God as an Atheist

originally posted by: Woodcarver


For those who believe in god, what do you gain, that an unbeliever can’t get without this belief?

I don't believe god in sense of religion dogma.

But I do believe our universe is far too big and structural to exist on it's own. Even if our universe started as product of infinite bigbang loops, those loops still required something else to trigger.

Something infinite and intelligent that science fail to answer.

Something that cause my consciousness of being me to exist in my brain, instead of my brothers or sisters even though we are born by the same parent.

I don't exist before I was born. But I know well when my senses started to function. Enough to know I can't possibly alive just because my heart began to pump blood and those neurotical brain wires began to connect each others. There is something else that trigger me alive.


Something to look for until science have better solution to offer.

The written language is one of the poorest forms of communication, so I will only try and express my understanding from these pages. I am sure some will disagree, but thats okay, we learn by agreeing and disagreeing. Here is a weak definition in understanding God. As you are skeptical in these thoughts and believe your position, I am equally positioned in what I believe. But rest assured, I do not think in anyway either of us is better then the other, Christian, Atheist, or other. . I like the brotherhood of man and I like discussing our different points of view. Also I am poor at putting words to page.

Imagine a God, and why is He God, because out of all the intelligence of the universe he is greatest. What makes Him the greatest? What makes the universe want to serve Him?
Because of all the intelligence's of the universe, This being has the capacity to have pure intent, understanding, Love, compassion for all things.
If it is not known, it will be, that intelligence is found in equal proportions to all mass, seen or not seen in the eternal nature of all there is. The multiple levels of intelligence give us the variable components needed for the universe to even exists. Comprehension must be present in order for mass and space, which move in the multiplex, and create time and substance and energy. So intelligence is only a component in the structure of all things, this is why the matter of the universe obeys His desires, and it comprehends Him.
And as we have the super universe we have the infinitely small universe where different dimensional separations are made, along with the multiplicities of energy and the formation of time variance that manifests itself as different forms of matter on the many dimensional lines of perception.
Look at matter when brought to absolute zero, it begins to break the laws of matter as we understand them; why because they are in a different state of definitions; at that time matter has entered a dimensional shift. Don't know if that is a good example.
Now, you have a God who not only understands these things but who has a personal mission to bring other intelligence up from lower states. He lays a plan and not only uses the rules He understands but implements other rules as a programmer would on a game he is inventing. Those rules are to provide boundaries for which those of a lower state must abide in order to learn and progress along a path towards Him. He works with all intelligence and provides a way for each to reach a higher level. But all are not alike and the capacity of many are different. So then we have a variety of life, which this God delights in in, He loves variety. Variety is indeed the beauty of the universe, in the multiplicity of life, matter and in intelligence.
But there is intellegence's which are closer to His in like and manner, that is us. This is why Jesus said is it not written we are Gods? But Jesus was more like Him then any other intelligence, as well as others are, and it is they with God who set the foundation of this world.

Okay why the failures? because this life is not the stage where most of us become like Him. Some have, Enoch, Abraham, Moses and others. But for us it is the point in our progress where we receive a mortal experience. A body which will give us the ability to go beyond where we were before. Everyone born are greater then they were when we lived in the pre-life.
Everyone born is in the probationary state where we choose our path in growth and in understanding and in obedience to the light of Christ we are born with. That is to say, we know we don't want to get hurt, so we don't hurt anyone. We know we don't want to be stolen from, so we don't steal.
Violence and murder and disease and war seems overwhelming and we ask how can a loving God support beings who live like this?
But all who die return to Him, and all who die will rise again to receive the gift he promised. He will judge because he is the only one with the capacity to understand the makings of our lives. Those who can move forward will, and those who cannot will stay in the state of eternal life, they are most happy in. The hell talked about by so many, will be a personal hell, knowing we had the pathway to be like God and we are no longer on that path.
But also remember, that those children who passed away before being accountable for life, were received back to that very God who sent them. If staying on the earth was needed for them, something would have happen to preserve their lives. Thus the miracles. These children only needed enough time on earth to obtain a body for their next journey towards God, and they will be resurrected and progress onward when the right time comes. Having a mortality rate of 3 to 2 children living out of thirteen, better and worse pending on the place and civilization born, more children of God have ventured through this earth, then have lived to maturity and died, been murdered or been a murderer or were tyrants, or were Saints, since the world began.
All are then the children of this God an this is only a simple and a poor explanation of why we call Him Father. So we live the best we can, we learn the best we can, all He wants for us here is to be actively engaged in progression. If we do not walk life in the blindness of mortality, and if God had given us pure knowledge and understanding all of our lives. Would we be growing? Or would it be just Him growing us? He has given us freedom to become, and the only way to do that is to give us blindness in who we are and why we are. In doing so we are growing as guided by the light he left in the world for us to follow. He hopes we reach perfection, but in this state it is not paramount. It is the reaching and the growing He will use to justify us through His son He gave to cleanse us. The Atonement of Jesus Christ, and the acceptance of Him is the pathway back to our Father. All will have an equal chance, in acknowledging Him as the son of God. Even those who do not know Him now.
The universe will be satisfied




a reply to: AlienView

originally posted by: FlukeSkywalker
You created us to begin with. You're a monster.

