Pro migrant group forced to end work due to violence from migrants

a reply to: introvert

How is it logical to believe only the statistics that other people write, who might be bias to either way mind you, without personal experience?

a reply to: trollz

Are they pro-migrant or not?

Pro-migrant means taking your lumps. Its your DUTY to get beaten/knifed/killed while giving handouts to violent desperate foreigners.

Wimps. Cold-hearted wimps.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


I will take a stab at this (even though it is blatant trolling outside the mud pit)
Typically in my experience in Europe the cops keep their presence in doors. Them coming out was literally to give him time to grab his stuff and get inside. There were probably more police inside the station and there were probably maintained cameras inside the station.


Least that's what I have seen, your mileage may very by country.

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: introvert

How is it logical to believe only the statistics that other people write, who might be bias to either way mind you, without personal experience?

Statistics based on crime reporting, etc, is much more reliable than relying on personal experience, which is very focused, by definition, and could also be biased in nature. Not to mention that people can and do lie.

Therefore it is logical to look at statistics that can be backed by documentation.

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: trollz

Are they pro-migrant or not?

Pro-migrant means taking your lumps. Its your DUTY to get beaten/knifed/killed while giving handouts to violent desperate foreigners.

Wimps. Cold-hearted wimps.

They are pro-migrant unlike most it appears. Now let their government handle the situation, if they can.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: trollz

From your source:

Solidarité Migrants Wilson wrote a letter to the Paris administration, explaining that their volunteers won’t be able to work in the area due to tension between police and migrants, as well as the massive presence of drug addicts.

That paints a somewhat different picture to me. The source mentioned the claim by Wilson that the authorities are restricting access to water taps. It sounds like, yes, there is violence and danger, but primarily caused by the conflicts between refugees and locals.

Not a good situation for anyone.

Europe is ruined. Last time I was in Italy (2000), I arrived to Milan train station and went out looking for a taxi. A group of men forming a wall came towards me and 2 policemen showed up just when they were about to beat me and steal my stuff, those guys retreated but kept an eye from the distance.

The policemen told me I had 2 minutes to grab my stuff and go back inside the train station because they won't be able to protect me. They told me those guys were from other country. I spent the rest of the night inside the station.

Excellent example of context. Your story shows that there can be more than one side to a problem. Not only were the men wanting to beat you, but the cops were not willing or able to do their jobs.

Exactly. I felt their frustration. Very sad.

But you admit the problem lies with others as well, not just the migrants.

That's important if we want to find or discuss solutions.

Yes, of course. It's all about 2 bad governments. The migrant's government, and the one of the country receiving them.

And drug addicts, and police, etc.

Your focus seems to be very myopic and does not look at the situation as a whole.

No man, drug dealers are criminals and authorities/government should take care of that too.

a reply to: introvert

There were statistics about the level of crime, increasing due to African migrants three years ago in Sweden, that created no go zones. The left's reaction? Denial... So much for statistics.

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: introvert

There were statistics about the level of crime, increasing due to African migrants three years ago in Sweden, that created no go zones. The left's reaction? Denial... So much for statistics.

And thank you for proving introvert right.

Are they no-go zones? Well, not really. This term caught on in international media after it was used by a columnist to label these areas, but police and emergency services have themselves repeatedly rejected it, arguing that these are areas with a higher police presence, if anything. That said, emergency services do often adapt their behaviour, for example by making sure that there is proper back-up, by entering the areas via alternative routes, or by reversing their vehicles into the areas in order to make sure they are able to leave quickly if needed. Emergency services have, for example, been exposed to threats, stone-throwing, or vandalism of their vehicles. But it's not black and white: often, nothing of note happens. A fire chief in an area which covers some of northern Stockholm's most vulnerable suburbs, including Rinkeby and Tensta, told The Local earlier this year: “We don't have any no-go zones, absolutely not, the opposite in fact. We move around in all areas, with the same force, at the same speed. But sometimes we get indications, or see, that something is not right and then we take precautions.”

www.thelocal.se...

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


I will take a stab at this (even though it is blatant trolling outside the mud pit)
Typically in my experience in Europe the cops keep their presence in doors. Them coming out was literally to give him time to grab his stuff and get inside. There were probably more police inside the station and there were probably maintained cameras inside the station.


