Poll: Democrat voters now more in favor of wars than Republicans because Trump wants to pull out

In the last few years, I feel like I have been increasingly under attack for holding to my beliefs.

Holding the same beliefs I had years ago, I am now a conservative rather than the Liberal I used to be.

This is crazy. If it's a grand experiment I have to give it respect because I am impressed.

originally posted by: soundguy
Here’s another poll.

thehill.com...

a reply to: Grambler

It's amazing to me how few people know what a logical fallacy is.

This post is the very definition of a straw man argument.

What's the topic soundguy? You always switch the topic when you know you have nothing to stand on. You also enter the thread sliging insults because you lack all substance.

originally posted by: soundguy
Well then why make a post about a skewed poll as if it were fact? You should really venture out of your parents basement once in a while. The fresh air might help with the brain fog. a reply to: Grambler

At least Grambler will take a step path healthy debate and actually hear people out.

All polls are to be taken with question (first line of OP).

I'm surprised however that someone who made a thread with a Facebook post is splitting hairs over a story done by Glenn Greenwald of all journalists.

Here's my surprised face you dodged any substance of the topic and went after OP as usual 🤗

a reply to: Grambler

I agree with you mostly in this post. One thing I would like to clarify is the statement:

The one thing I am in agreement with them on is their understanding that the neo cons and neo libs both push for these regime change wars.

NEOCON:

Neoconservatism (commonly shortened to neocon when labelling its adherents) is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s among liberal hawks who became disenchanted with the increasingly pacifist foreign policy of the Democratic Party, and the growing New Left and counterculture, in particular the Vietnam protests. Some also began to question their liberal beliefs regarding domestic policies such as the Great Society. Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including peace through strength (by means of military force), and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.[1][2]

Wiki

NEOLIB:

Neoliberalism or neo-liberalism[1] is the 20th-century resurgence of 19th-century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism and free market capitalism.[2]:7[3] Those ideas include economic liberalization policies such as privatization, austerity, deregulation, free trade[4] and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.[12] These market-based ideas and the policies they inspired constitute a paradigm shift away from the post-war Keynesian consensus which lasted from 1945 to 1980.[13][14]

Wiki

I see people using these terms all the time thinking the "CON" or "LIB" in the terms mean left or right. They really don't.

NEOCONs started out liberal in the 1960s and became the war hawks of the late 1990's and into the 2000's. Dick Cheney comes to mind as a poster boy.

NEOLIBS are more globalist and capitalist in philosophy and globalist in intention. I think Bill and Hillery come to mind when that term is used, along with the heads of multi-nationalist corporations.

Any thoughts?

Good discussion.

a reply to: Grambler

I think the left is seen as a vessel to be exploited by those wanting to continue the expansion of military industrial complex.

They'll be back to Republicans as we all know is their usual tool.

But for now it appears the left are the war hawks of the moment since Trump is trying to dial back.

a reply to: Grambler

I would like to see a poll taken by only vets or active duty servicemen on the subject of war.

a reply to: soundguy

Says the person who posted a very pointed OP with FACEBOOK as a source. Forgive me if I question the validity of anything you say here.

a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

I think you're playing semantics with old definitions.

Neo means new, so it's a way to say "new factions on the left/right are trying to do ________" without saying everyone on the left/right are complicit.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Grambler

I would like to see a poll taken by only vets or active duty servicemen on the subject of war.

I'm hardpressed to find anyone amongst those I deployed with that thinks we should keep going for another generation. We WANTED to be in Afghanistan because that was our job. But we were soldiers. We're supposed to be motivated to fight.

When I got home I felt that maybe it was winding down. We shut down two major FOBs in my AO while we were there. I had every reason to believe we were gonna leave Afghanistan soon. That was 2014. I left the Army in 2016, but before I did I spent the previous year training soldiers to deploy between physical therapy sessions.

Enough is enough.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Glenn Greenwald has done some very fine work. He gets the facts and report them He then gives you an interpretation of those facts (sometimes), but at least you can follow his reasoning. Many times today we get reporting that is just the interpretation, with some facts that back and agenda, and other facts deliberately left out.

