Marine's charges set 'terrible precedent'

Originally posted by Reaganwasourgreatest
I know Ed maybe these Deaniacs would prefer to fight terrorists on American soil. I am sure they could give them a good tongue lashing and smote them with their hankerchiefs. I am a vet and these sissies would likely become praying fools like us if they were shot at.

Fool for Christ

You're quite wrong on that one. They would not fight the terrorists, they would elevate them to the status of an idol, because the poor, oppressed terrorists are merely reacting to years and years of suffering at the hands of US imperialism. It's all our fault, don't you see?

The libs would give the terrorists their own talk show, expense account, and 10 room apartment in Manhattan. All at taxpayer expense, of course.

Originally posted by jsobecky

You're quite wrong on that one. They would not fight the terrorists, they would elevate them to the status of an idol, because the poor, oppressed terrorists are merely reacting to years and years of suffering at the hands of US imperialism. It's all our fault, don't you see?

The libs would give the terrorists their own talk show, expense account, and 10 room apartment in Manhattan. All at taxpayer expense, of course.

I bet in your secret life your are a social worker huh?

Good Post!

I sure hope nothing happens to this man or his family.......


FBI probing threat against accused Marine
Web photos depict beheading, home under security watch



The FBI is investigating threats against 2nd Lt. Ilario Pantano, the Marine charged with premeditated murder in the killing of two Iraqi insurgents last April.

A website, using an address nearly identical to one launched by the officer's family, posted photographs depicting Pantano beheaded by a hooded jihadist, according to the officer's lawyer, Charles Gittins.

Other photographs on the hostile site, defendthedefender.org, have been edited to depict Pantano in an electric chair.

Pantano took the threats seriously and reported them to local law enforcement and the FBI in Wilmington, N.C., where he lives with his wife and two children, the Washington Times reported.

Retired Marines are providing a security watch at the family's home as Pantano awaits a March hearing.


SOURCE

Originally posted by devilwasp
So the US shouldnt stand up to its peers?
The charges seem a bit strange but there may be more to the story, with the information i have i would say the marine is not guilty.
BUT the US should be in the world court because its part of the world no matter what its people think.
It is one of us and should stand with us and should be judged by us the same way that they would judge us.

like hell we do...the so called world court is a political stunt pure and simple, a more appropriate term is kangaroo court make no mistake politically driven cases by politically driven individuals with an axe to grind will become the norm...as for the rest of the world their willing loss of sovreignity will come back to haunt them ..this is a whole bunch of crap by a bunch of do gooder eggheads who are good at posturing for the cameras but who are nutless and gutless in the real world, so they resort to PR stunts like this

Originally posted by marinefan
like hell we do...the so called world court is a political stunt pure and simple,

So your against world wide human rights and laws?
I dont remember the geneva convention being a "political stunt"

a more appropriate term is kangaroo court make no mistake politically driven cases by politically driven individuals with an axe to grind will become the norm.

Really?
So you think a marine or navy court is any better?
When you reach the rank of judge or jury in the USN or USMC you begin to get involved with politics its unaviodable.

..as for the rest of the world their willing loss of sovreignity will come back to haunt them

Soveringty loss?
I dont remember the world court invadeing any country forceing them to lose thier soverignty.

..this is a whole bunch of crap by a bunch of do gooder eggheads who are good at posturing for the cameras but who are nutless and gutless in the real world, so they resort to PR stunts like this

Yeah sure man......

Originally posted by devilwasp
When you reach the rank of judge or jury in the USN or USMC you begin to get involved with politics its unaviodable.

Do you actually know the jury make up is for a court-martial?

Special?

General?

Might want to look that up....

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Do you actually know the jury make up is for a court-martial?

Special?

General?

Might want to look that up....

-member juries are made up of three military judges and three select lay members affiliated with the military, trials are conducted out of public view, and trials require only a two-thirds vote for conviction.
....

Originally posted by devilwasp
-member juries are made up of three military judges and three select lay members affiliated with the military, trials are conducted out of public view, and trials require only a two-thirds vote for conviction.
....

Where did you get that from?

Here is how it works:

Military Justice 101
SUMMARY COURT-MARTIAL

A summary court-martial has jurisdiction over all personnel, except commissioned officers, warrant officer, cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipmen, charged with a UCMJ offense referred to it by the convening authority.