Least that's what I have seen, your mileage may very by country.

You got that right. Inside there is a cafeteria (took a few espressos to stay awake) and also more law enforcement units.

a reply to: InTheLight

again, something came from someone's pen. I saw a video about two years ago on YT (cant link it sorry) where two guys tried to prove there are no no-go zones by going into an alleged one at 3am on a weekday. Surprisingly nothing happened to them as the streets were abandoned. Its 3 am... I would walk into East New York at 3am on a weekday and nothing would happen, doesn't mean East New York is a safe place does it?

I assume a lot of people commenting haven't been to France. First off its not what the media leads people to believe. France has a population not very different than the US. The concept of capitalism was born here. They have migrants that can illegally enter their coast and land, and they have a lot of rural people who are conservative.

There are very bad situations of failed states in North Africa like Somalia and Lbya. Not unlike central America (just far larger problem in terms of populations in N. Africa)

France takes a lot of crap but they aren't the liberal softies they are presented as. They know they have migrant issues and do as best they can. Like the US they also have labor voids that require migrants. Unlike the US they usually bag and tag the migrants and process them for legal work. They do still have under the table work but not 10 million...

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: trollz

From your source:

Solidarité Migrants Wilson wrote a letter to the Paris administration, explaining that their volunteers won’t be able to work in the area due to tension between police and migrants, as well as the massive presence of drug addicts.

That paints a somewhat different picture to me. The source mentioned the claim by Wilson that the authorities are restricting access to water taps. It sounds like, yes, there is violence and danger, but primarily caused by the conflicts between refugees and locals.

Not a good situation for anyone.

Europe is ruined. Last time I was in Italy (2000), I arrived to Milan train station and went out looking for a taxi. A group of men forming a wall came towards me and 2 policemen showed up just when they were about to beat me and steal my stuff, those guys retreated but kept an eye from the distance.

The policemen told me I had 2 minutes to grab my stuff and go back inside the train station because they won't be able to protect me. They told me those guys were from other country. I spent the rest of the night inside the station.

Excellent example of context. Your story shows that there can be more than one side to a problem. Not only were the men wanting to beat you, but the cops were not willing or able to do their jobs.

Exactly. I felt their frustration. Very sad.

But you admit the problem lies with others as well, not just the migrants.

That's important if we want to find or discuss solutions.

Yes, of course. It's all about 2 bad governments. The migrant's government, and the one of the country receiving them.

And drug addicts, and police, etc.

Your focus seems to be very myopic and does not look at the situation as a whole.

No man, drug dealers are criminals and authorities/government should take care of that too.

I agree, but it adds more elements to the issue than simply bad government and bad migrants.

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: introvert

There were statistics about the level of crime, increasing due to African migrants three years ago in Sweden, that created no go zones. The left's reaction? Denial... So much for statistics.

I believe the no-go zone issue was a bit of BS.

Otherwise, it appears you may be contradicting yourself.

Are you for statistics or not?

originally posted by: luthier
I assume a lot of people commenting haven't been to France. First off its not what the media leads people to believe. France has a population not very different than the US. The concept of capitalism was born here. They have migrants that can illegally enter their coast and land, and they have a lot of rural people who are conservative.

There are very bad situations of failed states in North Africa like Somalia and Lbya. Not unlike central America (just far larger problem in terms of populations in N. Africa)

France takes a lot of crap but they aren't the liberal softies they are presented as. They know they have migrant issues and do as best they can. Like the US they also have labor voids that require migrants. Unlike the US they usually bag and tag the migrants and process them for legal work. They do still have under the table work but not 10 million...

It's a crisis and France and other countries seem quite ill-equipped to handle it, but they are trying.

www.newindianexpress.com...

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: InTheLight

again, something came from someone's pen. I saw a video about two years ago on YT (cant link it sorry) where two guys tried to prove there are no no-go zones by going into an alleged one at 3am on a weekday. Surprisingly nothing happened to them as the streets were abandoned. Its 3 am... I would walk into East New York at 3am on a weekday and nothing would happen, doesn't mean East New York is a safe place does it?

If you really wanted to find out the occurrences of when something bad happened at 3 am in a zone with dubious safety then that is when you would look at statistics.

a reply to: trollz

Oh, the ignorance!
Oh, the outrage!
Oh, the immigrants!

