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The reality of hypnotism and its link to abductions

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posted on Nov, 17 2018 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
There's also an unavoidable influence of the hypnotist and the interplay of memes and memories they share in client/hypnotist dynamic. That's why Hopkins/Jacobs only got horror stories and Mack/Sprinkle only got spiritual ones. Mack's epitomised the spirit of the Summer of Love and Jacobs' came straight from Orwell's 1984 crossed with Alien.


I think it must be more than wishful-thinking and subtle prompting on the researchers part, although this is obviously a well-demonstrated phenomena with hypnosis, that there is also a significant part being played by the subjects in who they choose to get treated by and why they seek such assistance. I suppose what I am getting at, is do you think that because two distinct emotional conditions have been found to be the consequence of this research, horror or summer of love, that that means one or both are "wrong" or that the answer lies somewhere between? Or do you think we should disregard the "evidence" entirely because it is in someway tainted by the hypnotists bias?

I kind of think that both can be "right", a fire can look beautiful if viewed at a distance from an ivory tower, when it is lapping at your heels you are unlikely to be as appreciative of it's aesthetics. I don't think that that is the only example that can be applied to explain why experiences may differ, I just wonder whether it is as straight forward as Mack leading them one way rather than another, and that there may be a reason why his patients came to him if all they were full of was experiences full of sunshine and flowers - why did they need help if that was the case?




posted on Nov, 17 2018 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
When you interact with a person who is truly hypnotized you will understand that they really believe what ever suggestion has been given to them. However, on some level they are aware of the truth, which is why it's still hard to convince someone to do something they really don't want to do using hypnosis. What Derren demonstrates in his latest Netflix special where he convinces a white nationalist guy to sacrifice his own life for an illegal immigrant wasn't hypnotism, it was more of a slow conditioning process designed to increase empathy levels and encourage heroism. Hypnotism is rapidly induced and usually doesn't last long, the methods used by the hypnotist temporarily alter the state of consciousness.



This very neatly explained. An important distinction, thanks for making it so clearly.

It has, of course, also been well utilised in modern history in reverse, to dehumanise an enemy and create a "soldier".



posted on Nov, 17 2018 @ 05:51 PM
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screen memories were a excuse created by """"abduction researchers""""" to ignore high strangeness cases and support the idiotic ETH hypothesys wich explains litteraly nothing about the phenomena

there i said it



posted on Nov, 17 2018 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

thats because abductions just like all paranormal phenomena are caused by the entity, you know who



posted on Nov, 18 2018 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

We just finished watching the Hero at 30,000 ft.
Man that’s crazy.
Another good one by the same hypnotist is The Push.
A man is brought into a world of chaos, when all he wanted to do was volunteer for some charity event.
By the end, he could be murderer



posted on Nov, 18 2018 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Excellent thread, I'm planning on revisiting it to read the links and comments because it's a fascinating subject and you've put thought and work into it.

We're all suggestible to an extend, hypnosis often plays on fundamental cognitive processes, probably not so different from what we know as brainwashing. Ever known a wilfully ignorant person? I think desire plays a large role, people who can choose that trait are seemingly a lot more difficult to influence.

Looking forward to delving deeper



posted on Nov, 18 2018 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: KilgoreTrout



I think it must be more than wishful-thinking and subtle prompting on the researchers part, although this is obviously a well-demonstrated phenomena with hypnosis, that there is also a significant part being played by the subjects in who they choose to get treated by and why they seek such assistance.


I favour Mack's good practice over Hopkins/Jacobs because he was trained to understand the need for objectivity in research. There's definitely a factor of self-selection in play too as subjects gravitated to certain researchers. This was compounded by Hopkins/Jacobs because they wouldn't entertain positive regressions and either dismissed them as 'screen memories' or declined to accept 'experiencers' over 'abductees.' A lot of this came out a few years ago.



I suppose what I am getting at, is do you think that because two distinct emotional conditions have been found to be the consequence of this research, horror or summer of love, that that means one or both are "wrong" or that the answer lies somewhere between?


