to CHILDREN.

again Ill ask you SHOW ME ONE TRANSSEXUAL who changed their chromosomes from XX (female) to XY (male) or vice versa.

Unless you can then your whole argument you can change your sex/gender is SCIENTIFICALLY FALSE .

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

Exactly deny ignorance!

When an opposing idea of the OP is presented, it is instantly attacked, not only attacked but the good information about the reality of being transgender is drowned by knee jerk emotional grabbing posts and at times, out right ridicule from several posters.

The reality is trans folks have existed throughout history and it many cultures it is widely accepted.

The spin here is when it comes to transgender children. The OP wants people to believe doctors are willing to hand out blockers and hormones to any child who questions their gender.

The reality is this is simply not true and in very isolated cases hormones are administered after extensive psych evaluations.

The OP is essentially playing the trans phobia crowd like a fiddle. Their confirmation bias will cloud any rational thought or discussion.

It is not as simple as XX means having babies and XY means you pee standing up.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: scrounger

Exactly deny ignorance!

When an opposing idea of the OP is presented, it is instantly attacked, not only attacked but the good information about the reality of being transgender is drowned by knee jerk emotional grabbing posts and at times, out right ridicule from several posters.

sigh.. If you are calling using FACTS to show the arguments against what he stated are EMOTIONALLY based then you are correct. if you call "knee jerk" by showing the reaility of trans gender is YOU CANT CHANGE YOUR GENDER/SEX then you are also correct. but the only "ridicule" is the belief by those claiming or supporting trans gender that you can change your sex .

The reality is trans folks have existed throughout history and it many cultures it is widely accepted.

Yes they have existed. So what? just because you "exist" for a long time does not change the fact your not the BIOLOGICAL sex your portraying. in short. your existance for a long time does not change SCIENTIFIC FACT you cant change your sex. As for cultures acceptied transexuals you fail to differenciate if they accept you exist or accept the premise you can change your sex/gender. The first is believalbe. the second i doubt. BTW all the points I made about existing apply to this too

The spin here is when it comes to transgender children. The OP wants people to believe doctors are willing to hand out blockers and hormones to any child who questions their gender.

actually in at least one case of the autistic children THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. As for other cases the "willing to hand out" in face of CHILDREN have not made , nor can make a choice along with you cannot change your BIOLOGICAL SEX the accusations are reasonable.

The reality is this is simply not true and in very isolated cases hormones are administered after extensive psych evaluations.

this statement is a LIE told by those supporting this action. A CHILD CANNOT be "extensive psych evaluations" to determine if this is appropriate. because the basic fact is A CHILD DOES NOT HAVE THE MATURITY to determine such a life altering thing. As I clearly stated before if you cannot trust a child to make a contract, use./own a gun, join the military, get a tattoo , hell even get a cell phone contract but they can decide or show they are responcible enough for gender altering drugs? Common that defys logic and ebraces ignorance. Add to that as OP pointed out this is being proposed (and supported) at age of even 5.

The OP is essentially playing the trans phobia crowd like a fiddle. Their confirmation bias will cloud any rational thought or discussion.

Im sorry EXACTLY HOW is the op doing this? He provided MULTIPLE SOURCES (far more than any other post on any other subject I have ever seen on ats) of all aspects of this. Im sorry if FACTS and SCIENTIFIC ARTICLES torpedo the trans movement. The only "clouding any rational thought or discussion" happening is this (even by you) CONTINUED emotional, propoganda and just plain ranting postings for trans and against those who wont agree with you.


It is not as simple as XX means having babies and XY means you pee standing up.

Actually it is THAT BIOLOGICALLY PROVEN SIMPLE. let me state AGAIN the basic PROVEN BIOLOGICAL FACTS.

1. if you have XX chromosomes your a BIOLOGICAL FEMALE
If you have XY chromosomes your a BIOLOGICAL MALE

2. if you have an extra chromosome, physical body part not part of xx/xy, or some trait that is from the other gender/sex thats called a GENETIC ABNORMALITY... RARE incident .

3. your gender/sex (terms in this application the same) is DETERMINED AT BIRTH.

