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Pro migrant group forced to end work due to violence from migrants

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posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: introvert


I do read statistics but I don't base my debate purely on them to an extent where I straight refuse an eye witness's opinion...



I don't think anyone has refused an eye witness opinion.

All I have said is that it is illogical to base an opinion on anecdotal fallacies.




posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: luthier
I assume a lot of people commenting haven't been to France. First off its not what the media leads people to believe. France has a population not very different than the US. The concept of capitalism was born here. They have migrants that can illegally enter their coast and land, and they have a lot of rural people who are conservative.

There are very bad situations of failed states in North Africa like Somalia and Lbya. Not unlike central America (just far larger problem in terms of populations in N. Africa)

France takes a lot of crap but they aren't the liberal softies they are presented as. They know they have migrant issues and do as best they can. Like the US they also have labor voids that require migrants. Unlike the US they usually bag and tag the migrants and process them for legal work. They do still have under the table work but not 10 million...


It's a crisis and France and other countries seem quite ill-equipped to handle it, but they are trying.

www.newindianexpress.com...


It's not really something with a clear plan unless you just mow people down at the gates or on rafts and start executing migrants. Nobody wants to live like that thankfully, so it's a complex problem. When entire countries of millions have no real government the only thing to do is invest in stability of the countries. It sucks and it's nation building but ultimately if they became a trading partner and stable without lawlessness and major black markets providing gdp the people themselves will be more likely to follow a social contract than be in a state of nature and every man and woman for themselves.



It appears most migrants are from Syria and Afghanistan, so nation building seems definitely out.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: InTheLight

Most migrants are from Algeria and by far north Africa.

Also most illegals are coming from north Africa.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: InTheLight

Most migrants are from Algeria and by far north Africa.


Also most illegals are coming from north Africa.



Again, nation building seems definitely out.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: InTheLight

Depends what they have to trade and who is in power to trade it. The market is far better at fixing problems than the military. Sure it takes some very creative risk takers.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

It is the migrants. Since they are always at the heart of the problems.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:34 AM
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damn illegals get free food over in france too?
i saw a sign in HOBOKEN NJ, saying, 'do you need food for free, health insurance, etc? call this number'
and it was written in spanish as well.

the companies WANT the g0v to pay for food for illegals, because the companies get the cash.
the companies are happy, they get money from the deficit.
the illegals are happy, cause they get to live off freebies from the deficit.

actual american citizens get screwed, paying for this all, and our wages are decimated to low low levels.
i walked past a store construction site, all immigrants working construction.
they are even taking union gigs now.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:38 AM
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originally posted by: dantanna
damn illegals get free food over in france too?
i saw a sign in HOBOKEN NJ, saying, 'do you need food for free, health insurance, etc? call this number'
and it was written in spanish as well.

the companies WANT the g0v to pay for food for illegals, because the companies get the cash.
the companies are happy, they get money from the deficit.
the illegals are happy, cause they get to live off freebies from the deficit.

actual american citizens get screwed, paying for this all, and our wages are decimated to low low levels.
i walked past a store construction site, all immigrants working construction.
they are even taking union gigs now.


They aren't taking what isn't there..Just a fact people aren't going into the trades. As a tradesman who has worked for a decade in Texas where everyone was siked to get lower prices (except the American workers)

Lot of carpenter wanted ads all over the country. Lots of welder needed, or truck driver wanted etc...I know a guy who can't find people to fill 80k a year driving jobs.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:52 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?


Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?


Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags


I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.


Just to put a different perspective on this, and coming from a research background, I will say that 'hard statistics', also known as quantitative data, is nigh on useless for understanding the problem in Europe. Actual experience, or qualitative data (not 'anecdotal fallacies') is vastly more important.

Hard statistics might tell you there's a million refugees in France, or in a particular suburb, but it won't tell you that they're all on one street corner, or validate the change an area has experienced. Statistics won't tell you the lack of integration or rising tensions between locals and migrants.

Your statement is the opposite of how you interpret what is going on.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 10:57 AM
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Let the government deal with migrants that live in those areas. People trying to help with that kind of stuff put themselves into risky conditions in those kind of areas. It is the same way in some bad areas here in the USA and this is not only an immigrant problem.

People think they are doing good for people but it often backfires and causes a decline in aid to these people. If the government is leaving this happen in excessive numbers, it is their responsibility to care for these people. They should be using their time to address the government's negligence because of their desire to bring in too many people at a time, these people must be immigrated at a moderate rate so they can properly social condition them to society. Other wise, Chaos is all you get. I cannot understand why the governments even considered the big influx of people into their society.

