African-American vs American "Slaves"?

When educators and politicians argue for giving more African Americans the chance to thrive at top universities, they see people like UC Berkeley fourth-year student Obi Amajoyi as a perfect example of what they have in mind.

He's a biology major who has emerged as a peer leader and athlete. He recruits high school students and is a member of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity. But while Amajoyi was born in the United States, his parents are from Africa. He considers himself both African American and Nigerian.

"I definitely identify with all the struggles that we as African Americans have had to go through," said Amajoyi, 21. "But at the same time, I have this (other) history from my parents."

But Amajoyi is not a direct descendant of American slaves. And critics say his presence at the university -- and that of other black immigrants and their children -- shows institutions have failed to reach those who were the original targets of diversity outreach efforts.

Affirmative action programs were started in the wake of the 1960s civil rights movement to help African Americans overcome the legacy of slavery and decades of Jim Crow discrimination in employment, education and other fields.

In 1998, the passage of Proposition 209 ended the programs in California and led to -- what many activists say -- a steady decline in African American enrollment. Critics say that the rising number of black immigrants and their children, such as Amajoyi, at the universities has further decreased outreach efforts to African Americans and have raised concerns that American- born blacks will again be left behind.

But outgoing UC Regent Ward Connerly says the debate only shows how affirmative action has always failed to help those blacks most in need.

"Over the years, preference programs, affirmative action programs, have really not benefited low-income blacks, those who were the descendants of slaves," said Connerly. "They have benefited middle- and upper-income blacks.

"Recent immigrants are the beneficiaries of this terribly flawed program, " said Connerly. "The institutions don't care about that -- all they care about is chalking up the numbers."

Connerly says schools run the risk of sowing division between immigrants and African Americans. But he doubts UC officials will do anything to address the issue.

"To a large extent, this has flown beneath the radar," said Connerly. "We (regents) have not discussed it, and I don't think we will."

Nathan Hare, who fought to establish the first ethnic studies program in the United States at San Francisco State University in 1968 and is co-founder of the Black Think Tank in San Francisco, blames these numbers on old stereotypes.

"I have nothing against immigrants, but there are sociological realities we have to look at," said Hare. "They don't have the stereotypes of them being lazy and so on."

Hare says black immigrants often arrive with higher levels of education and are more willing to take low-level jobs, which can affect how quickly they move up in society.

"We'd have a much harder time doing that -- we're supposed to have been past that," said Hare. "We are the ex-slaves and inhabitants of the slums. They (immigrants) are coming in without that (baggage)."

Since 1990, according to immigration figures reported in the New York Times, more African immigrants have arrived in the United States voluntarily than the total who came as slaves before international slave trafficking was outlawed in 1807. More have been coming here annually -- about 50,000 legal immigrants -- than in any of the peak years of the Middle Passage across the Atlantic, and more have migrated here from Africa since 1990 than in nearly the entire preceding two centuries, according to the report.

sfgate.com.../c/a/2005/02/22/MNGIJBF3LP1.DTL

This is an interesting issue, There have been "african-americans" of Eqyptian decent that have been denied access under 'affirmative action" laws because they were not "black".

So now you must be "decendants" of slaves to be "african-american"?
More from the "sanity challenged" on the left..........

The demoratic party needs to let the slaves off the plantation.

Affirmative Action is just a new form of "Slavery".

Affirmative Action is just a new form of "Slavery".

I would say it's a form of prejudice. How is it a new form of slavery? Who is a "slave" as a result of affirmative action?

Originally posted by Zabilgy

Affirmative Action is just a new form of "Slavery".

I would say it's a form of prejudice. How is it a new form of slavery? Who is a "slave" as a result of affirmative action?

The affirmative action slavery is becuase it "assumes" the person is incapable of performing in their own, without the "help" of the Gov. The by product is for example many minority freshmen flunk out of Ivy league schools like "harvard" because they are ill prepared. Not due to race, nor predudice but simple humanity.

Yeah, I heard about this. Some blacks are created more equal than others The whole point of afirmative action was to force people to work with the other races and thereby remove prejudices. Slaver had nothing to do with it, skin color did. Quite racist, but it was effective for a while. Now, it should be phased out and people should have to get into schools/jobs based on their merrits, not skin color.

