Spatial dimensions vs non-spatial dimensions.

The subject of spatial dimension has been on my mind lately. Its a big part of classical physics, quantum mechanics, and even number theory; three subjects which absolutely fascinate me. One version of String Theory insists that there must exist at least 11 dimensions for our universe to exist. A new theory called Emergence Theory says there can only be 8 dimensions, and that our physical 3 dimensions + time are like the shadow of an 8 dimensional crystal. How do you even wrap your head around that?

Intuition demands that there must exist x, y, & z axes. Its hard to imagine a 4th axis, but after all, we are all moving forward in time. However, if you really sit there an think about it, you could also imagine moving backward in time, or even sideways in time, where Neo decides to take the blue pill instead. In fact, if we consider the possibilities of other worlds...or other versions of our world, time itself would have x, y, & z axes of its own. The possibilities would be endless.

Then, you could say that our reality is but a wave propagating through a medium. A wave with a wave function of probable realities...An x,y,z vertex oscillating in a sea of x, y, z vertices. Does the wave function collapse frame by frame, and raise reality from the sea of potentials? Or are all possibilities simultaneously real?

So, what if there are really two different types of dimensions? Spatial and metaphysical (in the philosophical sense). Three dimensions for space, and possibly infinitly more dimensions for, knowledge, data...consciousness.

In number theory, you have real numbers, and imaginary numbers. Not much of a difference between them, other than the use of 'i' as the imaginary unit. In physics, both real and imaginary numbers are used as complex numbers to represent the two components of electromagnetic waves.

Then you have at least 6 (possibly 7) layers/dimensions of numbers that can exist in both categories.

1) Integers

2) Terminating Fractions
2b) Non-Terminating Fractions

3) Irrationals

(The rest of the layers/dimensions are non-algebraic)

4) Transcendentals: Definable and Computable

5) Transcendentals: Definable, but Non-Computable

6) Transcendentals: Non-Definable and Non-Computable

So the three algebraic categories of numbers can definitely be used geometrically, and at the very least, computable transcendentals, like π, can be approximated and used in our algebraic equations for geometric purposes as well, but aside from that, non-algebraic numbers (transcendentals) really seem to be enigmas. And the bizarre part is, there are more non-definable/non-computable transcendentals than there are of any other number.

Perhaps then, the algebraic numbers represent our 3 spatial dimensions, along with the computable transcendentals to give time depth to the algebraic spatial dimensions...

...but what of the rest of the non-algebraic/transcendental numbers? Do they represent dimensions of consciousness?

Questions, questions, questions...

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Sounds like mental masturbation to me.

What actual problem do those additional dimensions solve?

What testable predictions do they make?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Where did you see this?

a reply to: Woodcarver

I just made it up. Brainstorming infinities.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I believe that the 'directional observability' of the dimensions is a clue to their mathematical structures.

Consider the first three dimensions are 'observable' both forward and back, the fourth dimension (temporal) is only observable backwards. Higher order dimensions are not observable in either direction.

The usual description that the higher dimensions are 'rolled-up' at a radius smaller than the Planck distance seems a trifle 'forced' to me.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Wow. Thank you for sending my brain to the torture chamber.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

after last night i am convinced that most people have no idea what is really possible or what is really out there.
interesting that this thread pops up now.

a couple days ago i would have given a different answer.

if you want to know specifics i will try to explain but in a private message.

what i can say for sure is there is way, way, way more going on than we know.
i feel like people are going through life with about 5% of their brain working. when you feel 90% of your brain firing off even for a short time it is unreal. cant be explained really.
i cant use my 5% brain to explain how it is when 90% of firing.

these are very interesting questions and i am positive you can answer them.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest


Intuition demands that there must exist x, y, & z axes. Its hard to imagine a 4th axis, but after all, we are all moving forward in time. However, if you really sit there an think about it, you could also imagine moving backward in time, or even sideways in time,
try to imagine the possibility of moving forward in time and backward in time all at the same time while having no concept of time[/] where Neo decides to take the blue pill instead. In fact, if we consider the possibilities of other worlds...or other versions of our world, time itself would have x, y, & z axes of its own. The possibilities would be endless.these possibilities exist. just complete breaks from what we know or what we think we know

Then, you could say that our reality is but a wave propagating through a medium. A wave with a wave function of probable realities...An x,y,z vertex oscillating in a sea of x, y, z vertices. Does the wave function collapse frame by frame, and raise reality from the sea of potentials? Or are all possibilities simultaneously real?i say all things going on at the same time but with our 5% brain firing off we can not see them, feel them or process them[b/]

So, what if there are really two different types of dimensions? Spatial and metaphysical (in the philosophical sense). Three dimensions for space, and possibly infinitly more dimensions for, knowledge, data...consciousness.


Do they represent dimensions of consciousness?

Questions, questions, questions...

the reason we question all these things is because they exist. some people glimpse them from time to time.

how do you think you would feel if you could operate in multiple streams of consciousness at once?

I think a definition of what is meant by 'dimension' is in order here.

Consider 3D space. A point in 3D space has an x, y, and z coordinate. For the sake of argument, let us place our point in space at coordinates 2, 2, 2. We can move this point in the x dimension without changing its y and z coordinates, to say, 1, 2, 2 or 3, 2, 2. The same thing can happen in the y and z axes. Because of this, we call the x, y, and z axes 'orthogonal.'

A dimension is a separate dimension if and only if it is orthogonal to all other dimensions.

