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Marine's charges set 'terrible precedent'

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posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Devilwasp, I really wonder if you mean that you can see no difference between a US court and a UN court IF the man was found guilty?

Personally, when the UN comes to get my guns, they will get the ammo first.....the UN and damn near any international organization like that is doomed from the start and I want no part in it...


Being from the UK, I would guess you are in the 50% that want to join the EU , am I correct?




posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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Thats funny ed. If the Bush administration made a decree to take away our weapons as in britain you would kiss his feet. Its quite clear from your posts that your mind sees one way regardless of the facts and crimes committed. You remind me of a loyal dog who only does his masters bidding regardless if evil or good.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Devilwasp, I really wonder if you mean that you can see no difference between a US court and a UN court IF the man was found guilty?

A US sentance would more lenient than a UN court since most probably they would be more hard than a US court.


Personally, when the UN comes to get my guns, they will get the ammo first.....the UN and damn near any international organization like that is doomed from the start and I want no part in it...

So you want choas?
You want us to return to a pre UN or pre league of nations diplomacy?
Frankly the UN does more than what you think it does.
Also why the hell would the UN want to go and get your guns?
Do you see them as a NWO?



Being from the UK, I would guess you are in the 50% that want to join the EU , am I correct?

Actually I have not made my mind up yet, i see the advantages and disadvantages and have yet to decide.
BUT I do believe we should put more effort and reasources into the UN, to make it better.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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Not at all, if Bush asked for my guns he would not get them willingly either,

As I have said many times, I did not like Bush at first, but I admire what he is doing.....it needs to be done...


As for the EU, I can see your dilemma, I talked with a guy from Norway and he wishes he could bring more booze back like the EU nations with no borders can do...but he also understands that the French and Germans will rule the EU so he is against it....


As for the UN? Are you kidding? What GOOD? It is damn near worthless and the little good that they do is far outweighed by the corruption and no backbone...



[edit on 13-2-2005 by edsinger]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
As for the EU, I can see your dilemma, I talked with a guy from Norway and he wishes he could bring more booze back like the EU nations with no borders can do...but he also understands that the French and Germans will rule the EU so he is against it....

Hmm I am not sure on them ruleing it, we brits would have a large say, same with luxemburg.



As for the UN? Are you kidding? What GOOD? It is damn near worthless and the little good that they do is far outweighed by the corruption and no backbone...

.....Firstly, the UN is made up of people from across the globe and is made up of countries across the globe, includeing yours which would mean you have infact called your own governemnt currupt, do you deny this?

Secondly, what about the aid efforts?Sure those people after the tsunami where getting relief solely from the US and the RN fleet there?

Thirdly, What exsactly do you want it to do to have back bone, please tell me. Do you want it to have a "dont screw with us" policy?



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Goldenshellback

What I have read on this thread and other threads, it disturbs me that you fully do not know what you believe in. Example: On one hand you support the troops, on the other directly condem the action of military operation in Iraq using Brit and American government as the problem. You have indirectly said down the chain of command is at fault of immoral status of war in the middle east (Pres to E-1).


I have had this same argument so often. You do explain it clearer than I.

How can a military person, in a war situation, perform with their utmost concentration and ability the work for which they have been trained. They are constantly hearing that their military actions are immoral and dishonorable to their country?

How can they have the belief in themselves in order to survive.
The emotion which comes with knowing they are doing a necessary and honorable action for their/our country makes them sure of themselves and proud of what they are doing. This is what our military should be.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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Tell me what it means to "support the troops", does it mean you care for thier well being?
Does it mean you care if they complete the mission?
Does it mean you care what they do or how they do it?
The right to choose what you believe in and what you dont is the basic right given to everyperson when they are born.
You can call us "traitors", "cowards" or just military haters, but we will not resort to that level to make our selves feel better.
We stand strong knowing we care about the troops well being and that they get out safely.
Since we obviosly cant stop what they want to do we might as well try and make thier lives feel better even if we hate what they have had to do.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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To support the troops....

It means do nothing and I mean NOTHING that could put them in an unnecessary harmful situation, but them being in combat and people bitching about things back home it stirs dissent and what you get is the apathy you got with the troops returning home from Vietnam.

You can believe the war was wrong, but once there, you should support them 100% and the MISSION in which they risk their life for...


