It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

African-American vs American "Slaves"?

page: 3
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 05:58 AM
link   
I dont need to ignore you oops, unlike you I am not threatened by what other people say. Nor am I threatened by your opinion of me, or by your inabillity to admit that AA is flawed. Ignore me if you like I could care less. Allthough I do wonder why, if what I say is so offensive, and you are truly ignoring me for the reasons you say, you felt the need to tell me I was being ignored.
Telling someone you are ignoring them is just a cry for attention.




posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 06:13 AM
link   
To the people who are continuing to read this forum please look at some writings on the net to help you understand that both positions can be looked at as right and wrong on the subject of A.A.

The question is, should we still have it. Does it take away from society more than it's suppose to help build a better one.

People who have no understanding of the system can go either way. It's just too sad too many white people will condemn it without knowledge of it. Please read some information to understand 1, how A.A. became a concept and 2, how it was implemented and 3, how it operates and exists today.

www.csaf.org... (A more eloquent arguement between 3 parties on the 'racism' of A.A.)

My wife is Chinese and just asked me what I have been writing about so much. I said something you don't know about. It's A.A. it was created over forty years ago because white people were so racist black people couldn't live where they wanted to, go to school where they wanted or find jobs that they wanted to. And now over forty years later, the same white people are crying that the policies put in place to make sure racism doesn't exist is racist in itself. They have all forgotten. I assure you the black people haven't forgot because they still live under a racist oppressive society today. And that is why A.A. is still in place and will be for a long time.

And what's funny is that A.A. isn't for black people alone, its for white women, poor whites, mexicans, immigrants and people whose family are underpriviliged.

That's what makes me sick to see priviliged people write A.A. is slavery and racism. Oh My Fricking God this website is to deny Ignorance, but too many people if you can call them that are going around spreading falsehoods and lies. BIG THUMBS DOWN FOR ATS



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 07:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by 00PS
And what's funny is that A.A. isn't for black people alone, its for white women, poor whites, mexicans, immigrants and people whose family are underpriviliged.

That's what makes me sick to see priviliged people write A.A. is slavery and racism. Oh My Fricking God this website is to deny Ignorance, but too many people if you can call them that are going around spreading falsehoods and lies. BIG THUMBS DOWN FOR ATS


Dude, you have a serious problem. AA is the most vile form of slavery, you don't even know someone else "owns" you. You think "they" are helping you but in fact the system keeps you and all minorities under "state" control.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 08:01 AM
link   
well A.A. never helped me and look at me now 25 and healthy and living in a foreign country. I'm educated, married and happy. Now how does this make me a slave to the state.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 08:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by 00PS
well A.A. never helped me and look at me now 25 and healthy and living in a foreign country. I'm educated, married and happy. Now how does this make me a slave to the state.


No you make my point. You didn't need AA. You are FREE......be sure and visit the forbidden city. Or are you near HK. I travel there often, would love to have lunch........



posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 02:50 PM
link   
oops, I have to admire your intensity on the issue, but you've been dealing with a couple of the most ignorant on this websit. I don't know what they've been saying nor do I care because I started ignoring them some time ago. I agree with your views on Affirmative action after a couple decades agop becoming the first latino supervisor for a very conservative corporation and broke the chains of slavery to goon into management positions in companies that produce many of the black aircraft this web site love to speculate about.



posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 03:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by DrHoracid
When educators and politicians argue for giving more African Americans the chance to thrive at top universities, they see people like UC Berkeley fourth-year student Obi Amajoyi as a perfect example of what they have in mind.

He's a biology major who has emerged as a peer leader and athlete. He recruits high school students and is a member of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity. But while Amajoyi was born in the United States, his parents are from Africa. He considers himself both African American and Nigerian.

"I definitely identify with all the struggles that we as African Americans have had to go through," said Amajoyi, 21. "But at the same time, I have this (other) history from my parents."

But Amajoyi is not a direct descendant of American slaves. And critics say his presence at the university -- and that of other black immigrants and their children -- shows institutions have failed to reach those who were the original targets of diversity outreach efforts.

Affirmative action programs were started in the wake of the 1960s civil rights movement to help African Americans overcome the legacy of slavery and decades of Jim Crow discrimination in employment, education and other fields.

In 1998, the passage of Proposition 209 ended the programs in California and led to -- what many activists say -- a steady decline in African American enrollment. Critics say that the rising number of black immigrants and their children, such as Amajoyi, at the universities has further decreased outreach efforts to African Americans and have raised concerns that American- born blacks will again be left behind.

But outgoing UC Regent Ward Connerly says the debate only shows how affirmative action has always failed to help those blacks most in need.

"Over the years, preference programs, affirmative action programs, have really not benefited low-income blacks, those who were the descendants of slaves," said Connerly. "They have benefited middle- and upper-income blacks.

"Recent immigrants are the beneficiaries of this terribly flawed program, " said Connerly. "The institutions don't care about that -- all they care about is chalking up the numbers."

Connerly says schools run the risk of sowing division between immigrants and African Americans. But he doubts UC officials will do anything to address the issue.

"To a large extent, this has flown beneath the radar," said Connerly. "We (regents) have not discussed it, and I don't think we will."

Nathan Hare, who fought to establish the first ethnic studies program in the United States at San Francisco State University in 1968 and is co-founder of the Black Think Tank in San Francisco, blames these numbers on old stereotypes.

"I have nothing against immigrants, but there are sociological realities we have to look at," said Hare. "They don't have the stereotypes of them being lazy and so on."

Hare says black immigrants often arrive with higher levels of education and are more willing to take low-level jobs, which can affect how quickly they move up in society.

"We'd have a much harder time doing that -- we're supposed to have been past that," said Hare. "We are the ex-slaves and inhabitants of the slums. They (immigrants) are coming in without that (baggage)."

Since 1990, according to immigration figures reported in the New York Times, more African immigrants have arrived in the United States voluntarily than the total who came as slaves before international slave trafficking was outlawed in 1807. More have been coming here annually -- about 50,000 legal immigrants -- than in any of the peak years of the Middle Passage across the Atlantic, and more have migrated here from Africa since 1990 than in nearly the entire preceding two centuries, according to the report.

sfgate.com.../c/a/2005/02/22/MNGIJBF3LP1.DTL

This is an interesting issue, There have been "african-americans" of Eqyptian decent that have been denied access under 'affirmative action" laws because they were not "black".

So now you must be "decendants" of slaves to be "african-american"?
More from the "sanity challenged" on the left..........

The demoratic party needs to let the slaves off the plantation.

Affirmative Action is just a new form of "Slavery".





A question: why you Americans call black people 'African Americans', while you don't call whites 'European Americans'? isn't it a little bit hypocritical? blacks are US citizens, just like whites are.



posted on Feb, 27 2005 @ 04:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by masterpA question: why you Americans call black people 'African Americans', while you don't call whites 'European Americans'? isn't it a little bit hypocritical? blacks are US citizens, just like whites are.


Many Americans of European Decents are afraid to say BLACK...come on everyone, say it together.

BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL!



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 03:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by 00PS

Originally posted by masterpA question: why you Americans call black people 'African Americans', while you don't call whites 'European Americans'? isn't it a little bit hypocritical? blacks are US citizens, just like whites are.


Many Americans of European Decents are afraid to say BLACK...come on everyone, say it together.

BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL!


Why do we have to refer to color? just say 'some fellow', 'hey you', 'Jim' etc without reference to color. After having hang out with people from all 'races', I see absolutely no difference between people. We are all the same color.



posted on Mar, 2 2005 @ 12:10 AM
link   
You do know that AA is only applicable to blue-collar pissing matches right?

