The Myth of The Lying President

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

A child is not lying when he states the falsity that Santa delivers gifts at Christmas. He is not intending to deceive anyone. His claim, even though it is false, is made in good faith and innocently

I think that may be the best comparison we have seen to date and you are absolutely correct.

Trump is not a liar. He is like an innocent, ignorant child that doesn't know any better.

He’s a 70 year old man, not a child. And I’m sure if you didn’t cherry pick his untruths while not touching his truths, you might find the frequency of untruths is pretty common, and you wouldn’t have to lie to yourself to support your falsities.

I am not the focus of this discussion. Trump is and I would be grateful if you would keep your logical fallacies to yourself.

Honestly, you have dug a pretty deep hole with this thread that I do not see you being able to crawl out of.

The picture you have painted of Trump is one of shear ignorance and naivety, while trying to cast doubt on him being a liar.

I'm not sure that really does Trump and favors.

You stated explicitly he is not a liar yourself. Hilarious how that works out.

Again, I'm not sure the alternative you provided is much better, if at all.

Unintended consequences?

That remains to be seen. I find that standing by results has more tangibility than feelings.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
May as well stop while you're ahead guys, Les is so smart that he refuses to admit he's wrong. He will twist and contort any and every point you make into semantics so that he never has to admit he's wrong. He will go all day, his stamina in semantic debates is pretty impressive to say the least. He will talk you in circles until you're blue in the face. Don't give him the satisfaction of his trollery.

I’m wrong. I admit it. Go on with your unchallenged thoughts; be safe your worrisome feelings.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

People make up numbers in conversation all the time. People use those same numbers to push their own view on things. Its not lying. At least, not in the sense that is being relayed here (i.e., the FBI isn't going to make him take a plea over it).

I know land developers. Maybe i've adjusted my expectations because of this. Or maybe I realize that every single POTUS ever has stood up and gave BS numbers, or at the very least numbers that were misconstrued/misrepresented to tell their narrative. Bush lied about WMD in Iraq (or so they say...there is evidence that there were old, dated WMD's). Obama lied (flat out lied) about ACA and our ability to have more affordable healthcare while using our same doctors.

If you are saying that Trump making up numbers for a rally rises anywhere near the above 2 examples, then I could not disagree more with you.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Thanks.

I did it guys! I didn't think it would be that easy.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

He was lying.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

A child is not lying when he states the falsity that Santa delivers gifts at Christmas. He is not intending to deceive anyone. His claim, even though it is false, is made in good faith and innocently

I think that may be the best comparison we have seen to date and you are absolutely correct.

Trump is not a liar. He is like an innocent, ignorant child that doesn't know any better.

He’s a 70 year old man, not a child. And I’m sure if you didn’t cherry pick his untruths while not touching his truths, you might find the frequency of untruths is pretty common, and you wouldn’t have to lie to yourself to support your falsities.

I am not the focus of this discussion. Trump is and I would be grateful if you would keep your logical fallacies to yourself.

Honestly, you have dug a pretty deep hole with this thread that I do not see you being able to crawl out of.

The picture you have painted of Trump is one of shear ignorance and naivety, while trying to cast doubt on him being a liar.

I'm not sure that really does Trump and favors.

You stated explicitly he is not a liar yourself. Hilarious how that works out.

Again, I'm not sure the alternative you provided is much better, if at all.

Unintended consequences?

That remains to be seen. I find that standing by results has more tangibility than feelings.

Remains to be seen...said the blind man.

a reply to: daskakik

It's ok, by the definition of the word (THIS one, NOT that one, it has changed you know) he wasn't intentionally lying so he's like a kid believing in Santa Claus, innocent of any wrongdoing. He'd make a great president for sure, the best even. Believe me.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I hope the president doesn't believe in Santa I fear he wouldn't be allowed in.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

DUnno man...every definition of "lie" that i find states that it is an "intentionally false statement".

To me, using the word "liar" when the person didn't intentionally mislead is, itself, a lie.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

But as the OP says, how do we know the intent of the president? We can't read his mind, so it's equally possible he's lying as he is ignorant. I'm not sure one is any better than the other to be honest.

Trump's not a liar.
And if he is, it's not a bad thing.

hahahahahahahah!

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

We made it thru 44 liars as POTUS so far. Im not sure what difference it makes.

If one of Trumps lies gets us in a war or forces me to pay for a new service under false pretense i suppose it might. But in the scale of things im just not sure its worth trying to infer his thoughts. I dont care how big his crowds are.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I guess another way to look at it is: is calling someone a liar really fair or productive when you only evidence is your imagination?

So the gist I gather is that the waters are so muddied that facts simply can't be derived from any single media. However we can all find biased sources to back up our truths.

Then what is the point of press, news or journalism?

Fact is, unless Trump admits he's lying, then it stands to reason that is not his intention. Unless folks really want another agency to be the ministry of truth, we should care. Or better yet, attempt hold journalists and news organizations to a higher standard.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Trump speaks in hyperbole like some people I know. But fake news blatantly lies with photoshop photos and fake audience and actors. That is the real lie.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Thanks.

I did it guys! I didn't think it would be that easy.

BS semantics and circular logic will only take you so far. Those that use those lame tactics in a debate think everyone else is stupid an won't notice.

It's called baffle em with Bull SH1t; the last resort for an effete intellectual snob.

Finally someone gets it, trump says or tweets a lie, the left wing media makes a huge story about it, the right wing media blames hillary and obama for what trump said.

And trump sycophants make threads to tell us how they feel about it.

Did i get it right this time.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Thanks.

I did it guys! I didn't think it would be that easy.

He's lying!

a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Or, to be a bit more succinct: