Pro migrant group forced to end work due to violence from migrants

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?

Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?

Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags

I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: notsure1
Wow Ill say it since no one else wants too. ITS THE IMMIGRANTS....

The French government allowed them into the country, so who's responsibility is it now?

Still has to be the immigrant responsible for their own actions..

To violent for volunteers who are always in poor "bad" neighborhoods?

I wonder how you or I would act without water and food and tents, as some people are sleeping on the ground out in the elements, not to mention drug addicts in our midst.

I sure as hell would not be violent to the only people giving me food and water...

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?

Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?

Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags

I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.

A book by its cover...

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: notsure1
Wow Ill say it since no one else wants too. ITS THE IMMIGRANTS....

The French government allowed them into the country, so who's responsibility is it now?

Still has to be the immigrant responsible for their own actions..

To violent for volunteers who are always in poor "bad" neighborhoods?

I wonder how you or I would act without water and food and tents, as some people are sleeping on the ground out in the elements, not to mention drug addicts in our midst.

I sure as hell would not be violent to the only people giving me food and water...

You might if you were strung out on drugs.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: trollz

From your source:

Solidarité Migrants Wilson wrote a letter to the Paris administration, explaining that their volunteers won’t be able to work in the area due to tension between police and migrants, as well as the massive presence of drug addicts.

That paints a somewhat different picture to me. The source mentioned the claim by Wilson that the authorities are restricting access to water taps. It sounds like, yes, there is violence and danger, but primarily caused by the conflicts between refugees and locals.

Not a good situation for anyone.

Europe is ruined. Last time I was in Italy (2000), I arrived to Milan train station and went out looking for a taxi. A group of men forming a wall came towards me and 2 policemen showed up just when they were about to beat me and steal my stuff, those guys retreated but kept an eye from the distance.

The policemen told me I had 2 minutes to grab my stuff and go back inside the train station because they won't be able to protect me. They told me those guys were from other country. I spent the rest of the night inside the station.

The problem with this context is the side of the migrants is missing.

Excellent example of context. Your story shows that there can be more than one side to a problem. Not only were the men wanting to beat you, but the cops were not willing or able to do their jobs.

The problem with this context is the sides of the migrants and government are missing.

Correct. That is why we need to frame this in int's entirety before we make ignorant assumptions or accusations.

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?

Back in the 80's I could walk in Italy anytime and never saw that kind of situation. All the migrants I met were hard workers. Not anymore.

Cool story, bro.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

They were scared, they made me feel like I was the problem because I made them came risking their life. Before they left, they said if I decide to stay outside they won't come back to help me.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?

Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?

Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags

I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.

Well in that case I invite you to Google for unbiased statistics and not let others do the work that you can so easily find yourself.

I have been here in France for nigh on 30 years now and it is a total mess now in the larger (and smaller towns) because of the way the migrant policies have been handled...

Kindest respects

Lags

originally posted by: Trueman
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

They were scared, they made me feel like I was the problem because I made them came risking their life. Before they left, they said if I decide to stay outside they won't come back to help me.

Cool story bro.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: trollz

From your source:

Solidarité Migrants Wilson wrote a letter to the Paris administration, explaining that their volunteers won’t be able to work in the area due to tension between police and migrants, as well as the massive presence of drug addicts.

That paints a somewhat different picture to me. The source mentioned the claim by Wilson that the authorities are restricting access to water taps. It sounds like, yes, there is violence and danger, but primarily caused by the conflicts between refugees and locals.

Not a good situation for anyone.

Europe is ruined. Last time I was in Italy (2000), I arrived to Milan train station and went out looking for a taxi. A group of men forming a wall came towards me and 2 policemen showed up just when they were about to beat me and steal my stuff, those guys retreated but kept an eye from the distance.

The policemen told me I had 2 minutes to grab my stuff and go back inside the train station because they won't be able to protect me. They told me those guys were from other country. I spent the rest of the night inside the station.

Excellent example of context. Your story shows that there can be more than one side to a problem. Not only were the men wanting to beat you, but the cops were not willing or able to do their jobs.

Exactly. I felt their frustration. Very sad.

a reply to: Lagomorphe

Well in that case I invite you to Google for unbiased statistics and not let others do the work that you can so easily find yourself.

Thanks for the invitation. I would invite others to do the same. Specifically those that have made certain claims.

It appears those claims were made out of ignorance.

I have been here in France for nigh on 30 years now and it is a total mess now in the larger (and smaller towns) because of the way the migrant policies have been handled...

The article in the OP mentioned something similar to that, discussing that the issue lies with the government and police as well.

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: trollz

From your source:

Solidarité Migrants Wilson wrote a letter to the Paris administration, explaining that their volunteers won’t be able to work in the area due to tension between police and migrants, as well as the massive presence of drug addicts.

That paints a somewhat different picture to me. The source mentioned the claim by Wilson that the authorities are restricting access to water taps. It sounds like, yes, there is violence and danger, but primarily caused by the conflicts between refugees and locals.

