Drug rehab or jail, which is the better use of taxes?

a reply to: jidnum

Wow, lack of humanity much?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


I don't know how I'd describe my addiction but it's not to escape from anything, just the lust for that feeling of being coked up again. Luckily I know how weak willed I am so don't fall to the temptation in case I make the same mistakes again and blow all my money.

I won't lie though, those 9 months were a fantastic experience for the time it lasted. Shallow of course, but fantastic looking back with a guilty smile inside.

Thanks for sharing your story.

The first paragraph may be true or may be a superficial examination of your motivations. Only you can uncover in time.

On the second, point my comment would be to ask yourself how much harm to yourself and others was caused by this 9 months of indulgence?

You may not be an addict, perhaps this experience may have been enough to convince you that this selfish interlude was not who you wanted to be.

That doesn't mean that you aren't dealing with 'attachment' problems - just that you are choosing to deal with them in a more mature manner. Congratulations, you are growing up and accepting responsibility for your own actions.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
Who are these drug addicts anyway?

They are mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, granddaughters, grandsons, doctors, lawyers, carpenters, plumbers, church leaders, politicians and ............................ They sit next to you in church (whether you admit it or not), at work and many of them are invisible to others. The only difference between the addict who puts on a suit and tie every day and goes to their office and an addict living in a cardboard box, is money.

The highly respected community leader who inhales a few bottles of wine every night or sucks down a bottle of expensive scotch is exactly the same as any addict on the streets. Yet society helps one and throws away the other. What does that say about us and how our laws are applied?

Money is not the difference between an 'addict' and a 'non-addict'. Addiction does not discriminate.

What discriminates are the police, the courts, - the system so to speak. Money only changes how an 'addict' is treated, the options they have, not the fact of addiction.

a reply to: FyreByrd

If you grew up with money, had an expensive education, have a high paying job and become addicted to a drug or become an alcoholic, you get a free pass, insurance funded treatment and a family and maybe even a job waiting with arms outstretched after.

If you grew up in poverty, the product of a bad home and become addicted, you are cast out of society, locked out of your home, treated like garbage by so called "decent folks".

Money plays a huge role.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: FyreByrd

If you grew up with money, had an expensive education, have a high paying job and become addicted to a drug or become an alcoholic, you get a free pass, insurance funded treatment and a family and maybe even a job waiting with arms outstretched after.

If you grew up in poverty, the product of a bad home and become addicted, you are cast out of society, locked out of your home, treated like garbage by so called "decent folks".

Money plays a huge role.

You miss understand the relationship involved. It has nothing to do with actual addiction (I know several 'privileged' individuals that are addicts - in fact, it's often nearly impossible for these folks to recover because of their 'privilege').

How money discriminates is in how the addict is treated by the social system. They can buy their way out of the consequences of their addiction. But the addiction with it's underlying disfunction is still in play.

The less well off are only more likely to be forced by society to pay for their addictive behaviors.

The wealthy are more likely to have the interpersonal attachment disorders then the middle class and poor and therefore one can stipulate that as a percentage of population, the wealthy are more likely to be addicts of one sort or another.

a reply to: FyreByrd

No worries, a true story is all it is, but I still struggle to see any attachment issues to blame, I looked through your list again and don't identify with any of them.
I would still consider myself a coc aine addict though, only last night I forced myself to decline the offer of a line at a party, I really wanted it and was the only one not coked up in the house, boring bastard lol. Just I know if I do it again there is a risk I'll then buy a gramme and after that who knows what road I could go down making choices coked up.

As far as my nine months of selfish behaviour goes though, nobody, and I repeat nobody suffered except me losing 80 grand. My young child actually had an energetic fun dad who danced with them in my arms, was up for all kinds of adventures and outwardly 'full of beans'.
The only victim of that was my bank balance, and yep I'd love that 80 grand in the bank again but I have a nice little house and my now adult child is successful and doing well so I pulled off the parenting thing.
I am still a coke head though in my heart, not for any attachment issues, just because the feeling of being coked up is still a massive lure to me. My heart raced when I declined lines last night, that tells me enough to know I'm still an addict. I wanted that feeling again, no big psychological background reasons behind it, I just wanted to be coked up.