As for the UN, you tell me, what Aircraft Carriers delivered food? Name me just one situation the the UN did ANYTHING of major importance without the United states carrying the majority of the load?

Let me explain something to you European Brother, in your own backyard, Bosnia flared and EUROPE and the UN stood by and did nothing, the US also stood by for a time but finally did something.

Sudan = We all have failed
Rwanda = Failure
Somalia = Failure (Here is a good example of a UN action that the US did the vast majority of the work and provided the majority of the funds.

Lets see...


First Gulf War ......hmmm 600,000 troops, and besides your country, no other even came close to holding their own...

The UN is a failure....realize it before you wear the UK uniform......you will likely be serving in the UN army....



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
It means do nothing and I mean NOTHING that could put them in an unnecessary harmful situation, but them being in combat and people bitching about things back home it stirs dissent and what you get is the apathy you got with the troops returning home from Vietnam.

Thats what you believe , but what if it differs from my opinion of what "supporting the troops" means?


You can believe the war was wrong, but once there, you should support them 100% and the MISSION in which they risk their life for...

Why?



As for the UN, you tell me, what Aircraft Carriers delivered food? Name me just one situation the the UN did ANYTHING of major importance without the United states carrying the majority of the load?

Well yet again I must point out that the UN is made up of the countries across the world and yet again i must point out that the US is one of those countries so therefore must take part, and being the largest and most able nation would lead the way.
Besides the US cant be seen to be led by anyone but its self.


Let me explain something to you European Brother, in your own backyard, Bosnia flared and EUROPE and the UN stood by and did nothing, the US also stood by for a time but finally did something.

You are no "brother" of mine, you I would doubt are no relation of mine please do not try to think so.
Also last time i checked there was an RAF helicopters in bosnia that still conduct peace keeping missions, so i doubt "europe" did nothing.


Sudan = We all have failed
Rwanda = Failure
Somalia = Failure (Here is a good example of a UN action that the US did the vast majority of the work and provided the majority of the funds.

Alll you do ed is point out several points where they have screwed up, i also refer you to the answer i gave earlier.





First Gulf War ......hmmm 600,000 troops, and besides your country, no other even came close to holding their own...

.......Really?
I do believe that is a BIT biased.


The UN is a failure....realize it before you wear the UK uniform......you will likely be serving in the UN army....

I will realise what I want to realise, you can't pursude me any diffrently.

As in anoher thread, there can be no UN army since its biggest member doesnt seem to believe in peace.
The UN has stumbled , but it has not failed.
It is not a failure until WW3 breaks out, since that was its original mission.


[edit on 13-2-2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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Look the RAF did help in Bosnia, so what you are telling me is that the US need not have been there that the Europeans could have handled that one 'in house" considering it was their own backyard?

Would you send troops if it were Mexico?


As for the Brother comment, I am of Europeans decent that is all I meant......don't be so touchy......



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Look the RAF did help in Bosnia, so what you are telling me is that the US need not have been there that the Europeans could have handled that one 'in house" considering it was their own backyard?

Also many NATO troops went in includeing UK troops not just the RAF.

Mabye, but at a greater cost of lives certantly.


Would you send troops if it were Mexico?

....Wha?
You cant just say that!
Thats just idiotic!
Come on do you know wtf is going on with bosnia?



As for the Brother comment, I am of Europeans decent that is all I meant......don't be so touchy......

You wanted independance, fine you have it. Independance in every form.
I see the US not as cousins or as brothers, please exstend the same courtousy.


[edit on 13-2-2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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I guess we are and always will be them rebellious colonists huh?


How can I say Mexico? Think about it......Could not Europe have dealt with the Bosnian situation in house? And yes I know what was going on there and I find it odd that the West came to the aid of Muslims and yet............

[edit on 13-2-2005 by edsinger]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
I guess we are and always will be them rebellious colonists huh?

No, more like the outcasts from scotland and ireland but hey no hard feelings.



How can I say Mexico? Think about it......Could not Europe have dealt with the Bosnian situation in house? And yes I know what was going on there and I find it odd that the West came to the aid of Muslims and yet............

We dont really equip for war in europe, we are quite sick of it and frankly its been fought out of us. If the younger ones want to fight go ahead blow you selves to high heaven BUT screw with us and we will get nasty.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by edsinger]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
No, more like the outcasts from scotland and ireland but hey no hard feelings.