Not a good situation for anyone.

Europe is ruined. Last time I was in Italy (2000), I arrived to Milan train station and went out looking for a taxi. A group of men forming a wall came towards me and 2 policemen showed up just when they were about to beat me and steal my stuff, those guys retreated but kept an eye from the distance.

The policemen told me I had 2 minutes to grab my stuff and go back inside the train station because they won't be able to protect me. They told me those guys were from other country. I spent the rest of the night inside the station.

Excellent example of context. Your story shows that there can be more than one side to a problem. Not only were the men wanting to beat you, but the cops were not willing or able to do their jobs.

Exactly. I felt their frustration. Very sad.

But you admit the problem lies with others as well, not just the migrants.

That's important if we want to find or discuss solutions.

How about the EU trade 1 African our middle eastern migrant for 100 mexican migrants?

Deal America?

Of even 1 for 1000?

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?

Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?

Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags

I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.

If you and your pals are really interested in what is going on with the migrants, you could travel to these places on your own, no need for Lags invitation, or as you call it 'anecdotal fallacies'. But I guess life is easier in a bubble...

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: trollz

From your source:

Solidarité Migrants Wilson wrote a letter to the Paris administration, explaining that their volunteers won’t be able to work in the area due to tension between police and migrants, as well as the massive presence of drug addicts.

That paints a somewhat different picture to me. The source mentioned the claim by Wilson that the authorities are restricting access to water taps. It sounds like, yes, there is violence and danger, but primarily caused by the conflicts between refugees and locals.

Not a good situation for anyone.

Europe is ruined. Last time I was in Italy (2000), I arrived to Milan train station and went out looking for a taxi. A group of men forming a wall came towards me and 2 policemen showed up just when they were about to beat me and steal my stuff, those guys retreated but kept an eye from the distance.

The policemen told me I had 2 minutes to grab my stuff and go back inside the train station because they won't be able to protect me. They told me those guys were from other country. I spent the rest of the night inside the station.

Excellent example of context. Your story shows that there can be more than one side to a problem. Not only were the men wanting to beat you, but the cops were not willing or able to do their jobs.

Exactly. I felt their frustration. Very sad.

But you admit the problem lies with others as well, not just the migrants.

That's important if we want to find or discuss solutions.

Yes, of course. It's all about 2 bad governments. The migrant's government, and the one of the country receiving them.

originally posted by: szino9

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?

Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?

Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags

I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.

If you and your pals are really interested in what is going on with the migrants, you could travel to these places on your own, no need for Lags invitation, or as you call it 'anecdotal fallacies'. But I guess life is easier in a bubble...

We're all in a bubble without knowing the migrants' and French governments' side or issues facing both sides.

a reply to: InTheLight

and I am not arguing about that. I am arguing about ones ignorance and lack of open mind to even consider someone's opinion who actually see these things first hand...

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: InTheLight

and I am not arguing about that. I am arguing about ones ignorance and lack of open mind to even consider someone's opinion who actually see these things first hand...

But seeing is not investigating all the underlying issues.

originally posted by: szino9

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?

Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?

Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags

I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.

If you and your pals are really interested in what is going on with the migrants, you could travel to these places on your own, no need for Lags invitation, or as you call it 'anecdotal fallacies'. But I guess life is easier in a bubble...

I could go to those places, but a personal experience of my own is not representative of the situation as a whole.

If I go there and do not see anything wrong, does that mean the problem does not exist? Of course not.

You're not being logical whatsoever.

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: argentus
a reply to: trollz

From your source:

Solidarité Migrants Wilson wrote a letter to the Paris administration, explaining that their volunteers won’t be able to work in the area due to tension between police and migrants, as well as the massive presence of drug addicts.

That paints a somewhat different picture to me. The source mentioned the claim by Wilson that the authorities are restricting access to water taps. It sounds like, yes, there is violence and danger, but primarily caused by the conflicts between refugees and locals.

Not a good situation for anyone.

Europe is ruined. Last time I was in Italy (2000), I arrived to Milan train station and went out looking for a taxi. A group of men forming a wall came towards me and 2 policemen showed up just when they were about to beat me and steal my stuff, those guys retreated but kept an eye from the distance.

The policemen told me I had 2 minutes to grab my stuff and go back inside the train station because they won't be able to protect me. They told me those guys were from other country. I spent the rest of the night inside the station.

Excellent example of context. Your story shows that there can be more than one side to a problem. Not only were the men wanting to beat you, but the cops were not willing or able to do their jobs.

Exactly. I felt their frustration. Very sad.

But you admit the problem lies with others as well, not just the migrants.

That's important if we want to find or discuss solutions.

Yes, of course. It's all about 2 bad governments. The migrant's government, and the one of the country receiving them.

And drug addicts, and police, etc.

Your focus seems to be very myopic and does not look at the situation as a whole.