Drug rehab or jail, which is the better use of taxes?

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

When you're an evil sadistic psychopath then obviously locking people up in prison, and criminalizing them, where they might get raped shanked and murdered for it, is clearly the one and only solution.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

A combination of both. I forget which European country did it (Portugal maybe) but they made first time drug offenders choose the outcome.

They were given the option of drug rehab OR a jail sentence for the drug offense. After the first prosecution / rehab choice continued offenses were increasingly pushed into the criminal incarceration instead of rehab since it obviously does not work with some people.

originally posted by: MerkabaTribeEntity
It's not simply that the current system isn't working anymore; it's never worked.

It was starting to work when we had the left wing government (Labour) in power through the 90's, there were many more rehab places available on the NHS and less street drug use as I see now since 'austerity' cutbacks.
Right now it can take 6 months just to be referred to the right service, so I see why people struggle desperately to 'get clean' on their own with no support.

a reply to: Blaine91555
Yes, massively punish the 'wholesalers' I share your thoughts


a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Agreed

a reply to: Xcathdra
Yes it was Portugal and they seem to be having much success since looking at addicts in a medical sense as opposed to criminal justice.
You are correct though, some crim's will always be crim's so prison is best for the rest of society.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Many of these people are suffering mental health problems and are in that situation because their mental health support has been cruelly withdrawn due to govt cutbacks and gross underfunding.

This tory govt doesn't want to spend our tax monies helping/treating vulnerable people. It prefers to abandon them and share up the savings between themselves to pay for their boozy dinners in any of the many heavily taxpayer-subsidised restaurants and bars, and yet more pay rises.

I agree with you OP, vulnerable people should be helped up and not abandoned. What are we paying NI contributions for? It's clearly not being spent on helping the unfortunate and vulnerable, even our pensions have been outrageously and criminally raided, so where is/has all our money going/gone? Criminals.

Boils my piss no end.

Are you guys saying that people get thrown in jail because of their addiction? Or is it activity related to their problem that gets them incarcerated? Theft, driving, etc.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The smart move would be to legalize drugs, introduce quality testing, and then tax them like any other product.

The proceeds of such could even be used to fund rehabilitation of anyone who requires such and the criminal element would be removed from the equation also hence free up the gaols for the real criminals.

a reply to: doobydoll
Totally agree with you, why the # do we need nuclear missiles? Imagine the social care budget being funded by Trident instead, every vulnerable person in the nation would be cared for.
FFS even if Russia struck us first and pretty much screwed our little island, I don't want Britain killing millions of normal people like me in Moscow or St Petersburgh or wherever, just in revenge.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


Drug rehab in jail, and then death by snapping turtle.

Why spend tax dollars on anything related to drugs?

We should be raking in tax dollars from drug sales.

Legalize and tax the sale of all drugs.

Then we don't need to put people in jail over drug sales/use.

Why spend tax dollars trying to rehabilitate people that decided to use drugs on their on volition?

This is a tough subject. I tend to lean more towards putting people in rehab, so in the future, IF they get their act together, they wont have the anchor of a record that will make getting a good job damn near impossible. That said, I have been around a fair amount of addicts in my day, and they use rehabs for a place to stay and to stay out of jail, knowing full well that they intend to keep using drugs when done. Some even use drugs while IN REHAB. At what point do we (as the taxpayers) draw the line to stop paying for someones rehab, if they have shown over and over again that they do not want to get sober? Maybe at that point, tough love is appropriate, and jail time is warranted.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I live in a beautiful part of Texas and the drug problem here is rampant. There doesn't seem to be any answer to the problem. Your story reminded me of a story I saw, I believe, on the US News show, 60 Minutes with Morley Safer. The story covered a family in Tennessee, where the entire family, Man, Women and two teen age kids, girl and boy, lived in a Mobile home which they had converted into a Meth Lab. Meth production and of course consumption was their way of life and liveliehood for several years. Meth production produces much foul odor, so to keep the odors inside the Mobile home, they lined the whole thing in thick black plastic. One day, the mobile home caught fire and it went up in a flash. They were trapped inside with the black plastic falling all over them, melting onto their bodies as they tried to escape. They did manage to survive but their burns treatments cost the local County hospital millions of dollars. After a year or so, they were all released. 6 months later, a case worker checked on them and found they'd gotten a new mobile home and had returned to manufacturing Meth.