Some people tend to define orthogonal as simply 90 degrees apart. This works for spatial dimensions, but only for spatial dimensions. For instance, time is orthogonal to the x, y, and z axes, because it is possible to move through time without changing the x, y, and z coordinates. Time is therefore a dimension. But it is silly to talk about time being 90 degrees from the x axis. That statement makes no sense.

Following that train of thought, the concepts of color or temperature could be seen as orthogonal and therefore another dimension. Neither has an inherent dependency on the coordinates in any other dimension.

The dimensions mentioned in theory, like the 11 dimensions in string theory, are based on the actual definition of orthogonality. They are not (necessarily) 90 degrees apart; they simply exist independent of all other dimensions.

TheRedneck

im definitely feeling there are other dimensions(closest word possible) that we dont yet know how to perceive but sometimes we can catch glimpses.
and when you do....damn

a reply to: TinySickTears

Please do message me. I would love to hear about your thoughts/experiences. Thanks.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Very important point. I do believe that the x, y, z axes of time do exist orthogonally to our 3 common spatial dimensions. Beyond that, I can't really explain it.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: TinySickTears

Please do message me. I would love to hear about your thoughts/experiences. Thanks.

i sent you a message.
if you want to know anything else i will try the best i can.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Sorry, it seems that the message never came through.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: TinySickTears

Sorry, it seems that the message never came through.

i sent it again.
i am taking my daughter to ride bikes so if it does not come through i can email you later but check you inbox

a reply to: TinySickTears

Still didn't come through. Do you have a twitter account?

I think the biggest issue we face in these endeavors is that, since relativity, we have been rubbing up against the limits of our biology.

That certainly doesn't mean I think there is nothing left we can discover, but it does mean that making accurate leaps from this point requires us to consider more human factors in the process.

Its like each stepping stone, up to this point, got a bit further and further apart until we needed to start jumping. Relativity was the one where we jumped as far as we could, and barely made it. The next will require approaches and considerations that have simply not been needed up to this point.

I think the pattern recognition machine that is the human brain may be at the limit of what it can parse. The software (Cultural Story) has never been intentionally upgraded though, so I think there is still a helluva long way to go before we reach the true limits of our hardware.

Many operate under the assumption that not only can we figure "everything" out, but some even feel we pretty much have.

Our brains are funny in that they create a cohesive whole out of fragments, so that it appears we've always got the whole picture.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: TinySickTears

Still didn't come through. Do you have a twitter account?

i dont.
i sent it to you via pm twice. i will just post it here but leave out a detail

this was the message

hey man. i have to do it here because the nature of it. not sure what you feelings are towards this but here it is.
last night i-------------- and it was like nothing i have ever felt or imagined. i am going to try and explain it but i wont be able to and it is going to sound like i am crazy but i will do the best i can.
i feel like my mind opened up immediately. there was so much information coming at me and going through me.
it was as much what i was feeling and thinking ans it was what i was seeing.
it was like i had multiple streams of consciousness going at one time. i felt like i was moving forward and backward through space/time(these are the closest words) at the same time with no concept of that time like how long it was taking me. i had a million thoughts going through my mind all at one time.
i am one who up until last night feared death cause i have no real belief system. last night i had thoughts of what if this lasts forever? what if i dont come back? what if i die? at the same moment i was thinking that i was totally ok with it if it happened. not scared at all.
i felt like i was occupying multiple dimensions(again, closest word) at the same time.
i was engulfed by geometric shapes.

i am 100% convinced that our minds are operating on a daily basis at a very small percentage of what it is capable of. i feel like in certain dream states or altered states like i was in last night your mind literally cracks open and starts operating at call it 90% of what it is capable of. there was huge amounts of information coming in.

i feel like what we are is our mind. not our bodies. i feel like for whatever reason we can not control or open our minds fully(except in little glimpses like i had last night) and out physical body is a way for us to get our minds from place to place. i feel like once we can control it we will have no use for a physical body a "we" are our minds.
think astral projection or time travel without physically going anywhere.
it exists in us and around us.

i am 100% convinced that all the theories on other possible dimensions are correct because i was there. i was everywhere at the same time.
i think these theories came about because people catch little glimpses of it via dreams or drug induced states.

think about when you die. your physical body and brain are still laying here in the casket but "you" are gone. your mind or your essence or soul or whatever you want to call it is gone.

i feel like a thousand or a million or whatever years from now we we be able to control our minds or essence or whatever so we will just 'be'

i know it sounds crazy or stupid or whatever but there is honestly no way to describe it. my wife was a bit on the fence about---------- so she did not and i have been trying to explain it to her but i can't. this is the best i can do right now.

put it like this. i am a changed person.

originally posted by: Serdgiam


I think the pattern recognition machine that is the human brain may be at the limit of what it can parse.


Our brains are funny in that they create a cohesive whole out of fragments, so that it appears we've always got the whole picture.

totally disagree with the first.
we are not even scratching the surface of what our brain/minds can do.

i understand that not everyone will understand this. i am 40 years old and i just realized this cause no matter what i read or hear you simply cant not fathom.

we are getting the smallest amount of a very large picture my friend

a reply to: TinySickTears

You might not have understood what I said, or read it all the way through.

I even said:

there is still a helluva long way to go before we reach the true limits of our hardware.

I do understand though, that the concept of the software, or Cultural Story, isn't one that is commonly talked about. Its easy to conflate hardware/software even with the computers in our home, much less the human system.