Ask yourself this: "When was the last time I was denied something because they didn't have enough black people?" Then you will see how foolish the AA rant is.

The fact is that since I have been in the workforce, EOE has been the primary influence on hiring...even in the deep racist South.

AA is outdated and is really not applicable unless you wanna go back at least twenty years ago. But you cannot completely piss on the AA cause. When it was indoctrinated, even in the "black part" of the neighborhood you could find nothing but us lovely crackers working gas stations, attendants, etc...pretty much everything. They came up with a plan counter act that. Maybe it was too much of an ideal, but something had to change. Whenever you have a 95% populated area and still have a 97% white run business there is something wrong. And do not tell me those "thugs" didn't want to work. That is horse sh*t. The law of averages keeps that from happening in one black community, let alone all of them.



posted on Mar, 2 2005 @ 06:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by mwm1331
Affirmitive action is wrong on so many levels.
It is wrong becuase it is racism, reverse racism is still racism.
It is wrong because it sends the message minorites aren't good enough to succeed on thier own whch s demeaning, prejudiced, and idiotic.
It is wrong because it determines who get what by thier skn color rather than by whter or not they earned it.
It is wrong becuase it is no longer necessary.
Minorities are just as smart, ambitious, and competent as anyone else. To say otherwise is racism. Tos say minorities can not do it on thier own is racism. To say that they can not compete is racism. If you support AA you are a racist.


Or maybe, just maybe, it's right because it works to combat years of systemic racist policies?

When you get on your high-horse and claim to be color blind (and worse yet, claim that race is no longer an issue) you are turning a blind eye to every racist person and every racist policy that exists. Whether you like to face it or not, race is still an incredibly imporatant factor today. AA has nothing to do with handouts, it has less to do with demeaning people and it has nothing to do with saying that minorities aren't capable...its the opposite. It insures that people who are capable of competing are given a chance to compete...that's it. It strips away at racist institutions, systems, policies and people that would like to insure that certain segments of society are never given a chance to compete.

Say what you will about how the policy is implemented, but to claim moral superiority because you want to live with your head in the sand and deny centuries of systemic inequalites is as racist as it gets. That's great that you don't see race as a factor (Well, you think its great, I don't) but at least recognize that alot of people and places still discriminate by race, because if you don't do that...all your doing is enabling further racism.

[edit on 2-3-2005 by robotbot]


MBF

posted on Mar, 2 2005 @ 10:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by masterp

A question: why you Americans call black people 'African Americans', while you don't call whites 'European Americans'? isn't it a little bit hypocritical? blacks are US citizens, just like whites are.


THEY don't know what they want to be called. African American is the term they want to be refered to as right now. Next year they may want to be called something else.

I have been in a battle with one for about 6 years that has a government job. He has caused me to lose most of what it has taken all my life to obtain. I have had multiple hearings and meetings to try to streighten out the mess that he has caused, but I can't get anything done because he is a govt employee. They have even tried to forclose on me 2 times for a loan that I have already repaid and overpaid. The man IS too ignorant to have the job that he has. Nobody that stupid should have a job that they can ruin other peoples lives.

I think that all people deserve equal and fair chances in life reguardless of their skin color, but sometimes it can be taken too far. The situation that I'm facing is one of them. He is even a known cocain dealer, but nothing will be done because of his skin color. The funny thing about this is that now he has sued the govt because he was turned down for a job. He wasn't qualified for that one either.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 02:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by robotbot

Originally posted by mwm1331
Affirmitive action is wrong on so many levels.
It is wrong becuase it is racism, reverse racism is still racism.
It is wrong because it sends the message minorites aren't good enough to succeed on thier own whch s demeaning, prejudiced, and idiotic.
It is wrong because it determines who get what by thier skn color rather than by whter or not they earned it.
It is wrong becuase it is no longer necessary.
Minorities are just as smart, ambitious, and competent as anyone else. To say otherwise is racism. Tos say minorities can not do it on thier own is racism. To say that they can not compete is racism. If you support AA you are a racist.