This is dishonest, in both journalism and general discussions or more formal argument. The greatest dishonesty, however, is to continually spread false statements when one knows they have been debunked. I won't offer examples here because I don't want to draw this productive thread off topic. But we ALL know what I am talking about...

Thanks.

originally posted by: DAVID64
"Send our troops to die because We Hate Trump"

F**king pathetic.

Liberal Democrats have gone insane on several fronts. One female Congressman on CNN yesterday implied that the lives of KURDS in Syria, are more important than the lives of American citizens here at home.

"Trump is leaving the poor Kurds exposed, and focusing on border security. He's out of control!"

a reply to: projectvxn

Yeah.


I agree.

Enough is enough.

a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

No one is going to argue that Glenn, as with the trending media of these days don't inject opinion into their work.

That said, in this thread I haven't seen any actual discussion opposing OP in the thread so far (sorry to someone if you did and I missed it).

People are going out of their way to dance around the subject.

That seems telling.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

I think you're playing semantics with old definitions.

Neo means new, so it's a way to say "new factions on the left/right are trying to do ________" without saying everyone on the left/right are complicit.

I disagree with your statement, but I am open to learning new facts. Words have meanings. We have to agree on what terms mean if we are to have productive discussions. I used a common source - Wiki - because it is fast, self correcting, and generally reliable. There are critiques of Wiki, I agree.

I am also using Wiki because in this case it generally agrees with many books and articles I have read over the years from a variety of sources on these two terms. If you have a better way to define the terms, have at it!!.

As I said, I am open to learn new facts.

a reply to: iplay1up2

When you have the Secretary of Defense, a General telling you why it is a mistake to pull out, and trump, with ZERO, military experience saying F U, I am pulling out anyway. That is straight up WRONG, no matter how you spin it.

When's the last war we've won?

Since when do generals call the shots?

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

No one is going to argue that Glenn, as with the trending media of these days don't inject opinion into their work.

That said, in this thread I haven't seen any actual discussion opposing OP in the thread so far (sorry to someone if you did and I missed it).

People are going out of their way to dance around the subject.

That seems telling.

Not only that, we can see that at least in our small little circle here on ats, the poll is playing out, as trump supporters seem to be defending pulling out, and those that dislike him are against pulling out.

The point I am making in the thread is that it is frightening that people are so willing to change their mind on a hugely important issue based on if it benefits there team or not.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Glenn has been frustrated with the perversion and bastardization of the left, confusing some people about where he stands.

Every liberal I speak to from my generation is pretty confused about it all too.

We went from wanting a society where we treat each other as equals, to identity-politics based segregation. We've gone from anti-war, to say nothing about the war because it's our guy doing it, to being for war because the Orange Man DOESN'T want to do it.

This whole thing is one big # show lead by leftists leading good liberals down the road to hell.

Progressives protested against Obama going into Syria in the first place.

Now they protest that Trump is pulling out of a warrantless, morally bankrupt and reprehensible intervention to prevent Syria ending her brutal civil war

Trump could personally cure cancer and there would be riots in the streets for #CancerCellsMatter

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

No one is going to argue that Glenn, as with the trending media of these days don't inject opinion into their work.

That said, in this thread I haven't seen any actual discussion opposing OP in the thread so far (sorry to someone if you did and I missed it).

People are going out of their way to dance around the subject.

That seems telling.

Not only that, we can see that at least in our small little circle here on ats, the poll is playing out, as trump supporters seem to be defending pulling out, and those that dislike him are against pulling out.

The point I am making in the thread is that it is frightening that people are so willing to change their mind on a hugely important issue based on if it benefits there team or not.

The point is clear.

I made a thread right after Trump announced we were leaving Syria saying this was happening.

It really is sad.

a reply to: Grambler


i agree it is frightening considering the one who wants to pull out has zero military experince and is ignoring those on his own team who do..