Iowa set to ban abortions after six weeks

a reply to: Bone75

only if your argument is that the rights of the fetus a women is carrying should be held above those of the women who is carrying it...
otherwise, those exceptions that you seem to dislike so much don't cover enough...

a reply to: Annee

they have no problem wasting the taxpayer's money to fight a losing battle through the courts?
unless they have a secret plan to get a few of the saner judges out of the supreme courtroom, this won't make the grade.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bone75

only if your argument is that the rights of the fetus a women is carrying should be held above those of the women who is carrying it...
otherwise, those exceptions that you seem to dislike so much don't cover enough...

I'd say the 6 week old life has the right to that life above the womans right to kill it, yes.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: dawnstar
well, the gov signed it...

www.cbsnews.com...

Super news. Pence was right when he said that the country was going to move towards protecting life.

Lol yup sure they are...
en.m.wikipedia.org...

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Or you know...just causing the same # to happen that happens in other countries where abortion is restricted or illegal.

Because, there's no such thing as doctors that will skirt the law for money, or people who just don't care about laws right?

All this will do is make it more dangerous for these women who aren't not going to not get an abortion because it's illegal...it just means they won't be able to go to a proper doctor and their health will be at risk.

I mean gun laws don't stop psychos do they? This is the argument i read constantly on here. In fact if i recall correctly won't banning guns just mean only bad guys will have guns? Drug laws don't stop drug addicts. Why would anti-abortion laws stop people from getting abortions?

All it'll do is the same thing as those other laws, just make it more dangerous for the people who will do it anyway.

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: dug88

Yes yes, it's terrible.
So have you been doing anything to stop the use of depleted uranium or anything else to make the world a better place?
Saving any African kids that are starving?
Housing any refugees?

Nope but I also don't sit here and babble on about how horrible abortion is cause...babies dying.

It seems like people forget...prior to 100 years ago a lot of babies died for various reasons and in many places in the world today still do. It was always just kind of accepted the parent's life came first. An adult can make more babies. A parentless baby is dead anyway.

Abortion has existed for thousands of years whether it's been surgery, herbal remedies or whatnot, because people have always understood you need resources to raise a child...I mean # even animals understand that hence why babies are left to die or just #ing eaten during times of food scarcity.

Yet, here you are. You must be grateful that your folks opted for one option over the ones you suggest are natural.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: dug88

Yes yes, it's terrible.
So have you been doing anything to stop the use of depleted uranium or anything else to make the world a better place?
Saving any African kids that are starving?
Housing any refugees?

Nope but I also don't sit here and babble on about how horrible abortion is cause...babies dying.

It seems like people forget...prior to 100 years ago a lot of babies died for various reasons and in many places in the world today still do. It was always just kind of accepted the parent's life came first. An adult can make more babies. A parentless baby is dead anyway.

Abortion has existed for thousands of years whether it's been surgery, herbal remedies or whatnot, because people have always understood you need resources to raise a child...I mean # even animals understand that hence why babies are left to die or just #ing eaten during times of food scarcity.

Yet, here you are. You must be grateful that your folks opted for one option over the ones you suggest are natural.

Hmmm the thing about that is...I wouldn't exist so it really wouldn't matter would it?

I mean it's not like I would know if I had been aborted would I? I just wouldn't be. I could also look at it this way...all the pain i've ever experienced, loss, misery, loneliness and the myriad of other things that life includes...I never would have experienced. Sure I never would have experienced the happy things either. But in the end life really isn't anything more than the things you experience and do and even then you pretty much only ever really have your memories and your own thoughts.

This thought of never being born doesn't really scare me.

I mean im going to die at some point anyway...there's literally nothing I can do about that. I'm kinda grateful every time I wake up in the morning and im not dead.

But any of us could die at any time. Life is like that...eventually it stops and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Whether it happens after 100 years, 10 years or before you're even born...you, me and everyone else will die.

a reply to: UKTruth

and if the pregnancy affects her health to the point where she cannot function adequately? then what?? does the fetus have the right to cause their host to endure months of disability, possibly hospitalization? what if that host has kids that she is the primary caregiver for?? guess their rights and well being can be sacrifices also?

even the healthiest pregnancy will cause short term..... and long term negative physical damage... even if it's just an iron deficiency, but sometimes the damage can be much more severe and much longer lasting.

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: dug88

Yes yes, it's terrible.
So have you been doing anything to stop the use of depleted uranium or anything else to make the world a better place?
Saving any African kids that are starving?
Housing any refugees?

Nope but I also don't sit here and babble on about how horrible abortion is cause...babies dying.

It seems like people forget...prior to 100 years ago a lot of babies died for various reasons and in many places in the world today still do. It was always just kind of accepted the parent's life came first. An adult can make more babies. A parentless baby is dead anyway.

Abortion has existed for thousands of years whether it's been surgery, herbal remedies or whatnot, because people have always understood you need resources to raise a child...I mean # even animals understand that hence why babies are left to die or just #ing eaten during times of food scarcity.

