Brexit, Today is the Vote!

a reply to: Freeborn

Making plans to do the last leg, to Parliament. First time protesting anything but it's simply too important not to.

a reply to: justwokeup

Good on you mate....see you in Parliament Square.

Every single person who voted Brexit or is simply fed up with the amoral shower of #e our political elites are should make plans to protest on that day.
If they can't make it to London then organise something locally and let your local MP's know just how disgusted we are with the whole system and those who currently infest it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



This dude is calling it how it is!

originally posted by: 83Liberty
a reply to: eletheia
So if we did have another referendum and the answers where to either Remain in the EU or Leave with Theresa's deal, which would you vote for? Or would you not bother voting? I think I will just spoil my ballot paper and call them all #s.

I would spoil the ballot and regard the ref and result as illegitimate. A 2nd referendum cannot answer anything but it can pour fuel on the irreconcilable divisions already burning. Nobody is convincing anybody or changing minds at this point.

a reply to: justwokeup

How will a second referendum not answer anything?

Given now we actually understand the totality of what we are voting for and the implications that come with any no deal?

It's not like there have not been precedents set before where referendums are concerned.

Peoples minds are exactly what will have changed given the current predicant and mess in which we find ourselves imho anyway.

a reply to: justwokeup

I wonder if it will be a protest, or a celebration. Will there be a parallel "stay in EU" protest, or celebration?

So long as it's peaceful then that's good. One thing is sure though, is that if people feel robbed then it may be a protest, and noisy.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: justwokeup

How will a second referendum not answer anything?

Given now we actually understand the totality of what we are voting for and the implications that come with any no deal?

It's not like there have not been precedents set before where referendums are concerned.

Peoples minds are exactly what will have changed given the current predicant and mess in which we find ourselves imho.

It won't answer anything as forcing a 2nd without implementing the result of the first is illegitimate.

Therefore, leavers won't accept it if the result changes. Remainers have already demonstrated they don't care about accepting referendums they don't win so would continue the battle supported by the establishment if leave won again.

It solves nothing, just ratchets up the intensity of the conflict as everyone digs in and doubles down on thier chosen side.

This is the hole people dig when they decide not to respect referendum results with massive turnouts and a clear result.

a reply to: paraphi

There is an obvious danger that any protest can turn ugly....and its equally obvious this protest has more potential to do so than most.

A lot has to do with policing methods and tactics, a lot has to do with any counter protests and a lot has to do with just how angry people are....
And then throw in a heavy dose of alcohol etc and we have the proverbial tinderbox.

But as Joe said "Anger can be power".

a reply to: justwokeup

But "They" told us a load of porkie pies where the first referendum was concerned.

We have learned not to trust the crap on the side of busses since then. LoL

If the result will be the same where is the issue in a second referendum?

The first referendum results we're hardly a cut and dry affair.

If the will of the people is to Brexit then let them say so now is my thinking on the matter because trusting the politicians on both sides has shown exactly the measure of their mettle.

Brexit aside the division between the people will never go away whilst we have forced austerity and class war raging.

Brexit won't change that fact only reinforces the division, to be honest.

originally posted by: andy06shake
But "They" told us a load of porkie pies where the first referendum was concerned.

Who is "they"?

Both sides played the hand of confused truth. However, I think that vast majority of the electorate have the ability to make their own judgement and work through the facts and fiction. The mantra of "we was robbed cos the other lot lied" just demonstrates poor judgement, with a unhealthy streak of revisionism. The Remainers just failed to convince the majority that staying in the EU was worth the compromise to sovereignty, because they were too busy (er) telling porkie pies too.

a reply to: paraphi

"They" are the banker's politicians corporations multimedia conglomerates and big business in general.

They are all liars paraphi but Westminster probably has more than just its fair share.

Politics is broken as Brexit has clearly shown, and that's by design.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: justwokeup

But "They" told us a load of porkie pies where the first referendum was concerned.

We have learned not to trust the crap on the side of busses since then. LoL

If the result will be the same where is the issue in a second referendum?

The first referendum results we're hardly a cut and dry affair.

If the will of the people is to Brexit then let them say so now is my thinking on the matter because trusting the politicians on both sides has shown exactly the measure of their mettle.

You can't settle an issue by referendum after having invalidated the legitimacy of the referendum process by ignoring the results of the previous referendum.

They'll either have one or they won't. This process has demonstrated that our political and media class truly don't care what the man in the street thinks.

What I'm saying is it won't be the end of it either way. It will only put us in the same place with even deeper divisions and no process for settling them regarded as legitimate.

a reply to: justwokeup

Well two outcomes seem to be on the horizon really.

Hard Brexit or another referendum to determine the current will of the people.

Either way, i predict a riot, because politics has failed us and someone must be held to account.

Seems to me not much is legitimate these days especially where Westminster is concerned.

a reply to: andy06shake

If the result will be the same where is the issue in a second referendum?

It would depend on what is being asked in any second referendum.

I am fundamentally opposed to the notion of a second referendum without the first being enacted....it opposes the very concept of democracy.

We have learned not to trust the crap on the side of busses since then.

Or the bully boy scaremongering tactics of the Remainers who spouted at least just as much bollocks and bull# as the other side.
Project Fear is still in full operation....as witnessed with even a cursory glance of sensationalist claptrap 'reported' by MSM on a daily basis.

Brexit aside the division between the people will never go away whilst we have forced austerity and class war raging.

Common ground.
But Brexit should have been the ideal opportunity for the people to unite and work together in order to build something new and good.
Instead people ignored the result of a democratic ballot and willingly played along with 'their' divisive games which only serve to maintain the status quo that many ironically allege to dislike.

If there is a second referendum then the options should be to accept a government backed deal or No Deal.
Remaining in the EU should not be an option.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: justwokeup

Well two outcomes seem to be on the horizon really.

Hard Brexit or another referendum to determine the current will of the people.

Either way, i predict a riot, because politics has failed us and someone must be held to account.

Seems to me not much is legitimate these days especially where Westminster is concerned.

The process has shown our establishment has failed us. Our politicians serve themselves and our Civil Service is conspiring with foreign powers against us. It all needs root and branch reform, from the civil service to the lord's and then to the commons.

Thats a secondary battle though as there's no point trying to reform a system bound up hand and foot by another one. If you don't like what the organ grinder does theres little point shouting at the monkey.

a reply to: justwokeup

You can't settle an issue by referendum after having invalidated the legitimacy of the referendum process by ignoring the results of the previous referendum.

How could anyone possibly argue against that?

a reply to: Freeborn

Even if it could have been an ideal opportunity for the people to unite and work together.

I was not.

It was however orchestrated and FUBAR from the beginning.

If there is a second referendum i don't see revoking article 50 not being an option.

The salient point to all this debacle, however, is that politics in the UK, in its present condition, is broken beyond repair.

The real referendum should be on the state of rule from Westminster imho.

Coz there are the real bastards responsible for this whole mess right there.

And whilst we argue amongst ourselves the still rule the rust from there ivory castle will little regard for anyone else but their own kind.

a reply to: justwokeup

"If you don't like what the organ grinder does theres little point shouting at the monkey."

Can always shoot both and let God sort them out. LoL

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: justwokeup

But "They" told us a load of porkie pies where the first referendum was concerned.


'lol one side or both sides told porkies? politicians telling lies is a daily career choice is it not?
I must admit that I have always had a large mistrust of political voodoo and from the get-go
ignored the mouthpieces grappling for ownership of any particular agenda.'

We have learned not to trust the crap on the side of busses since then. LoL


'propaganda we are exposed to on a daily basis'

If the result will be the same where is the issue in a second referendum?


'take no-deal (wto) off the table and we will as be worse off as the greek/Cypriot
people found themselves in lining up for financial haircuts.'


The first referendum results we're hardly a cut and dry affair.


'it must be said again 50% plus 1 was the mandate'

If the will of the people is to Brexit then let them say so now is my thinking on the matter because trusting the politicians on both sides has shown exactly the measure of their mettle.

'it's not brexit that's the problem here it's the blantant disregard of the electorate by the politicians and in due course
a ripple will flow through parliament post-mess'

Brexit aside the division between the people will never go away whilst we have forced austerity and class war raging.


'austerity was embedded long before the referendum. the houses voted this in. i disagee with the measures imposed
and the exchequer should have implemented a corporate tax increase to claw more funding into the coffers, after all,
many corporate structures were and still continue to gouge into the nations finances.'


Brexit won't change that fact only reinforces the division, to be honest.

'i agree. a remedy is required to division amongst the electorate. politicians need to know their place and the toffs
should consider their future comforts if the bottom rungs are left to suffer their incompetences'
f.

a reply to: fakedirt

The problem is this nations leadership hierarchy has been sick and subverted for quite some time i suppose.

And nothing is being done, has been done, or will be done anytime soon to alleviate nor remedy the situation.