Brexit, Today is the Vote!

Satire:

Satire:

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Pretty much every serious economist agrees that membership of the single market/customs union is good for the UK. That's not propaganda.

Considering the UK has a large trade deficit with the EU, I think the EU has benefited more from the UK being part of the single market. My point was that the single market does not come with a liberalised service sector single market. The EU have build a protectionist service sector that has disadvantaged the UK. 80% of the UK economy is based around services.

The Germans will sell us their cars, but are not willing to liberalise their service sector to create a level playing field.

So, yes, people believe the propaganda.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Pretty much every serious economist agrees that membership of the single market/customs union is good for the UK. That's not propaganda.

Considering the UK has a large trade deficit with the EU, I think the EU has benefited more from the UK being part of the single market. My point was that the single market does not come with a liberalised service sector single market. The EU have build a protectionist service sector that has disadvantaged the UK. 80% of the UK economy is based around services.

The Germans will sell us their cars, but are not willing to liberalise their service sector to create a level playing field.

So, yes, people believe the propaganda.

The UK and german economy have very similar % economy from service sector.

The reality is that creating a true single market for services is a lot more complicated than for goods. However there are already areas where this has been developed and remains an on going process.

There is no German conspiracy to stop this.

Reality is that international companies will want to be within single market for both goods and services and being out it will hit inward investment in the UK.

Propaganda exists on both sides. It's pretty arrogant to assume that you aren't affected and everyone who disagrees with you is falling for it.

originally posted by: 83Liberty

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Put simply however three main options.

Stay in EU and accept that involves some degree of political union to work.

Stay in single market/customs union and accept that means agreeing to EU trade rules without having a real say in them.

Leave completely and accept that we lose benefits of being in the single market.

I say option 3, where do I put my cross? Oh I already did, in the June 2016 referendum.
Option 1 was in the referendum and it lost. Option 2 wasn't an option and why would it, it is a stupid idea and results in even less democracy than the system we voted against.

I actually agree option 2 is the worse choice.

It's also probably what we will get.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Propaganda exists on both sides. It's pretty arrogant to assume that you aren't affected and everyone who disagrees with you is falling for it.

I am challenging the myth that was trumpeted that the single market is a shining example of benefit to the UK, as many economists have apparently slavishly reported. Yes it's important, but more so for for the 23 nations in the EU that the UK has a trade deficit with.

The UK and german economy have very similar % economy from service sector.

UK 80% and Germany 66%. Nope, not "very similar".

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Propaganda exists on both sides. It's pretty arrogant to assume that you aren't affected and everyone who disagrees with you is falling for it.

I am challenging the myth that was trumpeted that the single market is a shining example of benefit to the UK, as many economists have apparently slavishly reported. Yes it's important, but more so for for the 23 nations in the EU that the UK has a trade deficit with.

The UK and german economy have very similar % economy from service sector.

UK 80% and Germany 66%. Nope, not "very similar".

Both about 70%, happy to be corrected if you have source however.

ETA - checked and there seems huge differences in the split by sector of UK economy depending on source.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Game of Crones.

www.youtube.com...

Wont let me embed the vid for some reason.

Funny, with a no deal brexit on the horizon it doesn't appear that anybody is celebrating it, including the leavers? Seems to be blame all around. This is what the English voted for no?

a reply to: Southern Guardian

We are to busy crapping our breeks and wondering what the hell is going on or about to take place to be honest.

Truth is half the people who voted to leave were not sure what the hell they were voting for at the time.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
Funny, with a no deal brexit on the horizon it doesn't appear that anybody is celebrating it, including the leavers? Seems to be blame all around. This is what the English voted for no?

Well you are correct sir
England did vote for it , but Scotland didnt

Satire:

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
Funny, with a no deal brexit on the horizon it doesn't appear that anybody is celebrating it, including the leavers? Seems to be blame all around. This is what the English voted for no?

I'd be celebrating it, I'm not celebrating as it's unlikely we'll get it.

The United Kingdom voted for it, including the 38% of Scots referendum participants that voted for it.

The SNP would have people believe Scots all love the EU, the figures say different.

I would like to see some studies into correlation between No Vote and Leave Vote in Scotland. I suspect it's a strong overlap, it's the same patriotic unionist core. Which is why attempts to win people over to Yes by moaning about Brexit won't work.

Paradoxically thwarting brexit is good for the yes case as the British establishment will have told the same core No/Leave vote that UK democracy is in fact a sham. The UK tory remainers are working for Scottish independence, they just don't realise it.

a reply to: justwokeup

The UK tory remainers are working for Scottish independence, they just don't realise it.

I think it'd be more accurate to say that Scottish Nationalists are working with The Tories and the Westminster elite who they allegedly so passionately dislike.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: justwokeup

The UK tory remainers are working for Scottish independence, they just don't realise it.

I think it'd be more accurate to say that Scottish Nationalists are working with The Tories and the Westminster elite who they allegedly so passionately dislike.

The outcome will be the same, sadly. For those who dream of a future European Empire made of centrally ruled provinces, it's the perfect outcome. This fight right now is for all the marbles.

a reply to: justwokeup

I'd be celebrating it, I'm not celebrating as it's unlikely we'll get it.

Brexit is only 18 days away and there's still no deal. You're saying it's unlikely England will leave as voted on, but all signs point to this direction. May doesn't have the clout nor the will to reverse this.

a reply to: justwokeup

there are also people in Scotland who want nothing to do with Westminster or Brussels!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: justwokeup

there are also people in Scotland who want nothing to do with Westminster or Brussels!

I respect those people as they have at least a coherent set of beliefs.

May is a Remainer, leading a cabinet with Remainers selected for the top jobs being advised by a civil service that wants above all to remain. The majority of Tories in parliament wants remain. The opposition wants to Remain. The state broadcaster wants to Remain.

It'll be Mays 'surrender and pay to be trapped in purgatory' deal, or an extension and another ref.

If we get a proper leave it'll be pure miscalculation on all sides. Regardless faith in British democracy lies in ruin.