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I blame you ATS

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posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 04:43 PM
a reply to: Allaroundyou

I blame you ATS

Don't blame ATS...according to a majority of ATS members, it's Hillarys fault, or Obama.

Everything wrong in the home land is their fault. believe me!!

You're still new here, soon you will learn the rules of deflection and develop a nice stiff finger for pointing.
edit on 5-12-2017 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 04:46 PM
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Left / Right narrative.. Get past it and see it for what it is. An illusion.

Wake up!

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 04:55 PM

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: dfnj2015

What I got tired of is the far left always complaining about how they won't take our guns. It sounds like a bunch of kids in a school yard bitching about who gets to climb the ladder first. Neither party wants guns to be taken away. I am tired of the far left talking about that.

Huh? You're tired of the Left complaining about NOT taking away guns? What in the hell?

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 04:56 PM
a reply to: purplemer

You're not wrong. Sadly, this is the paradigm everything is framed in these days.

What can be done to change that? I'm all ears, and would love a solution because I know a lot of people on the left (moderate Democrats, libertarians, classical liberals) also want to do good in this country.

Surely there are many issues we can compromise/agree to disagree on. Of course there are some issues, like anything protected by the BOR (including free speech, guns, etc), that is simply not up for discussion. But there is a host of other issues (outnumbering BOR detractors 10:1) that can be negotiated and compromised on.

One major thing that comes to mind is DACA. Clearly they aren't responsible for being brought here, and most have done an outstanding job. I can't recall any instances of DACA recipients getting into major trouble (I could be wrong), and most are pursuing higher education/joining the workforce. The US has no interest in their removal, outside of maintaining legitimacy of our legal system (can't just let people selectively break laws). So a congressional action giving them amnesty/citizenship isn't at all outside the realm of possibility.

Furthermore, as far as illegal immigrants go, it also does not serve our interests to deport a majority of them. It is expensive to deport people, and we only have a limited number of enforcement agents. So it makes the most sense to target those with felonies (and certain misdemeanors). Once again, in order to protect the integrity of our legal system (enforcing all laws fairly and equally), an act of congress could legalize them or provide a clear path to legalization. This may be less than ideal, given the fact that we'd be rewarding illegal behavior, but we are far past the point of having another option. Now we must decide where enforcement priorities lay. We must also decide whether or not we want a large group of people here illegally (who will be hesitant to report crimes or assist LE) or a group of people who acknowledge making a huge mistake by breaking our laws, but nevertheless have done a good job following our laws after their arrival and have been productive members of society. It is this latter group I support giving a pathway to citizenship or residency to.

As with any crime, the nature of the offense (unlawful immigrant is a national form of trespassing, essentially), the time elapsed since the offense and whether they engaged in any criminal activity after said offense determines whether or not that person has learned their lesson and if they're likely to re-offend.

Obviously these compromises would come at an equal cost to Democrats. But we can find common ground on many issues. The question is whether Dems are ready to have a seat at the negotiating table, or continue the scorched-Earth anti-Trump policies. I personally am tired of seeing votes divided down party lines, so my preference is them taking a seat at the table.
edit on 12/5/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 04:58 PM
a reply to: Swills

The far-left, yes.

Most on the left support individual freedom and liberty.

Sadly, the fringe far-left is the loudest voice, and takes over their echo-chambers (like DU) by criticizing, shaming and attacking the loyalty/patriotism of any Democrat who doesn't either 1) shut their mouth and go along with the far-left or 2) fully and vocally support the far-left.

I personally know a lot of Democrat gun owners. They're good friends of mine, and are very reasonable people (unlike a lot on the far-left).

Consequently, the tendency for the far-left to hang out in their echo chambers while shunning opposing views is why I respect so many lefties here on ATS. The fact they aren't just hanging out in an echo chamber, and are willing to come on ATS (a largely centrist and right wing leaning group of members) demonstrates actual desire to debate/discuss issues intelligently. I respect anyone who is willing to examine their own point of view when needed, while not being afraid to post information/arguments that are unpopular.
edit on 12/5/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 05:14 PM

I know this is a Rant....but it is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite debate will be enforced.
We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.

and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 05:16 PM
a reply to: olaru12

It's the *government*, not R or D. The problem is when people blame in a partisan fashion. When you point out that some who blame certain things today missed the very same things under past admins, it isn't a partisan move as much as it is a wondering why those things are only now a problem but they weren't then.

The government has had these problems for a long, long time now and doesn't just develop them based on who gets elected.

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 05:52 PM
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Obama is a psychopathic serial mass murderous war criminal. Just like the rest of them.

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 05:56 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 05:57 PM
a reply to: olaru12 I am still new here.... Please point how new I am lol

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 06:02 PM
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss Ok well that is a bit much. But I can't exactly disagree because I am not in the know. What a wall you put up sir/ma'am.

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 06:40 PM
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Here I did a whole thing about Bush the psychopath:

And again for Obama:

These people shouldn't be loved. They're unapologetic monsters that look down on us like cattle.

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 07:07 PM
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Admittedly, it takes a while to see this pattern, but pay attention to politics enough and you will see it.

Look at Bush and watch the left be very diligent about pointing these things out. Look at Obama who carries on with the same things the left hated under Bush, and listen to the crickets. Here comes Trump, and all of a sudden here comes the left.

You can see the same pattern on the right in certain circles too.

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:50 PM
a reply to: Misterlondon

And that's exactly the mentality that has led us to where we are, not only nationally, but globally. "Gee whiz, golly gee, there's just nothing we can do about it."

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 10:03 PM

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Obama never took away your guns. Why do people believe in delusions?
Don't act stupid...Obama would have taken our guns if he possibly could have...Same with Bernie and Hillary...

posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 10:59 PM
a reply to: Iscool Ok well that is simply not true. What you said is a phobia. Simple as that. Please don't say things that are not true. Tptb may want our guns but will never attempt doing that. At least not right now.

posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 04:58 AM
a reply to: Allaroundyou

I have news for you, both parties are corrupt as hell! To believe either one of them has your best interest in mind is being completely naive. The recent sexual allegations on both sides has shown some of their true colors. Both party leaders, Pelosi & McConnell are putting party before honesty, integrity and moral obligations among their ranks.

Neither party will negotiate with each other to pass legislation which will be a benefit to all Americans. They're all influenced by corporate donors. Many go in as middle or upper class citizens than leave as multi-millionaires. To think Trump is any different than the rest of the political scum, is ignoring his numerous lies and how his tax plan is directly benefiting him and fellow business owners.

posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 06:22 AM

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: intrptr

Good idea

As Plato said, "my eyes! it is bright outside this cave."

You mean Plato didn't actually say that?

Our eyes adapt to the sunshine eventually. Hard road, most people defend their caveman politics to the death, must be dragged kicking and screaming up to the 'Light'.

Socrates said it, Plato wrote it.

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