All that said, I'm a bit skeptical of the "treatment/rehab" option. It works for a few but I doubt it works for more than 50%.

Probably the way to make the best use of taxpayers money is to:
1) legalize the drugs, let the State do the selling and reap a profit therefrom, and/or allow private sales but collect a sales tax.
2) provide free drugs to the badly addicted such that they don't have to engage in crime to get their "fix".
3) Do something to address the homeless problem; I would have to guess that the badly addicted end up homeless on the streets. That needs be addressed and I'd suggest large scale sequestration from general commerce and warehousing the homeless in humane conditions. The badly addicted won't last very long so it should be a manageable solution.

With all that in mind, both Prison and Hospital are obviously the biggest waste of taxpayers money.

originally posted by: intrepid
Are you guys saying that people get thrown in jail because of their addiction? Or is it activity related to their problem that gets them incarcerated? Theft, driving, etc.

Personal possession of even class A is unlikely prison unless a repeat offender and the courts are sick of seeing you.
It's the theft and prostitution that gets the term inside, but with drugs so easy to get in prison, and almost zero addiction/mental health services, they just get released then rinse and repeat.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

LMAO, was waiting for your funny one liner

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Just one Russian ICBM and accompanying warheads could quite simply blanket our entire island in nuclear fire.

There was absolutely no point in Britan entering into the nuclear arms game, never has been, never will be.

Without Trident we could indeed fund our NHS adequately for at least the next decade or so.

Then there is the fact that we would no longer be a primary first strike target in any nuclear exchange if it did occur.

Stupid idea really. LoL

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Rehab, rehab, rehab...then jail time.

Those who are utterly addicted (mind, body and soul) create crime waves. Burglary and shoplifting go up with only a handful of the buggers. I've known people who'd steal a mate's bank card and who've burgled their parents. One guy's girlfriend went on holiday and he turned her home into a smack den and they cleaned the house out - even the brass door fittings were sold. There's black humour in there even though it's tragic.

It's not an answer to their problems, but it's definitely for the greater good to get them out of communities.

The downside of jails is how saturated they are with drugs. For example, another friend's brother is in prison for serious assault and armed robbery. He sends her pics of parties and being wasted in the cells. You can go in clean and come out addicted to spice, gear and whatever else.

Making it all available via prescription at least gives society a fighting chance to get people clean and cuts out the crime waves.

a reply to: TonyS

Success rates of drug rehab centers are claimed to be around 30%.

I think that figure is inflated.

The Daily Beast

Some brilliant replies and interesting opinions so thanks to everyone so far, sorry if I can't keep up and reply to everyone, but really appreciated for the interesting discussion.

a reply to: intrepid

The activity is a symptom of the addiction. You remove the addiction and I believe most would never have done anything to begin with. To remove the addiction, means dealing with what caused them to start self medicating in the first place and jail is the antithesis of that IMO. What's the point of it?

I suspect the first time addicts are arrested, rehabilitation would be far more effective in helping them if they never went to jail and instead went straight to a treatment facility for at least 3 months. From being involved with a treatment program I do know, reality is that more like 6 months should actually be the minimum. It' takes 6 months at least to change behavior.

You deal with it early on, the later problems of stealing or other crimes to support habits would never happen to begin with.

It's not just the legal system that is at fault though IMO. The other issue is family and friends enabling the behavior or covering up for it, instead of immediately seeking help for their loved one, even if it has to be court ordered.

Rehabs. Some people just have a disposition to becoming alcoholics or Addicts. But whether you believe that or not drugs like Cocaine, Opiates, Meth, crack, Heroin and hook most people and once addicted it's very hard to get clean and sober. and even if you do, you're life is in shambles.

We know that, at least here in the us, Prisons have a terrible record of rehabilitation and getting people ready for the real world.

Rehabs should be heavily funded. It would save us billions in the long run in police expenses, incarceration expenses, Legal expenses, property damage expenses, medical expenses.