I'm really on the fence regarding the totality of the reports. The early regressions had core themes before the subject became well known and I find them quite intriguing. There's a presumption that abductees/experiencers were pre-loaded by exposure to sci-fi and aliens in popular culture (suggestibility again) and I don't have a lot of confidence in it. No doubt it's a factor that probably increased in influence as the abduction phenomenon became widely known. Despite that, I still think we haven't really explained it all.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: ChaoticOrder


We're all suggestible to an extend, hypnosis often plays on fundamental cognitive processes, probably not so different from what we know as brainwashing.


I'm not too sure if professionals know where long term memory is actually stored but here's a good one from Derren about accessing reliable short term memory:





I suppose it depends on the motives of the practitioner but in a lot of abduction cases people are completely baffled as to what's happened to them and hypnosis is the only recourse of action (like the researcher in the video below says, they can't go to their MP or MD).





Also interesting that this lady thinks 'she should not remember her experience' - whoever or whatever blanked her mind out.


See 3:40


edit on 19-11-2018 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder




This is where the abduction phenomenon starts to seem a bit more plausible. When someone claims that aliens can alter their memories and cover up memories with so called "screen memories" it sounds very fantastic and outside the realm of what is believable. Researchers have often wondered why they would even leave any trace of the abduction memory if they were advanced enough to cover up memories. However they aren't really altering or erasing the memories at all, they are suppressing them using hypnotism, this would be especially easy for the abductors since the entire experience would already seem like a dream to begin with, and they probably have technology to make it easier.


they and the aliens simply being humans.

The dots are so large and so highlighted when it comes to hypnotism and alien abduction that its a wonder why so many cannot see it.

Could they be hypnotized or programmed to a certain extent to be blinded to whats so clear to a very few?






All it takes is a reasonable understanding of psychology, and I'm sure their understanding is highly advanced if they're able to travel interstellar distances or if they are time travelers from the future.


Yep just keep making those dots bigger and brighter

However many are just programmed not to see it.

there is one species that without a doubt know quiet a bit about its own psychology and the same species has been abducting one another for as long as we have been around.





I realize that my argument about hypnotism being real isn't helped by talking about this even crazier stuff, but it's a topic I haven't really seen discussed before and it doesn't help us to assign godlike powers to these beings, they operate within the same laws of physics that we do, they don't have magic powers.



I have never heard of anyone cla9imingh hypnotism isn't real

What I have see much of on ATS is hypnosis as a means to remember traumatic things is what the issue is and cannot be done to a degree that is accurate and depicts what really happened as opposed to what the suggestible mind has created to fill in any blanks.



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

What I have see much of on ATS is hypnosis as a means to remember traumatic things is what the issue is and cannot be done to a degree that is accurate and depicts what really happened as opposed to what the suggestible mind has created to fill in any blanks.


When the mind "creates" to "fill in blanks"; What do y'all think the probability of that "creation" being real is? Or, more to the point, what do y'all think the probability of remembering, and, drawing something that cannot be seen from anywhere near Earth might be?



posted on Nov, 19 2018 @ 11:55 PM
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Hypnotism grew out of Mesmerism.

Mesmerism It is said that mesmerism, was the precursor of hypnotism. Named after Dr Franz Mesmer.



Mesmer studied the old mystics and the other contemporary works prepared by the Rosicrucian’s and (re-?) discovered means by healing using will-power and "electric fluid". This fluid was somehow connected to the human soul, and he accumulated it by wearing a leather tunic lined with silk.

Source: 2015 ATS thread Harmoney Secret Society


A healing technique? Probably so, but as any doctor could tell you; medical knowledge can be used for other purposes.. Medical knowledge makes for a successful torturer for instance.

Mesmer not only founded the Harmony Society, he also had a lot to do with the Bravarian Illuminati and other occult societies. (There are links in the above thread on the Harmony.)

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Knowledge is not power. Ignorance is power. Other people's ignorence.

The secret societies know this well.

Okay, personal anecdote time just to give food for thought.

A few weeks ago I had a little encounter with a "grey". I mentioned the encounter in another thread.