Composed of one commissioned officer on active duty, usually pay grade O-3 or above
The accused member is not entitled to be represented by a military attorney, but may hire a civilian lawyer at his own expense. [In rare cases, military exigencies may preclude the reasonable availability of civilian counsel.] As a matter of Air Force policy, all accused at summary courts-martial are afforded representation by military counsel.
The accused member may object to trial by summary court-martial, in which case the charges are returned to the convening authority for further action (e.g., disposition other than by court-martial or action to send the charges to a special or general court-martial)
The maximum punishment a summary court-martial may award is: confinement for 30 days, forfeiture of two-thirds pay for one month, and reduction to the lowest pay grade (E-1)
In the case where the accused is above the fourth enlisted pay grade, a summary court-martial may not adjudge confinement, hard labor without confinement, or reduction except to the next lowest pay grade
SPECIAL COURT-MARTIAL

A special court-martial has jurisdiction over all personnel charged with any UCMJ offense referred to it by the convening authority.

Composed of not less than three members, which may include commissioned officers and enlisted members (at the accused’s request)
Usually presided over by a military judge
The military judge may conduct the trial alone, if requested by the accused
A military lawyer is detailed to represent the accused member at no expense to the accused. The member may instead request that a particular military attorney, if reasonably available, represent him or her
The member may also retain a civilian attorney at no expense to the government
The prosecutor is a military lawyer (judge advocate), unless precluded by military exigencies
The maximum punishment a special court-martial may adjudge is: confinement for six months, forfeiture of two-thirds pay for six months, reduction to the lowest pay grade (E-1), and a bad conduct discharge
GENERAL COURT-MARTIAL

A general court-martial has jurisdiction over all personnel charged with any UCMJ offense referred to it by the convening authority.

Unless the accused waives this right, no charge may be referred to a general court-martial until a thorough and impartial investigation into the basis for the charge has been made. This pretrial proceeding is known as an "Article 32" investigation or preliminary hearing and essentially serves the equivalent function of a grand jury hearing in civilian jurisdictions
Composed of a military judge and not less than five members, which may include commissioned officers (and enlisted members at the accused’s request)
In non-capital cases, military judges may conduct the trial alone at the accused’s request
A military lawyer is detailed to represent the accused member at no expense to the accused. The member may instead request that a particular military attorney, if reasonably available, represent him or her
The member may also retain a civilian attorney at no expense to the government
The prosecutor must be a military lawyer (judge advocate)
A general court-martial may adjudge any sentence authorized by the Manual for Courts-Martial for the offenses that the accused is found to have committed

What politics are involved in the jury selection that you alluded to?

*Added Source for copy-paste*

[edit on 7-3-2005 by dbates]

Wow, whered you get that cool?

I admit the "jury" bit was on the fringe.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by marinefan
like hell we do...the so called world court is a political stunt pure and simple,

So your against world wide human rights and laws?
I dont remember the geneva convention being a "political stunt"

a more appropriate term is kangaroo court make no mistake politically driven cases by politically driven individuals with an axe to grind will become the norm.

Really?
So you think a marine or navy court is any better?
When you reach the rank of judge or jury in the USN or USMC you begin to get involved with politics its unaviodable.

..as for the rest of the world their willing loss of sovreignity will come back to haunt them

Soveringty loss?
I dont remember the world court invadeing any country forceing them to lose thier soverignty.

..this is a whole bunch of crap by a bunch of do gooder eggheads who are good at posturing for the cameras but who are nutless and gutless in the real world, so they resort to PR stunts like this

Yeah sure man......

Worldwide human rights and laws hmm......nothing actually i just know it's a load of feel good crap that's been lapped up by gullible young ones like yourself, oh well at least you have a good excuse youre after all a liberal..and not just any lib you are the highland variety which is who are not renowned for their intellectual capacity. Hell if you believe all that world wide human right bull# no doubt you also believe that the whole oil for food scam is a CIA plot to discredit fellow worldwide human rights preacher Kofi"but not crafty"Annan.
At least he is going to be judged by his peers who will consider the case on it's merits, as opposed to a PC showtrials for the sake of gullible libs like you

as you say yeah sure man

Originally posted by COOL HAND
I wrote it up. The information presented could be easily verified.

No I mean where'd you get that info man, did you learn it or from personal knowledge?
Its VERY detailed.
I dont doubt its authenticity.

You weren't just on the fringe for the jury comment, you were wrong. Just thought I would point you in the right direction.