Yet, here you are. You must be grateful that your folks opted for one option over the ones you suggest are natural.

Hmmm the thing about that is...I wouldn't exist so it really wouldn't matter would it?

I mean it's not like I would know if I had been aborted would I? I just wouldn't be. I could also look at it this way...all the pain i've ever experienced, loss, misery, loneliness and the myriad of other things that life includes...I never would have experienced. Sure I never would have experienced the happy things either. But in the end life really isn't anything more than the things you experience and do and even then you pretty much only ever really have your memories and your own thoughts.

This thought of never being born doesn't really scare me.

I mean im going to die at some point anyway...there's literally nothing I can do about that. I'm kinda grateful every time I wake up in the morning and im not dead.

But any of us could die at any time. Life is like that...eventually it stops and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Whether it happens after 100 years, 10 years or before you're even born...you, me and everyone else will die.

Obviously. But that is no excuse to end the lives of others.

a reply to: UKTruth

If you are in the UK, you know we have abortion on demand and that will never change. If you wish to terminate after 6 weeks and live in a state that won't help, simply contact someone (lots of woman's aid goups) in the UK and we would be only too happy to purchase the drugs you need to end the pregnancy and send them to you. Failing that you get a cheap flight to the UK where an abortion can be obtained for a few hundred $$$. Abortion isn't even a big deal here, no one tries to make you feel guilty, it's all very matter of fact. All banning abortion does is stop the poorest members of society gaining access safe medical care. You can't stop abortion no matter what you do, you can ban it but that won't stop it, it was illegal, that didn't stop it. Women are now in control of their own bodies and minds and refuse to be dictated to by religious minority who want to control them. If you don't believe in abortion don't have but you don't get to stop women doing what they want with there own bodies.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bone75

only if your argument is that the rights of the fetus a women is carrying should be held above those of the women who is carrying it...
otherwise, those exceptions that you seem to dislike so much don't cover enough...

I'd say the 6 week old life has the right to that life above the womans right to kill it, yes.

They’re not six weeks old until they’re six weeks outside the womb, or is your birthday the date you were conceived?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: dug88

Yes yes, it's terrible.
So have you been doing anything to stop the use of depleted uranium or anything else to make the world a better place?
Saving any African kids that are starving?
Housing any refugees?

Nope but I also don't sit here and babble on about how horrible abortion is cause...babies dying.

It seems like people forget...prior to 100 years ago a lot of babies died for various reasons and in many places in the world today still do. It was always just kind of accepted the parent's life came first. An adult can make more babies. A parentless baby is dead anyway.

Abortion has existed for thousands of years whether it's been surgery, herbal remedies or whatnot, because people have always understood you need resources to raise a child...I mean # even animals understand that hence why babies are left to die or just #ing eaten during times of food scarcity.

Yet, here you are. You must be grateful that your folks opted for one option over the ones you suggest are natural.

Hmmm the thing about that is...I wouldn't exist so it really wouldn't matter would it?

I mean it's not like I would know if I had been aborted would I? I just wouldn't be. I could also look at it this way...all the pain i've ever experienced, loss, misery, loneliness and the myriad of other things that life includes...I never would have experienced. Sure I never would have experienced the happy things either. But in the end life really isn't anything more than the things you experience and do and even then you pretty much only ever really have your memories and your own thoughts.

This thought of never being born doesn't really scare me.

I mean im going to die at some point anyway...there's literally nothing I can do about that. I'm kinda grateful every time I wake up in the morning and im not dead.

But any of us could die at any time. Life is like that...eventually it stops and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Whether it happens after 100 years, 10 years or before you're even born...you, me and everyone else will die.

Obviously. But that is no excuse to end the lives of others.

No that's not...but tons have been posted just in this thread alone...not to mention honestly common sense. You know I agree..it really sucks to have to make the choice to do that...anyone I know that's done it has struggled with the decision long afterwards.

It would be really great if we lived in a perfect world where every human life mattered, where magic and pixie dust make every child born loved and cared for, where every human grew up with the things they need. Where every child not only living in some foster system or waiting to be adopted but every unborn child that would ever be could have a home and the things they needed to have reasonable lives.

You and others like you act like death is the worst thing that can happen to somebody...like every life should exist just because it's some kind of magic divine #ing miracle. That no matter how bad their life would likely end up being, how much it #s up anyone's life who is already currently alive that this little miracle of #ing creation needs to survive.

I really truly wish the world was a magic #ing fairy tale land where all this was true...but it's not.

The world isn't like that. People don't #ing survive on magic and dreams. For every one unwanted child born that ends up with a decent life...a dozen others experience hardships and misery the likes of which people like you don't seem to understand.

The world is not magic #ing fun land where every life that exists is going to be #ing awesome.

Here's an example...some girl gets pregnant because she's young and stupid and doesn't think of consequences has an abortion because hers and that child's life would have been # because she lacked the resources at the time to.care for herself and said child. Same girl then goes on to better her life...becomes less stupid and reckless...acquires necessary resources and has.a child she can look after properly and provide a decent life for.