That's right, "God." You put us in a crappy situation in a weak, frail body driven by pain, extremely limited sensory input, and intelligence barely above an ape. You give us some fleeting pleasure, but then it's right back to the pain. Then you load us up with a lot of rules that make the situation even more difficult, with the primary focus on telling us NOT to do most of the few things we get pleasure from. Then you give us a very limited lifespan, where the last of our years are even more painful. And to top it all off, you threaten us that if we don't follow the rules, then after we die we'll be subjected to endless torture.

And you want us to worship you for that? Yeah, right.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
God gave you choices...

Yeah, but if God is the guy holding all the cards, him giving you a "choice" is like him having you pick a card from a stacked deck. If I truly had "free will," why can't I choose to be an immortal entity the size of a moon made entirely from crystalized titanium? That way I wouldn't have to even worry about anything silly like "coveting my neighbor's goods."

That's the problem. There's almost no way to define God without immediately creating paradoxes. Omniscient transtemporal entity with human values and emotions? Nope. Superpowerful being encompassing everything in reality, but still lacking something to the point where it feels like it has to create the universe? Ludicrous. That same superbeing demanding that we worship him? Why? Controlling every atom in the universe but allowing us "free will?" Forget it.

Maybe the Gnostics were right and we're at the mercy of a crazy, very powerful entity (Adalbaoth, Saklas, etc.) who is definitely NOT God the Creator Entity, but thinks it is, and is torturing us in this reality because he doesn't know better. The crazy Programmer. And we're just along for the horrific ride.

a reply to: AlienView

Maybe he continues to survive by laughing at idiots rather than taking them seriously?

n heaven the Lord laughs as he sits on his throne, making fun of the nations.

Psalms 2:4

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Abednego

For those who believe in god, what special knowledge do you gain, that an unbeliever can’t understand?

The ability to discern between good, bad and just. Believers tend to rely too much in faith and hope, but forget that they have the power to make things work they way they want.
There is a science in spirituality, that gives you the ability to stay who you are beyond the physical realm. This is not about religion. This instructions are hidden all over the world in ancient books.
Is not just about knowledge. Knowledge alone does not prove anything, is useless. But to put that knowledge into practice, that is where you start to gain insight of what is beyond.

Unbelievers will never understand why to believe in the existence of a superior eternal being that created us and the universe. They usually need to have the experience. But the knowledge is not for everyone. Is out there for everyone to read but not everybody will understand.

Mathew chapter 13:9-13
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Do you really think that atheist cannot tell the difference between good and bad?

Who's good? Yours? Mine?

Hitlers?

Obamas?

Where do you set your bar for good?

Good gets problematic if it's subjective.

There has to be an objective good, like objective truth.

Otherwise, anything goes and anyone can end up on the #end of the stick.

How do you come to an objective truth?

Where to start:
First off, you allowed religions based on you, or aspects of you, alternate reality you(s), take your pick. You let the leaders of these religions do whatever they want, with no correction whatsoever- to the detriment of everyone else. You allowed a medium of exchange to ru(i)n our lives, which also is used by your religious hacks/ leaders to control and divide us. You let the extension of religion creep into political leaders' decisions, along with greed, to cause us unending sorrow and pain.

You got no one to blame but yourself for this mess.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
There has to be an objective good, like objective truth.
Otherwise, anything goes and anyone can end up on the #end of the stick.

That pretty much describes existence, all right. Have you noticed how the wicked prevail and the righteous are punished? All of our works both good and bad are equally mocked by death. Prove to me otherwise.

originally posted by: AlienView
Category: Philosophical speculation

Just Imagine - Imagine for one minute there is an all powerful God - A creator who can create anything
- The Creator who gave us 'the Big Bang' - Created all time and space, was the originator of the biological experiment leading to Man.

And of course in this mythology the Bible is all fact - God intervenes time and time again in his cultivaltion of his favorite creative
end product - Man.

Still with me? - OK - Now imagine for one minute that I am this very famous mythical god - And you are part of my creative endeavor.

You have a very limited understanding of what an omnipotent God would be like. A creator God is all about the realization of every possibility achievable with every possible constraint imaginable. We are perfect in God's eye exactly because we have so many limitations, imperfection, sins, and flaws. We are God's favorite reality show.

Naw...if you are God then I want ya to know you are solid as that rock.....yes, flameproof you are.....flameproof as that bush

.chin up on this sojourn, pip pip, cherrio

OK Humans you are succeeding in bringing out my Atheistic side.

So I made a mistake - Maybe an egotistical thinking humanoid wasn't the best idea,

The good news is it will all be over soon - 'They' are creating a superior [to the biological Human] android
- Calculates perfectly, thinks better, more logically and is much longer lasting - All parts are replaceable
and upgradeable.

So like the dinosaur [they were kind of likeable once you got to know them] Man is about to become history.

Sorry, but you offer little hope and I don't want to keep a failing experiment going.

So are you ready for the future



“We're so self-important. So arrogant. Everybody's going to save something now. Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save the snails. And the supreme arrogance? Save the planet! Are these people kidding? Save the planet? We don't even know how to take care of ourselves; we haven't learned how to care for one another. We're gonna save the #in' planet? . . . And, by the way, there's nothing wrong with the planet in the first place. The planet is fine. The people are #ed! Compared with the people, the planet is doin' great. It's been here over four billion years . . . The planet isn't goin' anywhere, folks. We are! We're goin' away. Pack your #, we're goin' away. And we won't leave much of a trace. Thank God for that. Nothing left. Maybe a little Styrofoam. The planet will be here, and we'll be gone. Another failed mutation; another closed-end biological mistake.”
― George Carlin


“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.”
― Carl Sagan, The Varieties of Scientific Experience: A Personal View of the Search for God

originally posted by: AlienView
Category: Philosophical speculation...
...Still with me? - OK - Now imagine for one minute that I am this very famous mythical god - And you are part of my creative endeavor...

...Now I want to ask you Human - Where did I go wrong? - You no longer believe in me and I no longer believe in you...

...Now I want to know where I went wrong? - ...

...I know you will keep blaming me for this - But I ask you Human don't you think your species could have done better ?...
...- AlienView, Channeling God

Hey God.
Fishin' for a little love, are ya?

We are told you are many things: our creator; our father; omnipotent; all-seeing; all-knowing; all-powerful...

Let's look at what kind of a father you are to us:
Imagine a man becoming a father, and being blessed with many beautiful, innocent children.
As they sit around the dinner table, the children are in turmoil, as the father just sits there silently.

The roof is leaking. The house is cold. There is not enough food, and clean water for all.
At a place of honor, beside the father, sits uncle reverend Bob.
Since uncle reverend Bob has moved-in to the best room in the house, he has been having extended private talks with little Billy.
Since then: little Billy has stopped playing with the other children. He just sits alone, and quietly sobs.
But uncle reverend Bob collects money for the father on Sundays, so the father has traded little Billy's innocence, for a set of golden candlesticks.

Whatever the children ask the father for: he tells them to do it themselves.
If the children are unhappy: the father tells them it is their own fault.
But the father loves to indulge his children in long, windy speeches, about how wonderful he is, and how everything good in their lives is by the grace of the father.

All of the suffering, and complaints of the children, go unanswered by the father.
He puts guilt-trips on them. Blames and shames then into quiet acquiescence.

In any modern society: the children would be taken away for their own benefit, caused by gross negligence by the father.

Thats the kind of father you are, to us.
Just about the worst example of a father that we can conceive-of.
Yet you're supposed to be omnipotent; all-seeing; all-knowing; and all-powerful.
So much worse even.


Let's look at what kind of a creator you are:
Am imagining a kind of world, populated by gods/creators.
Am imagining a sort of elementary school, and a typical science-fair, for young juvenile creators.

As the elders do the rounds, observing, questioning, and commenting on the little creator's projects, they come to little Susie creator.
What do we have here? Susie has created a model of a world.
"What's this Susie?"
"This is a young world, filled with volcanoes, earthquakes; moving continental plates; ice-ages; sudden pole-reversals; and it gets bombarded by comets, asteroids, and possibly even small planetary bodies."
"Very nice Susie. Have you put any life-forms into your project?"
"Oh no! That would be much to dangerous for any precious life. Could you not imagine the constant strife, and elimination of the species?"
The elders all nod in approuval. "Good job Susie".

Next: the elders come to little Chen's table.
"What's this Chen?"
"This is a model of a 3-world interaction. Each of the 3 worlds has their own strengths, and weaknesses. Each world shares their strength with the other two, and does their best to mitigate the weaknesses of the other two.
They interact with fairness, justice, equality, and equanimity for all."
"Very nice Chen. Beautiful, ambitious, and harmonious. Don't they have any trials and tribulations?"
"Oh no! That would be cruel, and undeserving".
The elders all nod in approuval. "Good job Chen".

Next: the elders come to little God's table.
"What's this God?"
"You shall address me as the omnipotent; all-seeing; all-knowing; and all-powerful; King of kings; and God over all other gods."
"Errrr. Umm. Ok. Please tell us about your creation".
"I, the omnipotent; all-seeing; all-knowing; and all-powerful; King of kings; and God over all other gods, have created this paradise of a world, and all of it's inhabitants, must bow-down before me."
"Oh! We see you still have a very geographically active world, and have included many species of life to this. Interesting, and unexpected choice."
" Yeah. "I, the omnipotent; all-seeing; all-knowing; and all-powerful; King of kings; and God over all other gods, was bored with the regular stuff, and felt like just throwing it all into a big salad bowl, and seeing what transpires."
"But the people are under constant strife and trauma, and live in sheer misery! Why would you do this to them?"
"I can do whatever the heck I want! It's my project, my world, and my creation."
"Murmur-murmer-murmer... What's this over here?"
"I call that war. I draw a random line on the ground, then the people on either side of the line have to fight each other until they're all dead, except maybe one."
"Oh my... And what is this, and this, and that?"
"That would be: pestillence; famine; starvation; drought; murder; rape; pedophilia; sickness; disease; abject poverty; unfathomable misery; hopelessness; torture; theft; abuse of the innocent; lies; conspiracy; selfishness; arrogance; conceit; pain, hurt, and wide-scale random suffering. And I might have left a few out."
"..."?
"He-he."


So that's the kind of creator you are.
Where the wise elder creators, need to go to a private room, and discuss how disturbed they are, about little juvenile God, kind of creator.
Pretty much the absolute worst, unimaginablly horrible, and troubled creator, conceivable.

So this arrogant, self-centered, narcisistic, psychopathic prick of a father/god/creator, wants to know if us simple humans could have done better?
Seriously?

You know Man what is really curious about this post is not the hypothetical god thing - NO - it is how many people feel
some sort of deep psychological need to respond to it - Why

Remember it was begun as a hypothetical - Not as an attempt to prove or disprove anything.

I am a writer, a theorist, futurist, and hopefully an interesting entertainer of futurism - God is what you believe,
or disbelieve in - Nothing more and nothing less.

Which is not to say that there is much power in belief - Just understand that the power source, until proven otherwise,
is still hypothetical.

So keep spouting away - give me no flags or stars as obviously you do not like this subject you feel obligated to respond
to - And who knows maybe I [as a Human] will receive the all time record for the most responses on a thread with
the lowest flags and stars ? - The dubious achievemnt award for 2018.

And your intelligent response Human.............





“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.”
― Carl Sagan, The Varieties of Scientific Experience: A Personal View of the Search for God

originally posted by: AlienView
You know Man what is really curious about this post is not the hypothetical god thing - NO - it is how many people feel
some sort of deep psychological need to respond to it - Why

I consider myself an atheist bordrring on agnostic and I answered for $hits and Giggles. You never responded, to my thoughts, just like the "real" God ha ha...

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: AlienView
You know Man what is really curious about this post is not the hypothetical god thing - NO - it is how many people feel
some sort of deep psychological need to respond to it - Why

I consider myself an atheist bordrring on agnostic and I answered for $hits and Giggles. You never responded, to my thoughts, just like the "real" God ha ha...

f

Ha ha indeed - As usual God, existing outside of time, is one step ahead of you - He already answered you a few posts
back and allowed one of the most popular modern day Atheists do it:

“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion




- AlienView

originally posted by: AlienView
You know Man what is really curious about this post is not the hypothetical god thing - NO - it is how many people feel
some sort of deep psychological need to respond to it - Why

So keep spouting away - give me no flags or stars as obviously you do not like this subject you feel obligated to respond
to - And who knows maybe I [as a Human] will receive the all time record for the most responses on a thread with
the lowest flags and stars ? - The dubious achievemnt award for 2018.

And your intelligent response Human.............

Why? It's not often we get a chance to tell god what a dick he is.