We dont really equip for war in europe, we are quite sick of it and frankly its been fought out of us. If the younger ones want to fight go ahead blow you selves to high heaven BUT screw with us and we will get nasty.



Outcasts?
I bet you say that to the Aussies also......how Old Europe of you......but hey no hard feelings meant.....
You sound like an Englishman trapped in Scotland.....


I know you are not equiped for war, why should you be when the American taxpayer pays for Europe's defense, we did it for 50 years so why not 50 more?

As for getting nasty, no doubt, I could also say the same thing......



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
You can believe the war was wrong, but once there, you should support them 100% and the MISSION in which they risk their life for...


I disagree ed and you have forgotten the lessons of WWII. If the german soldiers and citizens would have stood up against their government instead of accepting their leaders policy as "the most grand utopia," that is "the best for Europe and the world." then 6 million Jews and over 50 million people would not have perished. If you are unable to draw a distinction here then you are sadly deluded by fantasy patriotic belief in a system that does not exist.

You are also wrongly implying that the troops morale would indeed be effected on a volunteer service. Ridiculous. Troop morale is clearly healthy as they are and will remain in the dark of what happened over the last three years and for many years to come. Many who learn the truth of their friends sacrifice shall be bitter. A drafted army, pulling those off the street who are opposed to war and sticking a gun in their hand, as compared to a volunteer - two separate mindsets as your Vietnam analogy does not apply.

Should we tell the boys who do not understand what is happening, "It is your fault, revolt!" All you can tell them is watch your arse, and your buddy's arse and get home in one piece and we are praying for you. Don't blow sunshine up their butts because most of them will find out eventually.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Outcasts?
I bet you say that to the Aussies also......how Old Europe of you

Why thanks, I do try to keep to my northern heritich.


......but hey no hard feelings meant.....
You sound like an Englishman trapped in Scotland.....

I do?
Excellent!
My plan to destroy the english football club is slowly working......**insert evil laugh***



I know you are not equiped for war, why should you be when the American taxpayer pays for Europe's defense, we did it for 50 years so why not 50 more?

Technically you didnt, otherwise the UK wouldnt have been the ASW conductors for the NATO fleet now would it?
Or the whole super sonic jet information we gave you....or the jump jet....


As for getting nasty, no doubt, I could also say the same thing......

Yeah, but you dont do it the same way as us....I dont recall shouting abuse as "messing with you".



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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You bring a good point but you missed mine, so you feel it is OK to whine and bitch about the war, and show all the death and destruction but show and tell none of the good that the troops do over there....


I am not saying to support an immoral war at all, I feel the war is the moral high ground, you might feel different and that is fine but to demoralize the troops while in harms way is wrong, draft or not...

Ask yourself do the troops believe in what they are fighting for? If they do then support them, speak your mind but support your countrymen whilst they put their lives at risk for YOU and yes fighting in Iraq now is fighting for the Americans back home even if you fail to realize it..



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
You bring a good point but you missed mine, so you feel it is OK to whine and bitch about the war, and show all the death and destruction but show and tell none of the good that the troops do over there....

Look and read....
www.abovetopsecret.com...



I am not saying to support an immoral war at all, I feel the war is the moral high ground, you might feel different and that is fine but to demoralize the troops while in harms way is wrong, draft or not...

So you want us to not show our opinions and views , the very things the troops fight and die for?


Ask yourself do the troops believe in what they are fighting for? If they do then support them, speak your mind but support your countrymen whilst they put their lives at risk for YOU and yes fighting in Iraq now is fighting for the Americans back home even if you fail to realize it..

Most probably yes, we do support them but not the war.
Not really, i dont call a man armed with an RPG dangerous to the USA or the UK i might add.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by devilwaspNot really, i dont call a man armed with an RPG dangerous to the USA or the UK i might add.


Ah but you have been deceived, it is not the man with the RPG that is the threat but the reason the man has the RPG to fight against the invaders who freed him from a pos dictator......

The threat is not the Arab nor the Muslim, it is what the fanatical Muslim preaches and the normal everyday Muslim refusing to speak out against that is the threat.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Ah but you have been deceived, it is not the man with the RPG that is the threat but the reason the man has the RPG to fight against the invaders who freed him from a pos dictator......

No that is just the reason not the threat.


The threat is not the Arab nor the Muslim, it is what the fanatical Muslim preaches and the normal everyday Muslim refusing to speak out against that is the threat.

But what if what he speaks is true?



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