Hi, I have heard things about you DrHoracid. Things like you spread hate. I don't think so I just think you are ignorant and would like to deny you the chance to spread such awful falsehoods.

Affirmative Action is just a new form of "Slavery".

I won't talk about African-Americans. I will talk about Mexicans. Immigrants and second generation. I worked as the Student Diversity Coordinator in the Office of the President at the Evergreen State College serving under two assistants to the presdient for Equal Opportunity and Civil Rights & Legal Affairs.

In my two years working for them I learned a lot about the different acts of 1964 and believe that they have advanced those who suffered discrimination by society to allow them to integrate into society.

You may have some grief about the current status of Affirmative Action as it has come to be but it is not and will never be 'slavery'

You should be ashamed.

Affirmative action is a system of Quotas. It asks a public institution to employ or enroll the proportionate amount of people from different ethnic background based on updated percentages of demographics per region.

This is in place because without it minorities will be excluded from opportunities from prejudice. You come from the majority of society, you cannot fathom this. You are ignorant.

Originally posted by DrHoracid

Originally posted by Zabilgy

Affirmative Action is just a new form of "Slavery".

I would say it's a form of prejudice. How is it a new form of slavery? Who is a "slave" as a result of affirmative action?

The affirmative action slavery is becuase it "assumes" the person is incapable of performing in their own, without the "help" of the Gov. The by product is for example many minority freshmen flunk out of Ivy league schools like "harvard" because they are ill prepared. Not due to race, nor predudice but simple humanity.

Originally posted by 00PS
Hi, I have heard things about you DrHoracid. Things like you spread hate. I don't think so I just think you are ignorant and would like to deny you the chance to spread such awful falsehoods.


You should be ashamed.

It is sad that you think I spead hate. I do not hate anyone and I am sorry you feel that I do.

Affirmative action keeps minorities "dependent" on the good graces of the government. IE a "slave" to the hand-out's. Perhaps you should study more closely the results of this particular program.

All "persons" are created equal.

PS, Don't "assume" you anything about my personal background, you do not.

Read the article..................the debate is all about keeping "hand-outs" for some and denying equality to others all in the same "minority".

Not only do you spread falsehoods you like to twist peoples words to make them mean things they didn't mean in the first place. That's almost as bad a lying.

I have heard people on this board say you like to spread hate. I don't think so. Now I have written it again. I would like to see you write that I do think you spread hate one more time. If you do I will realize there might actually be some real handicaps on your side and refrain from ever trying to reason with you again.

I think you are ignorant on this whole subject and are talking out your butt. What do you know about Affirmative Actions or the Equal Rights acts of '64 and '68 or TRIO funded programs. Probably nothing. They are about everything from where minorities can live and where they can go to school, how they can participate in society, and many other aspects of their life. Why did we need these laws? You must have forgotten 500 years of oppression.

I would love to share comments like yours with professors and administrators of public and private organizations, who value diversity and see affirmative action as the only way to ensure that the majority will live in a diverse atmosphere and working climate.

Let's see what kinda twist you can put on these words DrSpin

The story the Dr is talking about is a prof who is saying blacks who can trace their roots back to American slavery should be considered for affirmative action over those Americans who came from South America or Cuba, but black as well. This, in my opinion, makes him no better than that sons of the american revolution group or whatever they're called. To say that some blacks are more equal than others because they can trace their roots farther back in American history...Well, you decide.

P.S. Before you rant on about how minorities need the hand outs of the government and that those who didn't get one just get to die in the gutter stupid and diseased, check these authors out.

W.E.B. du Bois

and

Frederick Douglass

Through their activism, lawyership, writing, and spirit they worked to end slavery and to find the best answer to integrate the black man into white society. They argued about the 'talented tenth' that only ten percent of the population will be talented enough to compete in the highest eschelons of white society and they argued about vocational/work schools instead of universities. They argued many things but always worked in unison behind the scenes to set the stage for their peoples succesful emergence into the American society as full members.

And unless you know the history of these policies and where they come from, how can you judge them.