The encounter is not important. Something occured during the encounter. When the "grey" got too close and we looked into each others eyes, that was a setup for mesmeric passes.

In short her idea at the time was to insert into me some of her magnetism in order to take control.

I call them "greys" with inverted commas because I am still unsure what they really are.

So, based on this, I would suggest there is a basis for the idea of using mesmerism on humans by "parties unknown".

Human mind control works best on humans.

Endnote. The small yellow grey still comes to visit. She is a bit of a problem child one might suggest. I call her a child because she has an emotional age of 9 years of age in a human. Though she is older chronologically. They chose her because I won't hurt children where an adult grey would wear a garden spade over his head very quickly. She is not a hybrid, she was made in a laboratory from human chromosomes.

She still tries B/S stunts to worm her way in. They are quite cunning.



posted on Nov, 20 2018 @ 07:08 AM
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afterthought for the enquiring mind.

Dr Albert Moll's 1890 work Hypnotism gives an idea of the distinction between hypnotism and mesmerism. Free from the digital Archive.



posted on Nov, 20 2018 @ 09:21 AM
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originally posted by: james1947

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

What I have see much of on ATS is hypnosis as a means to remember traumatic things is what the issue is and cannot be done to a degree that is accurate and depicts what really happened as opposed to what the suggestible mind has created to fill in any blanks.


When the mind "creates" to "fill in blanks"; What do y'all think the probability of that "creation" being real is? Or, more to the point, what do y'all think the probability of remembering, and, drawing something that cannot be seen from anywhere near Earth might be?





Stop beating around the bush and ask a direct question so I and others don't need assume what you are getting at.


The questions are way to vague and it seems like you have actual things in mind.

What is the probability of that creation being real? anywhere from highly likely to not at all.

It depends on what the mind has created to fill in the blanks, it depends on whether how much trauma one suffered to create an unbalance.


any examples of what you have in mind about drawing something, if its a certain map by someone called Betty please save your breath.



posted on Nov, 20 2018 @ 09:46 AM
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originally posted by: InhaleExhale

Stop beating around the bush and ask a direct question so I and others don't need assume what you are getting at.

The questions are way to vague and it seems like you have actual things in mind.

What is the probability of that creation being real? anywhere from highly likely to not at all.

It depends on what the mind has created to fill in the blanks, it depends on whether how much trauma one suffered to create an unbalance.

any examples of what you have in mind about drawing something, if its a certain map by someone called Betty please save your breath.


Well, it is, after all, my breath; is it not?

I wasn't beating any bush, and the question isn't "vague"...just sort of take it a face value. Although, it appears as though you are the wrong person to ask that question of.

I wanting to know what y'all think of the probability that a "creation" of the Human mind, in an attempt to understand, might be real. This has nothing to due to levels of trauma, nor any degrees of "imbalance"; it has to do with the mind not knowing, so it creates something to fill in that "blank".

As for someone called "Betty"; I already know the probability of that...do you?



posted on Nov, 20 2018 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: InhaleExhale


The dots are so large and so highlighted when it comes to hypnotism and alien abduction that its a wonder why so many cannot see it.

It seems like it should be obvious, I wonder how it took so long for me to see it. Even some of the regression hypnotists don't seem to realize they are using hypnotism to unlock memories suppressed with hypnotism. It doesn't really become obvious until you listen to multiple regression sessions, then it becomes quite apparent they have the ability to do things like instantly calm a person down or even freeze their motor controls, and their eyes have some role in it. They almost always use this ability to calm people down during an abduction.

The abductee will say they suddenly feel calm or that they can feel "spiritual vibes" coming from the beings and it makes them feel safe. These feelings are almost certainly elicited through some form of hypnotism, the same abductee will proceed to describe them as very cold and calculated, almost like they have no emotions. It's quite clear, even from the work of people like Mack, that they don't truly feel any sort of emotional attachment to the people they abduct, they put them through horrific exams and they do very little to make the abductee feel comfortable besides eliciting feelings of happiness when it's necessary to make the procedure go smoothly.