As to your complaint about not getting any stars: a quick look at the three pages of this thread, with the vast majority of posts responding to you, and participating in YOUR thought experiment, having zero stars: would estimate that you have received 2 more stars than you have given.

Pretty sad that you seem to only care about receiving, and not giving.
Just like that god arse.

I guess one of those 1980's motivational "just believe in yourself" speeches would be redundant.

OK I tried - But as they say about the road to Hell being paved with good intentions; Therefore no more Mister nice guy:

“Satanism advocates practicing a modified form of the Golden Rule. Our interpretation of this rule is: "Do unto others as they do unto you"; because if you "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and they, in turn, treat you badly, it goes against human nature to continue to treat them with consideration. You should do unto others as you would have them do unto you, but if your courtesy is not returned, they should be treated with the wrath they deserve.”
― Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible


“To the Maker the archetype, the self-sustainer, human interaction is usually a waste of the most precious thing in his vital existance: time.”
― Anton Szandor LaVey


“Satanism has been frequently misrepresented as “devil worship”, when in fact it constitutes a clear rejection of all forms of worship as a desirable component of the personality.”
― Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible


Every religion in the world that has destroyed people is based on love.”
― Anton Szandor LaVey


“depressing. I asked myself: ‘Where is God?’ I came to detest the sanctimonious attitude of people toward violence, always saying ‘it’s God’s will’.”
― Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible


“Pious prophets have taught man to fear Satan. But what of terms like "God fearing"? If God is so merciful, why do people have to fear him? Are we to believe there is nowhere we can turn to escape fear? If you have to fear God, why not be "Satan fearing" and at least have the fun that being God fearing denies you? Without such wholesale fear religionists would have had nothing with which to wield power over their followers.”
― Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

a reply to: AlienView
War was not my intent for your species and so I tried to give you moral justifications

Correct for good, honest humans.

All world leaders only get to high places after sucking up Lucifurs smelly hole and Lucifuhrer hates humans.

This is why there is constant war against peasants.

With plenty of stupid humans to join the military complex or turn terrorist, the war machine will never stop.

Anyway, i might soon have an answer that could verify your OP. Problem is, i doubt that i will be able to post a message on this thread.

Time to see if every epileptic seizure is a natural reaction when a spirit jumps alternate realities. Seizures do not kill. But, from experience, its possible for the uncontrolled body to continue walking on curved paths and across roads.

If a daemon wants me dead when i am in a blacked-out state, then i am sure it will possess my body and nudge it into an oncoming 18-wheeler.

Possible farewell. See you guys on the other side. i am sure. Done with this freaking hell-hole of a world.

a reply to: AlienView

Good to know God's thoughts can be channeled into English.

Human beings don't believe we evolved from Nothing, however some of us do believe that an efficient cause (God) can make a Universe without a material cause (as in out of nothing). This seems counter-intuitive and quite frankly nonsensical, for if a God with no cause can make a Universe out of nothing than a Universe can exist with no efficient cause (God). If a Universe needs no material cause why then do believers demand that it MUST have an efficient cause?

A painter needs some material to use as paint, a sculptor cannot summon clay out of nothingness. So it would follow that an efficient cause (God) must also have some pre-existing material with which to do the creating.

It is not so much, God, that human beings have outgrown you or turned against you. Rather human beings have realized that there was never a you to turn against. Much like a child who realizes that there is no monster beneath his bed has not harmed anyone or turned against anyone for there was never any actual monsters.

God is an idea and takes many shapes and forms. From the benevolent, the loving, the promiscuous, the warrior, the king, the savior to the malevolent, the vengeful the spiteful and the vile. God is a personification of human character on a wide scale, a sort of embodied ideal. The idea itself is so vague and ever changing that to suggest it exists in the concrete simply seems silly.

But let's say we find you God, out there in the void. Did you have a creator? How, in your arrogance, have you cast judgment on us for disbelief when you yourself are an atheist? All powerful? Because you make a Universe and such small creatures as ourselves to live in it? Could there not be a creator for God? A God's God that has created an unraveled a trillion trillion multiverses before you even uttered "Let there be light"?

It seems to me that the issue of God is one upon which humanity will always disagree and never be satisfied precisely because it is not a being that exists in the concrete reality we inhabit but is an ever-changing enduring product of the human mind that transcends the individual level and goes back to the earliest animistic tendencies of our pre-human ancestors.

And so this idea of God talking to us now can never be the one true God, for the one true God is like the one true hero, the one true painter, the one true Father, the one true bringer of war and maker of peace. God isn't in one place or one time or one person or one faith and though volumes have been spoken by every God under the sun it is God's silence that speaks the loudest.