Originally, civil rights programs were enacted to help African Americans become full citizens of the United States. The Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution made slavery illegal; the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees equal protection under the law; the Fifteenth Amendment forbids racial discrimination in access to voting. The 1866 Civil Rights Act guarantees every citizen "the same right to make and enforce contracts ... as is enjoyed by white citizens ... "
In 1896, the Supreme Court's decision in Plessy v. Ferguson upheld a "separate, but equal" doctrine that proved to be anything but equal for African Americans. The decision marked the end of the post-Civil War reconstruction era as Jim Crow laws spread across the South.
In 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 8802 which outlawed segregationist hiring policies by defense-related industries which held federal contracts. Roosevelt's signing of this order was a direct result of efforts by Black trade union leader, A. Philip Randolph.
During 1953 President Harry S. Truman's Committee on Government Contract Compliance urged the Bureau of Employment Security "to act positively and affirmatively to implement the policy of nondiscrimination . . . ."
The 1954 Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board of Education overturned Plessy v. Ferguson.
The actual phrase "affirmative action" was first used in President Lyndon Johnson's 1965 Executive Order 11246 which requires federal contractors to "take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."
In 1967, Johnson expanded the Executive Order to include affirmative action requirements to benefit women.
Other equal protection laws passed to make discrimination illegal were the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Title II and VII of which forbid racial discrimination in "public accommodations" and race and sex discrimination in employment, respectively; and the 1965 Voting Rights Act adopted after Congress found "that racial discrimination in voting was an insidious and pervasive evil which had been perpetuated in certain parts of the country through unremitting and ingenious defiance of the Constitution."

Please do not try to lecture me about "hate" .........nor twisting words.....

try this link also........

www.law.berkeley.edu...



[edit on 24-2-2005 by DrHoracid]

I'll do neither again, I find speaking to you rather unpleasant.

You do twist words. People say you like to spread hate.

And pasting a timeline doesn't mean anything. The point is
you don't have the knowledge about Affirmative Action and
it shows. All you can read and discern is from what you have
read. But sorry the gist of human relationships goes beyond
a mere read. I have many years of experience working with
the Affirmative Action program both in the public and private
sphere in the state of Washington. It's very plain to see there
is no conversation here. Your original post was a bunch of
other peoples writing with you last punch line that affirmative
action is slavery. Thats bull and you know it.

Originally posted by 00PS
P.S. Before you rant on about how minorities need the hand outs of the government and that those who didn't get one just get to die in the gutter stupid and diseased, check these authors out.

First of all, minorities DO NOT NEED hand-outs. Read............

Affirmative Action is holding back many minorities. Your pre-concieved hate for ME is clouding your eyesight. Read the article.............and the previous link..........Equality know no COLOR............NOR SEX.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Affirmative action keeps minorities "dependent" on the good graces of the government. IE a "slave" to the hand-out's.

Originally posted by DrHoracidFirst of all, minorities DO NOT NEED hand-outs. Read............

Which one should I believe? They are slaves or they don't need handouts...wow!


"The problem of the 20th century is the color line" W.E.B. du Bois

"Equality know no COLOR" DrSpin

"There is no @*#$(# Equality, never has and never will be. There will always be color. This is why we need policies to Blind peoples eyes." - ME

OOPS, Just a question: Given your experience, is it the case that American institutions deny equal opportunities, or are the acts that constitute racism individual acts that are not accepted by institutions?
I don't accept the position on the question that A.A = slavery, but implimentation seems to be an ad-hoc, and I have seen black middle-upper class kids catch breaks thier poor white and black kids are denied.
In your view, is a color-blind policy even possible?

Originally posted by 00PS

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Affirmative action keeps minorities "dependent" on the good graces of the government. IE a "slave" to the hand-out's.

Originally posted by DrHoracidFirst of all, minorities DO NOT NEED hand-outs. Read............

Which one should I believe? They are slaves or they don't need handouts...wow!


"The problem of the 20th century is the color line" W.E.B. du Bois

"Equality know no COLOR" DrSpin

"There is no @*#$(# Equality, never has and never will be. There will always be color. This is why we need policies to Blind peoples eyes." - ME

It is obvious your own predudice is blinding.

One more time.