Just because the people at the top are prestigious does not mean they are smart. They want people to believe they are caring but they do not allow these disruptive people into their own neighborhoods.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: Rewey

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?


Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?


Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags


I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.


Just to put a different perspective on this, and coming from a research background, I will say that 'hard statistics', also known as quantitative data, is nigh on useless for understanding the problem in Europe. Actual experience, or qualitative data (not 'anecdotal fallacies') is vastly more important.

Hard statistics might tell you there's a million refugees in France, or in a particular suburb, but it won't tell you that they're all on one street corner, or validate the change an area has experienced. Statistics won't tell you the lack of integration or rising tensions between locals and migrants.

Your statement is the opposite of how you interpret what is going on.


Yet eye witness statements can vary vastly at least quantitative data may be less biased.
edit on 18CDT11America/Chicago017111131 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: notsure1
Wow Ill say it since no one else wants too. ITS THE IMMIGRANTS....





Surely then you have statistics to back up your bold claim... I won't hold my breath waiting however.


I dont need statistics i have the volunteers that live there and work there for their whole lives saying its the immigrants being violent to them..

You choose not to believe them?



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: Rewey

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Lagomorphe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: introvert

How violent was it before the migration?


Good question.

We should also ask how bad the drug issue was beforehand and how pro-active/interactive the authorities were beforehand.

Considering that you were willing to automatically blame the migrants, perhaps you have the statistics for those things.

Could you post them for us to see?


Dear Introvert.

I live not far from Paris and regularly visit the main largest cities of France (North and South) on business trips.

I will gladly put you up for free and drop you off at the nearest large Parisian railway station and let you see for yourself how the migrant situation has just totally gotten out of control over here if you like?

Kindest respects

Lags


I appreciate the offer, but I am more interested in hard statistics, not an offer to formulate anecdotal fallacies.


Just to put a different perspective on this, and coming from a research background, I will say that 'hard statistics', also known as quantitative data, is nigh on useless for understanding the problem in Europe. Actual experience, or qualitative data (not 'anecdotal fallacies') is vastly more important.

Hard statistics might tell you there's a million refugees in France, or in a particular suburb, but it won't tell you that they're all on one street corner, or validate the change an area has experienced. Statistics won't tell you the lack of integration or rising tensions between locals and migrants.

Your statement is the opposite of how you interpret what is going on.


Incorrect. Statistics can contain both quantitative and qualitative data, which gives one a better grasp of certain issues or situations. Even you recognize the difference between qualitative data and anecdotal fallacies, and that is what I find acceptable.

You have to have all of that information order to make any interpretation and to dismiss the quantitative for only the qualitative is illogical in and of itself.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: trollz

The cultural values are too different.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 02:41 PM
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Why doesnt the French police or military do the food deliveries?



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight



The activist blames both the French government and the Paris administration for their inaction which lead to the growing level of violence in the district. “The state is responsible for people on the streets, for taking in migrants. Meanwhile, the authorities in Paris are restricting access to water taps in the summer. It’s irresponsible,” he laments.


The violence seems to be coming mostly from the drug addicts living in those horrible conditions. However, I don't blame the volunteers for ending their aid and keeping themselves safe. Now without bread and water from the volunteers, we may actually see an increase in violence.



How did you come to the stunning conclusion that the violence is coming mostly from the drug addicts in the area? It stated that drug addicts were present in the area, show where it says that most of the violence comes from the drug addicts...too painful for you to admit the immigrants may be causing the problems? How about staying with the facts. Not surprising though, you believe that there is a correlation between being mentally ill and racist so I guess this huge jumping to conclusions shouldn't be unexpected.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

I'm not trolling I'm calling out the absurdity of blaming migrants for all the problems, sure they are adding to the problem, more so in certain areas than others. Reality is cities harbor all sorts of criminal elements and violent thugs. OPs like this one are clickbait for ignorant people, don't be one them.



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: notsure1

I have no doubt your volunteer friends are very scared..



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: introvert

How is it logical to believe only the statistics that other people write, who might be bias to either way mind you, without personal experience?


Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?



posted on Aug, 2 2018 @ 06:04 PM
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The same as feeding wildlife; you think you're doing something good but end up making the problem worse by encouraging them until one day the dynamics change. I can recall seeing videos of food delivery vans 2 years ago and the migrants would throw away anything with a past due date.They also didn't like certain food items and others were worth stealing from the truck. Last shot in the video the van is speeding away with migrants chasing them down the road.

The EU has tried hard to pretend this isn't a big problem but for those living near them it has become intolerable for some. Truckers crossing the channel have some especially bad videos.




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