Or maybe, just maybe, it's right because it works to combat years of systemic racist policies?

When you get on your high-horse and claim to be color blind (and worse yet, claim that race is no longer an issue) you are turning a blind eye to every racist person and every racist policy that exists. Whether you like to face it or not, race is still an incredibly imporatant factor today. AA has nothing to do with handouts, it has less to do with demeaning people and it has nothing to do with saying that minorities aren't capable...its the opposite. It insures that people who are capable of competing are given a chance to compete...that's it. It strips away at racist institutions, systems, policies and people that would like to insure that certain segments of society are never given a chance to compete.

Say what you will about how the policy is implemented, but to claim moral superiority because you want to live with your head in the sand and deny centuries of systemic inequalites is as racist as it gets. That's great that you don't see race as a factor (Well, you think its great, I don't) but at least recognize that alot of people and places still discriminate by race, because if you don't do that...all your doing is enabling further racism.


So what? lot of people also discriminate on the basis of sex, age, religon etc. Know what they all have in common? Lack of competitive abillity. I dont care if you own a business in the heart of the deep south, if you restrict your hiring promoting options based on race, religon etc. you are reducing from the pool of talent you can draw from, you lose the abillity to compete with other businesses, and as a result hurt yourself.
AA is no longer necessary, this isn't 1968 anymore, the civil rights movement was successful, a larger percentage of whites live below the poverty line than the percentage of blacks who do.
AA is racistaginst the very minorities it is supposed to protect.
[edit on 2-3-2005 by robotbot]



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 07:19 PM
link   
Masterp, good point about the "European American" thing. I have thought about calling white people that a number of times.


I love how people pretend that racism is dead. You can tell that they have never experienced institutional racism. I have. From the po-po to jobs in this country, I know that racism is still alive and well. Deny it if you want, it's true.

How come some Jews got reparations for the Holocaust? How come some Japanese-Americans got reparations for being in US concentration camps? How come the 9/11 survivors/families of survivors got reparations? Because they went through some focked up stuff. But blacks should be ashamed of themselves for asking for reparations.


Yeah, I know that we can't give reparations to the descendants of those who were wronged, I know. Even though these descendants still go through some mad $hit, I know. Nice cop out.

Until you eradicate racism in this country, you can't get rid of AA. Why is this concept so hard to grasp? I see posts here saying that AA is outdated. Isn't racism WAY more outdated?
But of course, it's the members of the majority who don't like AA.

BTW, AA doesn't make minorities great. I bet AA bashers don't know the scope of black contributions to our society. Hell, black men can fight a war for a white country, but don't those black men ask for equal rights. I'm glad I wasn't a black vet who came home after the Civil War or WWII.

Yeah, I know, slavery is old and we should let it go. Why is the Holocaust so important, then? What about the American Revolution, who cares about that, it's old?

The sad thing is that our society shouldn't need AA. But guess what, it does. If you members of the majority hate it so much, why don't you convince everyone else in your group to stop being racist. Then, AA would truly die.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 04:31 AM
link   
After reading some of the replys...all i have to say is wow. I have a question; how many of you are acually a "minority"? I don't really agree with AA. I am infact not white, i am korean. I think AA makes people rely too much on others than themselves. Programs like AA makes a person more dependent than independent, moving not only themselves but society backwards instead of forward. I think that it is just sad to see people getting jobs or accepted into schools based upon their skin color. I would much rather go to school with a white person who has a cumulative gpa of 3.8 than an african american with a gpa of 2.8. Not to say that the african american that i am going to school with is dumb, but i would rather go to school with a person who have accually put the effort in getting their acceptance letter than someone who just depends on being a certain skin color to get in. I do however think that certain government programs are good, and benifit people who really need it. But in my opinion most people do not need it. I come from a family who does not have much money, but who are very proud people. As a child, I remember that they would always tell me to study so I could go to college because they couldnt. What my parents told me have paid off. For all the schools I applied for, I didnt even mark that I was "asian or pacific islander" I marked that I was white, because I wanted schools to look at my accomplishments and not my race. Needless to say, i do not have any minority scholorships, I have settled for some academic scholorships instead. I did however have to change my "ethnic status" prior to my registration because the school said i needed to. That is just what I think, some people really do need the government assistance. Nine times out of ten they do not.

I just got some stats on povery... 12.1 percent of people from all ages are considered in povery. These people are the ones who really need the assistance (though in my opinion, people who are in poverty choose to be), but how many others who are not considered to be in poverty benifit also? AA, to me is just another government handout that makes some people feel good about themselves because they think they are helping the "underpriviged."



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 05:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by fskebles
After reading some of the replys...all i have to say is wow. I have a question; how many of you are acually a "minority"? I don't really agree with AA. I am infact not white, i am korean. I think AA makes people rely too much on others than themselves. Programs like AA makes a person more dependent than independent, moving not only themselves but society backwards instead of forward. I think that it is just sad to see people getting jobs or accepted into schools based upon their skin color. I would much rather go to school with a white person who has a cumulative gpa of 3.8 than an african american with a gpa of 2.8. Not to say that the african american that i am going to school with is dumb, but i would rather go to school with a person who have accually put the effort in getting their acceptance letter than someone who just depends on being a certain skin color to get in. I do however think that certain government programs are good, and benifit people who really need it. But in my opinion most people do not need it. I come from a family who does not have much money, but who are very proud people. As a child, I remember that they would always tell me to study so I could go to college because they couldnt. What my parents told me have paid off. For all the schools I applied for, I didnt even mark that I was "asian or pacific islander" I marked that I was white, because I wanted schools to look at my accomplishments and not my race. Needless to say, i do not have any minority scholorships, I have settled for some academic scholorships instead. I did however have to change my "ethnic status" prior to my registration because the school said i needed to. That is just what I think, some people really do need the government assistance. Nine times out of ten they do not.

I just got some stats on povery... 12.1 percent of people from all ages are considered in povery. These people are the ones who really need the assistance (though in my opinion, people who are in poverty choose to be), but how many others who are not considered to be in poverty benifit also? AA, to me is just another government handout that makes some people feel good about themselves because they think they are helping the "underpriviged."


Wow,
Thank you for your time and honesty and good work ethic. America was once about personal achievement. Now its about "where's my share". There will always be ignorant predudice humans of all colors, sexes, and religions. It is about character and not skin color to paraphrase a great man.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 10:46 AM
link   
Has anyone here been a victim of the reverse racism known as AA in the past five years? Ten years? Twenty years? AA has been neutered thanks to EOE in my opinion.

So, you think poor people made the choice to be poor? That is perhaps the single most absurd thing I have heard in a week. Guess what, I have been poor all my life...is that a choice too? Granted, I may be young and still going to school, but me and my wife are poor. She is even a college graduate. Does that look like our choice to be poor? OR do we have no choice of being poor. Hell, my momma was poor. She still is. Do you think she liked crying at the end of the month because she cannot make all of the bills? Do you still think that is a choice? DO YOU THINK SO YOU LITTLE PIECE OF TRASH! Even when she was working full time and getting a little in child support, she could not cut it. No matter how hard she tried, she could not get ahead. But you know what, she always made sure there was food in our mouths, clothes on our back, and a roof over our heads. But she chose to live in poverty. Yeah it was all her fault. If she just pulled her head out of her ass, she would have looked for a better job. DO YOU THINK GOOD JOBS JUST THROW THEMSELVES AT YOU? Yeah, she chose to work a dead end job...obviously, SHE JUST WANTED TO BUILD CHARACTER! She just wanted to be poor. Now, I can finally sleep well at night, knowing that we just lived like poor people. That my mom could have pulled us out of that gutter whenever she willed it. Jerk...your opinion not only sucks, but is semi-inflamatory to anyone who has ever been poor.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 02:24 PM
link   
wow....again