Sure I believe they're highly intelligent and probably quite peaceful, but it seems to me they don't quite grasp the concept of boundaries, they may not even see anything wrong with abducting people so long as they are placed back safe and sound like nothing ever happened. They even take up kids along with their parents, placing them on cold metallic exam tables and cutting them open. Should the abductee object they don't care, they will always proceed with their mission regardless of whether they have consent or not. It's for these reasons I find it very hard to buy the "nice guy alien" theory, they may not be evil but they clearly lack empathy. For those who believe people like Mack put a positive spin on it, read chapter 6 of Abduction.


In addition to the raw pain, Jerry felt muscle spasms that were out of her control and extended in rapid succession from her legs to her facial muscles. She screamed for them to stop and was filled with rage. "Here I thought they were somehow perfect and loving beings. How could they have done that to me? I was so terrified I blanked out after that. The next thing I was back in bed waking up."

Abduction, page 120

"They're turning it! They're turning it! Ohhhh! It's inside of me. That's what he stuck inside of me. Ahhhh! That thing! They stuck that thing inside me!" I reassured Jerry as best I could that she would be better when this was over. "It's coming out," she said. "There's a leak. Something's dripping I feel like, in my throat." She was not sure whether this had been blood, saliva, or what. "They're letting me relax. They're awful. They're cruel."

Abduction, page 124

edit on 20/11/2018 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2018 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: karl 12


Also interesting that this lady thinks 'she should not remember her experience' - whoever or whatever blanked her mind out.

That's another very common thing said by abductees, and that's what it would feel like for them if they were told they wont remember the event using hypnotic suggestion. I've been watching videos of regression sessions over the last couple of days and some times the hypnotist will tell the patient they wont remember anything that happened during the session, and I believe Derren has demonstrated the ability to suppress memories on multiple occasions.

This is an interesting regression session for anyone interested:

"They look like a grown fetus, wait a minute they can't be a fetus" I laughed so hard at that part.
edit on 20/11/2018 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2018 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: turbonium1
Nobody ever thought about any aliens from outer space, because Earth was created, and protected, so all life created for Earth could exist, always..

Sadly, it became a world gripped in fear, with aliens, and killer asteroids, etc.

Sounds like somebody fell down on the job.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: james1947




I wanting to know what y'all think of the probability that a "creation" of the Human mind, in an attempt to understand, might be real. This has nothing to due to levels of trauma, nor any degrees of "imbalance"; it has to do with the mind not knowing, so it creates something to fill in that "blank".


and I answered that as best i could after telling you why its vague.

Yet your reply shows how great your level of attention is




it appears as though you are the wrong person to ask that question of.


Because I answered your question not to your liking or because you failed to even realize I did.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 05:16 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Nice, I'm a Derren Brown fanboy too.

Although I'm not sure if a species capable of manipulating the minds of an alien species would need to wait until night time to be effective. Do they ever make mistakes and abduct someone that works nightshift?

I think the message to take from Derren Brown is that we are extremely easily fooled by a wide range of things.



posted on Nov, 21 2018 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: james1947

and I answered that as best i could after telling you why its vague.


Actually you kind of failed on that...You never told me "why" the question was vague. And, I kind of thought it was rather specific...

Your response showed that you don't have a good grasp on the mathematics of probability, just an observation.



Because I answered your question not to your liking or because you failed to even realize I did.


No, because of your obvious bias in one particular case. You are condemning something solely because you have already decided that it is false, and you have based that decision/opinion on bad/obsolete and now invalid information.

It seems to me that One should base what they think they know on the latest, most relevant data available, but, alas, it seems that many have decided to NOT do that.

ETA: You stated that I must have an actual thing in mind when I asked my original question. Yes, I did have an actual thing in mind, however, I was trying to remove that "thing" from the question so as to NOT bias any responses. You however had to attempt to insert a "thing" into the question and provide some "wiggle-room" for data and confirmation bias of your own...thus; you were the wrong person to ask such a question of.

edit on 21-11-2018 by james1947 because: (no reason given)



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