EDIT
And for clarity, my addiction is drug specific. If a genie came out of a bottle and said he'd ban every mind altering substance from alcohol to Dimethyltryptamine, and everything in between, except one of my choosing, I'd actually choose MDMA not coke.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Actually you seem to be agreeing with me?

I say give them some basic training and send them as peacekeepers to Afghanistan.

In the day you harvest the poppies, and at night you chase the dragon.

Make it like a working holiday, or an exchange program.

Everybody's happy.

a reply to: halfoldman

One drug I've never tried Heroin.
I'm saving that for an overdose while I'm still able to inject myself when I need my ass wiping by care workers.
My family know this full well and we talk casually about it. I don't want to 'exist' being cared for and I don't want my legacy/inheritance to be eaten up by care costs either.
Heroin has killed 2 friends of mine, both wanted help but there is pretty much no tax funded rehab in my area.
It is fitting that if I'm in the situation wanting to end my life, then the drug I've never tried will be my goodbye high.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I'm obviously making a bit of light on a very vast and complex topic.

Not to go into illicit drug talk, but made it to 43, and heroin has never been my thing (won't say I never tried it though, in some form).
I also know addicts who go to work every day, and they didn't find the proverbial "hell".
Of course they are still dependent on the "goodwill" of illicit dealers for the quality and consistency of their product.

But if I was in really serious pain (especially end-stage cancer or AIDS), I'd get some derivative, or I would pray for it.

Funny to think up to the late 1950's (1970's in some countries) returning army veterans received daily maintenance doses.
Few of them overdosed, and most led productive lives into old age.
It wasn't even seen as a social problem.

Most of the problems associated with it, I'd argue, are due to Prohibition.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Rehab seems the better alternative to assist in trying to get people back into society on better terms.
If they are imprisoned due to drug addiction related issues it may not help much because they can still get drugs in the prison. Which only assist further their drug addiction issue in the end...

originally posted by: halfoldman
Most of the problems associated with it, I'd argue, are due to Prohibition.

I'd agree with you there. If heroin addicts went to a state controlled pharmacy they'd get exact doses of 'clean' substances without having to deal with criminals. There could also be places to inject, preventing needles being discarded in back lanes and the like.
I'm personally tired of safely disposing of other peoples needles which I see most days.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Rehab seems the better alternative to assist in trying to get people back into society on better terms.
If they are imprisoned due to drug addiction related issues it may not help much because they can still get drugs in the prison. Which only assist further their drug addiction issue in the end...

Exactly how I see things

Combination of the 2. Jail to get them clean then rehab to help them stay clean. Putting them in jail then just letting them out away they go right back to the only thing they know. Weekly drops and checks would help.

But some people just flat don't care.

I got a DUI 30 years ago and didn't drink for 7 years. The system didn't believe anything I told or proved to them.

a reply to: mikell

I agree, but we need to clean up British jails first. Drugs are easily available amongst prisoners, a mate of mine did time and came out with the same habit he had before he went in.
I mentioned previously that my sister is a nurse in a secure rehab facility, they test the ̶i̶n̶m̶a̶t̶e̶s̶ patients every few days or if they suspect contraband has been smuggled in. They have a good success rate of rehabilitation but sadly the facility is privately run so the cost is out of reach of your average addict.

As for me, court-ordered rehabs is the best what our government can do for people who struggle with addiction. The system is designed in a good way so when drug-addicted people are arrested for a drug- or alcohol-related offense, they may have access to a rehabilitation program as an alternative to jail time. (addictionresource.com...).
The Justice Research and Statistics Association reports the following positive results for drug rehab versus jail time:
1.Re-arrest of 57% of individuals undergoing rehabilitation within 12 months.
2.Conviction of 42% of individuals undergoing drug rehab in comparison to 65% of those without rehabilitation.
3.New jail sentences for 30% of individuals that had undergone drug rehab within 12 months compared to 51% of those who skipped drug rehabilitation.
So it really works. I understand that in general, it will not be able to influence the reduction in the number of drug addicts, but at least it will help people who really want to overcome addiction, but cannot afford it.