Sure she ended the life of that first child...but that second child got a chance to make a life for itself that it would never have gotten otherwise..

I'm not saying this always happen...but every unwanted child doesn't have a magic #ing fairy tale life either.

The world isn't a narrow #ing place where every decision is either right or wrong.

By allowing women this choice you give both them and any potential children a chance at a better life than any of them would have without this choice.

Again it really sucks that it needs to come down to a choice like that...but that's the world we live in...it's a rough place and hopes and wishes and good #ing intentions won't change that.

This allows people a chance to get a choice at at least trying to have a reasonable life for them and any possible future children...you and people like you would deny people like that that choice because # future consequences every #ing baby is a magic #ing miracle...well it's not..human beings are really easy to make...you don't have to try very hard...it's kinda that thing we do...

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Annee

they have no problem wasting the taxpayer's money to fight a losing battle through the courts?
unless they have a secret plan to get a few of the saner judges out of the supreme courtroom, this won't make the grade.

I am so sick of this.

It just isn't anyone else's damn business.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

I think the problem is that people can't agree when the baby is considered a person.
Until that is resolved it's just going to be argued in circles.

I liked the justification I heard on the radio, paraphrasing: "We consider someone deceased when their heart stops beating. Therefore, we should consider the inverse when it starts."

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Annee

they have no problem wasting the taxpayer's money to fight a losing battle through the courts?
unless they have a secret plan to get a few of the saner judges out of the supreme courtroom, this won't make the grade.

I am so sick of this.

It just isn't anyone else's damn business.

SCOTUS disagreed with you:

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113, 162

"We repeat, however, that the State does have an important and legitimate interest in preserving and protecting the health of the pregnant woman, whether she be a resident of the State or a non-resident who seeks medical consultation and treatment there, and that [the State] has still another important and legitimate interest in protecting the potentiality of human life.".

Emphasis mine.

Meaning the State governments can make the preservation of a child's life their business.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't really care.

It's none of their damn business.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't really care.

It's none of their damn business.

It's none of your business if I wanna kill my dog and eat it either, but the society I live in has decided it is. So I can either just go without dogmeat, or I can go find myself a society that's more welcoming to the practice.

a reply to: Annee

it's kind of ironic that where abortion does have strict bans, public opinion (or world opinion) has pressured the conservative govt to consider loosening them. often times, it a horror story, like the thousands of women who were imprisoned in el salvadore for having an abortion/miscarriage, or Savita Halappanavar's agonizing death in Ireland, or the now blind Alicja Tysiac of poland that begins the spark that causes the calls for change. and you can find these horror stories in every place that has strict abortion ban, and yes you might as well call a heartbeat bill a ban since far too many women wouldn't even realize they were pregnant before six weeks.
I think that the courts will shoot this law down, I really do. but, if I am wrong, then well... experience is a great teacher!!
maternal deaths have been rising as it is, laws like this will cause it to increase. I'll no longer have to hunt down the horror stories, they will be all much more prevalent... and when it's their wives, their daughters, their close friends that are affected... well, they will call for the change.

cohen paid off a women for some high ranking republican fundraiser I believe to abort his baby.... according to stories, he may also have hired someone to threaten another woman in an attempt to keep her quiet about her relationship with trump. could he have also threatened the women to coerce her to have the abortion?? if the first two stories are true, then I find the third to be a strong possibility. and this all seems to be perfectly acceptable to the right.. no big deal at all.... if a man is rich enough, powerful enough, oh ya, he should have the means to choose to abort his baby... coerce the women into it...
what they are finding objectionable I think is the idea that a women, according to her conscious, her understanding of the situation she is currently in, along with her doctors who are the best equipped to determine state of health and the risks a pregnancy posed to her, should be the one making the final decision.

an abortion ban would only mean that the cohens of the world, would be paying a higher price for the backalley abortion that is far less safe that he has coerced the women his client screwed with in order to protect his clients reputation...

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I do believe that there maybe also be something about the point of viability in there somewhere??
so, when you can tell me that there's a way to remove a six week fetus and transplant it somewhere safely and it has a reasonable chance of living.... let me know....

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: UKTruth

and if the pregnancy affects her health to the point where she cannot function adequately?

What if having the child has the same effect? Now you've got an unhappy kid in the system because if you can't take care of the kid adequately they'll take it. Now you've got a drain on the welfare system. The system these guys complain about all the time. "Entitlement". Ya can't bitch about both. Pick one.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bone75

only if your argument is that the rights of the fetus a women is carrying should be held above those of the women who is carrying it...
otherwise, those exceptions that you seem to dislike so much don't cover enough...

I'd say the 6 week old life has the right to that life above the womans right to kill it, yes.

They’re not six weeks old until they’re six weeks outside the womb, or is your birthday the date you were conceived?

Doing the math I was conceived on Labor Day so I guess I do.