Yeah, I was wrong, thanks for correcting it

Originally posted by marinefan
Worldwide human rights and laws hmm......nothing actually i just know it's a load of feel good crap that's been lapped up by gullible young ones like yourself,

Okey so you want us to conduct wars without the geneva convnetion?

oh well at least you have a good excuse youre after all a liberal..and not just any lib you are the highland variety which is who are not renowned for their intellectual capacity.

Yet again you insult me, are you trying to get me to react in the same way?
Many liberals have great intelegence.....

Hell if you believe all that world wide human right bull# no doubt you also believe that the whole oil for food scam is a CIA plot to discredit fellow worldwide human rights preacher Kofi"but not crafty"Annan.

Actually I dont know what to believe since it has been twisted by every media and government agency on the planet.

At least he is going to be judged by his peers who will consider the case on it's merits, as opposed to a PC showtrials for the sake of gullible libs like you

Funny I'm not takeing the russia WMD link so that would mean im not gullable since I dont believe one mans word over another.

as you say yeah sure man

So now your copying me?



[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by devilwasp

You weren't just on the fringe for the jury comment, you were wrong. Just thought I would point you in the right direction.


Yeah, I was wrong, thanks for correcting it

Wow, I am truly impressed............Maybe there is hope for you young grasshopper.

Originally posted by edsinger
Wow, I am truly impressed............Maybe there is hope for you young grasshopper.

...The last part of this sentance made me laugh......
I wil admit I'm wrong but not that I'm defeated.

I was digusted reading the article in TIME magazine concerning Lt. Pantano.
Here's a man who leaves behind a wife and child and a successful career to answer his country's call-to-arms VOLUNTARILY, MIND YOU, and he gets brought up on charges that will destroy his life. Politics stink in a warzone. His fellow officers alluded to the fact that people have pre-conceived perceptions of how the war is being fought, and become aghast when they find out they're wrong. Damn, don't they realize that the first thing on the minds of these men is that the next traffic stop they perform may be their last? The Marine top brass better have the guts to let this one ride until it falls under the radar. And if some journalist kicks it around in the dust after its dead, Let him take point, that's where Pantano would have been.

Originally posted by nightbreid
I was digusted reading the article in TIME magazine concerning Lt. Pantano.
Here's a man who leaves behind a wife and child and a successful career to answer his country's call-to-arms VOLUNTARILY, MIND YOU, and he gets brought up on charges that will destroy his life. Politics stink in a warzone. His fellow officers alluded to the fact that people have pre-conceived perceptions of how the war is being fought, and become aghast when they find out they're wrong. Damn, don't they realize that the first thing on the minds of these men is that the next traffic stop they perform may be their last? The Marine top brass better have the guts to let this one ride until it falls under the radar. And if some journalist kicks it around in the dust after its dead, Let him take point, that's where Pantano would have been.

HERE HERE!


The point? Turdblossom's cant do that and you know it.

If this soldier violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice then he should be tried and sentenced.

Who gives a rat's butt what he gave up to go to Iraq. I sure don't, it has absolutley no bearing on the case in question.

He could have been a Nobel prizewinner and if he violates military and international law he should be punished.

Maybe he shouldn't have untied these guys. Maybe he made a mistake, thinking they might have bombs on them so he shot them.

Maybe he's a murderer who joined the Army so he can kill people legally.

We don't know.

What we do know is that is IF he violated any military law he should be punished. That's what laws are for. For all of us, no exceptions.

Originally posted by Jakomo
What we do know is that is IF he violated any military law he should be punished. That's what laws are for. For all of us, no exceptions.

The only law Pantano is facing right now is the law of politics. Iraq just held a American-inspired democratic election and Washington isn't up for an incident that'll piss on their parade. Rodney King II isn't gonna be playing in Baghdad. I hope Bush stretches this one out, I'm not his only supporter that feels this way.

I do not think the charges are merited, from what I gather, it is 2 mens word against one who was demoted the previous week by the charged.


You figure it out...

Jeez, look if the guys inocent then he has nothing to fear.
The core looks after thier own.
If he's guilty then so be it.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Jeez, look if the guys inocent then he has nothing to fear.
The core looks after thier own.
If he's guilty then so be it.

I really can't argue with that, but you have to admit the press jumped all over this and it made more splash than was merited on BOTH sides.

Politics got involved.