Total War has nothing to do with this and it's Europes fault for sticking to a minimum of human rights? Right.

Not a single word on the escalating austerity bollocks with drained public budgets though, that's a pity. The neolibs made it all about the migrants and you are so eager to fall for this crisis, that you even forgot to cite the full context of that article.



Well. Try this one?

While exact deportations data is hard to track down — only Belgium comprehensively records and makes public its deportations costs — the Migrants' Files team did find that the 28 member states plus Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland have together spent at least 11.3 billion euros ($12.8b) on deportations since 2000. A careful sift through the available data puts the cost of deportations in Europe at close to a billion euros per year.

news.vice.com...

You want more of our tax-monies for your business model of fear or something? Who knew!

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?

Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?

Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags

I'll pitch in for that one. Its easy to sit behind a computer and tell the people living it they are wrong.

Remember the story about the German women who organized a welcoming party for migrants only to get sexually assaulted by the migrants at their own party? Who will they blame for that one?

If you are in the wild, you cant blame an animal for attacking you. Its what they do. But you aren't going to change the behavior by blaming it on other factors or saying the victim shouldn't have been there. Animals do what animals do because they are animals. These people are animals. They way they treat each other should be lesson enough but the way they treat westerners is over the top proof. If you are still trying to ignore and deny that, well, like the man said, If you have to talk about it at least do it from a place of personal experience. Go there. Live it first hand. Then talk.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: luthier
I assume a lot of people commenting haven't been to France. First off its not what the media leads people to believe. France has a population not very different than the US. The concept of capitalism was born here. They have migrants that can illegally enter their coast and land, and they have a lot of rural people who are conservative.

There are very bad situations of failed states in North Africa like Somalia and Lbya. Not unlike central America (just far larger problem in terms of populations in N. Africa)

France takes a lot of crap but they aren't the liberal softies they are presented as. They know they have migrant issues and do as best they can. Like the US they also have labor voids that require migrants. Unlike the US they usually bag and tag the migrants and process them for legal work. They do still have under the table work but not 10 million...

It's a crisis and France and other countries seem quite ill-equipped to handle it, but they are trying.

www.newindianexpress.com...

It's not really something with a clear plan unless you just mow people down at the gates or on rafts and start executing migrants. Nobody wants to live like that thankfully, so it's a complex problem. When entire countries of millions have no real government the only thing to do is invest in stability of the countries. It sucks and it's nation building but ultimately if they became a trading partner and stable without lawlessness and major black markets providing gdp the people themselves will be more likely to follow a social contract than be in a state of nature and every man and woman for themselves.

a reply to: introvert


I do read statistics but I don't base my debate purely on them to an extent where I straight refuse an eye witness's opinion...

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: trollz

From your source:

Solidarité Migrants Wilson wrote a letter to the Paris administration, explaining that their volunteers won’t be able to work in the area due to tension between police and migrants, as well as the massive presence of drug addicts.

That paints a somewhat different picture to me. The source mentioned the claim by Wilson that the authorities are restricting access to water taps. It sounds like, yes, there is violence and danger, but primarily caused by the conflicts between refugees and locals.

Not a good situation for anyone.

Europe is ruined. Last time I was in Italy (2000), I arrived to Milan train station and went out looking for a taxi. A group of men forming a wall came towards me and 2 policemen showed up just when they were about to beat me and steal my stuff, those guys retreated but kept an eye from the distance.

The policemen told me I had 2 minutes to grab my stuff and go back inside the train station because they won't be able to protect me. They told me those guys were from other country. I spent the rest of the night inside the station.

Excellent example of context. Your story shows that there can be more than one side to a problem. Not only were the men wanting to beat you, but the cops were not willing or able to do their jobs.

Exactly. I felt their frustration. Very sad.

But you admit the problem lies with others as well, not just the migrants.

That's important if we want to find or discuss solutions.

Yes, of course. It's all about 2 bad governments. The migrant's government, and the one of the country receiving them.

And drug addicts, and police, etc.

Your focus seems to be very myopic and does not look at the situation as a whole.

No man, drug dealers are criminals and authorities/government should take care of that too.

I agree, but it adds more elements to the issue than simply bad government and bad migrants.

Certainly many more elements. But nothing is going to change if authorities are not doing their part.