Guess what, I have been poor all my life...is that a choice too? Granted, I may be young and still going to school, but me and my wife are poor. She is even a college graduate. Does that look like our choice to be poor?


you know what....i am broke too, i go to school, and my parents dont help me out....because they are "poor." My parents choose to be "poor", my dad didn't even think about getting his degree untill just a couple years ago. I'm "poor" too, but I don't have to worry about paying for any of my tuition because I worked hard while I was still in highschool and got that full ride. I work two jobs just so I can pay for my insurance, and that car. I aspire to get that job that my parents couldn't get.



She is even a college graduate. Does that look like our choice to be poor? OR do we have no choice of being poor.


People with degree dont mean anything, I would have to say you are the first that I know who has a degree, but obiviously are "poor." Choise has a lot to do with how people live.



Yeah, she chose to work a dead end job...obviously, SHE JUST WANTED TO BUILD CHARACTER!


wow...you even say she choose to work a dead end job, so it was her choice to be in that position. I have no pity for you or your family. I wonder who she was building character for...herself or you, because i am still debating whether or not you have any.



DO YOU THINK GOOD JOBS JUST THROW THEMSELVES AT YOU?


wow...and another. Of course good jobs dont throw themselves at you, what kind of a question is that. no qualifications = dead end job. Maybe your wife would need to tell you that since shes the one with the degree.

However, not to bash on people who do not have an undergrad, or grad, because I know many a person who is doing well for themselves with only a highschool degree.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 05:47 PM
link   
You are a schmuck. Yes, you are. Get a warning thrown at me or what not. I do not care at this point.

How much choice can a single mother with three kids possibly have, you sick sorry punk. Can she just go back to school. NO! Do you honestly believe it is her intention, her choice, to raise her kids below the poverty limit? DO YOU THINK SHE COULD DO ANYTHING AT THAT POINT OTHER THAN TRY TO FARKING FLOAT? WHAT THE FARK DO YOU SUGGEST SHE FARKING DO? WELL...WHAT? YOU HAVE NO FARKING CONCEPT OF THE WORLD OUTSIDE OF YOUR OWN. You arrogant sap.

AND # YOU FOR ATTACKING MY CHARACTER.

My mom worked the "dead end job" because she had to or lose the house, our food, our insurance, our FARKING etc...And besides, the statement was sarcasm you unwitty poster child for birth control.

And I couldn't give a sh*t about what has happened to you in your life. What I have seen, felt, and heard in my time tells me I am right.

And you know what else is worse...the fact that I am in the same boat as you. I busted my ass in high school for the scholarships I receive. I busted my ass at work so I can afford for myself. I am still doing both of those. But, luckily, I don't have much longer of it until I get to reap my rewards. And, unlike you, I will never thumb my "superior" nose at those folks who are honestly struggling.

PS: Your parents are schmucks too...they didn't raise their kid with enough common sense to not back handedly insult any honest, hard-working, poor person. Sadly, I would have agreed with you up until the point you decided to group all poor people in your venom spewing session. There are some who conciously choose to be poor. Drugheads, serious alcoholics, a nice portion of welfare recipients...there are some. But not everybody living below poverty are the LAZY PRICKS YOU MAKE THEM SOUND TO BE. Some of them just have to do what they have to do. (Working to support your single income VS. Going to school)



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 07:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by OXmanK
Guess what, I have been poor all my life...is that a choice too? Granted, I may be young and still going to school, but me and my wife are poor. She is even a college graduate. Does that look like our choice to be poor? OR do we have no choice of being poor.


It would occur to me that your persepctive on poor is a bit warped. You have access to a computer and are answering on a world web board.

POOR you say?
Perspective there OX................



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join