Affirmative Action "keeps" minorities dependent on someone else instead of their own intellegence, character, and initiative. Now it is pitting minority against minority, black against black. Can you not see that as 'slavery"? Control of your life by someone else?

The longer one keeps pointing out differences the longer there will be predudice. The planet is ONE race..get over it..........read my dear friends work........you may have heard of him...........MLK?

du Bois said the problem of the 20th century was the color line and I contend that the problem extends into the 21st century.

Systems are systems and abuses are abuses and even Kofi Annan's sun has abused the system of the U.N. or how about Hu Jing Tao's son or George Bushes two sons.

The point I am arguing here is not the beauty of A.A. but that DrHoracid is flambouyantly throwing around words with meanings probably just to get reactions like mine. A.A. is not slavery. Abuses of all systems exist. However...

Affirmative Action is one of the only ally administrators and teachers have get diverse perspectives into institutions, organisations, and classrooms. The system works in this aspect. Without it we would revert back to a more heterogenous society where white is right and all others are wrong.

We've gotten to a point where the majority of the majority feel A.A. is hurting them when they are still hurting the minority. Oppression still exists. So we will never have a color-blind policy. But until then we need policies that serve to look at proportions of society and exqual representation in at least public institutions.

We are not just talking about what schools accept minorities, we are also talking about ensuring that minorities can live anywhere they want to. If we didn't have these quota and percentage systems they whites would have white neighborhoods and the minorities would live in the ghettos with no services like the majority neighborhoods.

Originally posted by DrHoracid

Originally posted by 00PS

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Affirmative action keeps minorities "dependent" on the good graces of the government. IE a "slave" to the hand-out's.

Originally posted by DrHoracidFirst of all, minorities DO NOT NEED hand-outs. Read............

Which one should I believe? They are slaves or they don't need handouts...wow!


"The problem of the 20th century is the color line" W.E.B. du Bois

"Equality know no COLOR" DrSpin

"There is no @*#$(# Equality, never has and never will be. There will always be color. This is why we need policies to Blind peoples eyes." - ME

It is obvious your own predudice is blinding.

One more time.

Affirmative Action "keeps" minorities dependent on someone else instead of their own intellegence, character, and initiative. Now it is pitting minority against minority, black against black. Can you not see that as 'slavery"? Control of your life by someone else?

The longer one keeps pointing out differences the longer there will be predudice. The planet is ONE race..get over it..........read my dear friends work........you may have heard of him...........MLK?

Sorry I read my fathers dear friends work more and thats the work of M.X
Affirmative Action doesn't not keep minorities dependent. And if this is the basis of your arguement it's funny. The planet is not one race, there are many races. There should never be one race. Beauty lies in diversity.

I was a teacher once in USA and I worked for Upward Bound, its a Federally Funded Program administered by TRIO. You should read about it. It really helps students. TRIO finds young people who have talent but guess what, to get the funding they need to meet two requirements. 1, their parents have never been to college or university, 2, they fall below the poverty line. This is a program among 7 that were created from the Civil Rights act of 1964. It does not look at the color of anyones skin. The majority of my students were mexican and black and native american. There was one minority boy, he was white and poor and his parents had never been to college. For these students, they try but they don't have the background to succeed in todays world, they don't live in a community were being successful in academics may be popular or even a good thing. Affirmative Action helps these young people succeed. They get mentorship and financial assistance and special community building skill exercises. Without them they will succumb to the social pressures of being a minority. The government helps them, they choose to be helped. The rest of the minorities are not dependent.

well thank you to the super duper moderator AMUK for warning me once at 10:29 and again at 10:30pm, wow 2 warns in 2 minutes...That's a great way to build community here at ATS...Let's get another warn for this one, my last one. I am done!!! Thanks MODS

Originally posted by 00PS
well thank you to the super duper moderator AMUK for warning me once at 10:29 and again at 10:30pm, wow 2 warns in 2 minutes...That's a great way to build community here at ATS...Let's get another warn for this one, my last one. I am done!!! Thanks MODS

you are welcome.

I should have given you a third one for your third "your ignorant" remark but I let it slide. If you cant get your point across without calling names don't post. If you have a problem U2U me or file a complaint.