4. last and most important... YOU CANT CHANGE YOUR BIOLOGICAL SEX/GENDER FROM XX TO XY OR VICE VERSA.

everything else from trans existing for xx years , your identifying, your feelings, your changes you made to your body, how you live DOES NOT CHANGE YOUR BIOLOGICAL MAKEUP you were born with and is an emotional argument with no basis in fact.

sigh

I will ask again SHOW ME ONE PERSON THAT CHANGED THEIR BIOLOGICAL SEX/GENDER FROM XX TO XY (or vice versa)

because UNLESS YOU CAN .... ANY CLAIM of transsexual argument of one changing their sex/gender is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE / NOT BASED IN FACT.

you can call people names, claim hate, tell us your life story till your blue in the face.
If you live as the opposite sex/gender , go though the change, want to be called ms or sir all the power to you.
but you DID NOT CHANGE YOUR BIOLOGICAL SEX.

no amount of people saying you have will change this.

you either accept FACTS or you dont.

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

It is part of the lifecycle of most fish to change sexes. Alligators sexes are related to the temperature of their eggs.

Transsexuality is found throughout nature!

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: scrounger

It is part of the lifecycle of most fish to change sexes. Alligators sexes are related to the temperature of their eggs.

Transsexuality is found throughout nature!

are humans reptiles?
are humans fish?
are humans clownfish (specifically)?

NO

we are homo-sapiens

Sigh if your gonna expect to be taken seriously then to try to compare us to other COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES isnt the way to go.

it is as ignorant to science as trying to compare a an apple to a fish.

again I ask you ....
(bold for emphasis and clear reading)

NAME ME ONE HUMAN BEING THAT WAS CONFIRMED CHANGED THEIR BIOLOGICAL SEX FROM XX CHROMOSOMES TO XY CHROMOSOMES (OR VISE VERSA)

not some scientist unproven theory but COLD HARD PROOF

unless you can AGAIN basic biology shows your transexual idea is BIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR HUMANS

btw the fact I have to ad the quantifying comment "HUMANS" because for some reason you think a human is same as a fish shows more your ignorance to support your view.

scrounger

originally posted by: continuousThunder
you know what, screw it. have your pathetic echo chamber of lies, i'm out.

doesn't matter how much you piss and moan and throw dirt, the future is coming and there aint a damn thing you can do to stop it. and any descendants unlucky enough to yours will inevitably look back on the sorts of things you post here and feel nothing but shame and revulsion and PITY for their utterly pathetic worms of ancestors. i'd spit on the floor as i leave but you're not worth the water.

But the topic here is NOT to attack trans people but to question the medicating of young pubescent children not able to make informed decisions. And if the science is bad or bought science, then the parents and educators are also not able to make an informed decision because the true facts aren't there, yet.

I don't think we are in an echo chamber of lies, but rather a dark tunnel with a pin-hole light at the end of it.

Right now, arresting pubescent sexual development, which, thank goodness is a reversible process, to me, is still a serious issue and should be questioned and the science picked apart until we have all the information because as it stands now the side effects are unknown.

The treatment is given with the accompaniment of mental-health experts and is conditional on several criteria. Above all, the wishes of the boy or girl. Also, there will be a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, made, naturally, by a psychiatrist or psychologist who has experience with children and adolescents in this specific area; the agreement of the parents, who sign consent forms and know what the implications and side effects are at each stage; and, the fourth and final condition: whether the adolescents themselves are at a suitable stage for treatment in terms of their maturity.

The treatment has several phases, beginning with hormones to inhibit or stop sexual development. Yes. Of course, the young children who come to us do not receive any medicinal treatment, but advice and referral for psychological counseling.

The medicines are administered from the age of adolescence. Which is? It depends on each patient’s specific development. For girls the average age is 10, for boys 11 or 12. The decision is made with a physical examination. For girls, the onset of adolescence manifests in the development of breast tissue; for boys, the volume of the testicles. Adolescents who are found suitable receive what are popularly known as “blockers”: We simply arrest their sexual development.

Which is a reversible process.

www.haaretz.com...

How are we to deny ignorance if we can't put a finger on what exactly is ignorance within an issue, in the first place (ignorance is a lack of irrefutable science).