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Marine's charges set 'terrible precedent'

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posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by boogyman
Its funny how not a single person here has come out condemning this Marine in this thread but the author makes a point of slandering the left for not "supporting our troops".

I said I gave my support to troops, I'm sorry if you feel offended by me not saying it, my apologies, but I dont know all the facts and cant comment on his bravery.
Marines and he's just a poor scapegoat.




posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by boogyman
By the way I as well take personal offense at the allegations that us "liberals" dont have the "gonads" to know what is in Americas best interests and spend all our time thinking up ways to backstab our troops.


You know what. Maybe there are a lot of liberals on this board who are like I used to be, who think that its cool to be a liberal because you are so open minded and tolerant, when the fact is that you have not learned, as I did about a decade ago, that it is really the left who is intolerant and close minded and that liberals, real liberals, as opposed to leftists, are just naive, as I was.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
You know what. Maybe there are a lot of liberals on this board who are like I used to be, who think that its cool to be a liberal because you are so open minded and tolerant, when the fact is that you have not learned, as I did about a decade ago, that it is really the left who is intolerant and close minded and that liberals, real liberals, as opposed to leftists, are just naive, as I was.

Fair enough grady thats your opinion , but hey man if we want to believe in this we will believe in it, you cant stop us.
One thing I have to ask is, why do I always see anti lib threads yet very few anti rep ones?



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp



When you sign up, be ready to 'fight' and not bitch about it.

I will fight and serve with every fibre of my sould and heart, or atleast try to.
I am argueing the point of what has been said and how it is wrong, this is all I can do at the moment.


Understood and I commend you for that attitude, being from the UK I would think you could see the threat building, the piper must be paid and the cost is less if paid now and not in 10 years if you catch my drift...






Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by boogyman
Its funny how not a single person here has come out condemning this Marine in this thread but the author makes a point of slandering the left for not "supporting our troops".

I said I gave my support to troops, I'm sorry if you feel offended by me not saying it, my apologies, but I dont know all the facts and cant comment on his bravery.
Marines and he's just a poor scapegoat.



He was referring to me...........



[edit on 12-2-2005 by edsinger]



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Understood and I commend you for that attitude, being from the UK I would think you could see the threat building

The only "threat" I see is iran, NK and china but the former may be just hyped and same with the middle one.



, the piper must be paid and the cost is less if paid now and not in 10 years if you catch my drift...

Indeed the piper must be paid but when you pay the piper for a job he has not done, sometimes he will not do the job, if you catch my drift......

[edit on 12-2-2005 by devilwasp]




He was referring to me...........

Yeah, but he also refered to us all, all us here are not totaly inocent of wrong doeings...he has highlighted and shown us the error of our ways....good job my friend, haveing the clarity to see it...




[edit on 12-2-2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 09:39 PM
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I am not sure what you mean by liberal, but when I think of liberal I do not think of people such as Michael Moore who is a straw man who covers the edges of 911 not the substance. I too do not like Michael Moore because he is a handservant to the NWO plans to make Americans helpless from any future government tyranny such as Stalin. In that context he wants to remove every visage of the second amendment.

If you mean "liberal," by way of velcro busybodies and crybabies who persist fundraising for irrelevant issues, I agree with your definition.

But to me first "liberal," and "liberal values," as defined in the Scowcroft Commission Report April 1983, is a good thing, as contrasted against for example then existing Soviet tyranny and its propensities. Liberal in its proper usage refers to freedom, liberty, justice for all. It refers to fairness and not to private monopolies and secret clubs who rip people off.

So I do not agree with your definition of "liberal," but I do agree with feelings of injustice about the charged Marine. Good work sir, although you may not agree with my understanding of liberal. I refer to both liberals and conservatives as loyal and good Americans in the proper usage and applied knowledge of both terms.

[edit on 12-2-2005 by SkipShipman]



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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The piper must be paid...of that we both are right...


I want you to see something,

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go here and read some of the things that people can say, now this thread is about a man who took action that killed an Iraqi or 2, but in the other thread, the man gave his own life....and yet the 'peace nicks' (not all) had the Gaul to attack his sacrifice.......



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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How many of you support our veterans? Shame you can talk the talk and find out it is all bs when you can not even help a veteran in America.
This Marine did his job, so the liberals did not have to make this choice in a war zone. We in the Armed Forces have a bond of brotherhood and women as well, to train to know our jobs well. When we go to war, we connect to accomplish our mission in the air, land, and seas. We are the best in the world, second to none. Either you support our troops, or you do not? You can not have it both ways. You do have double standards to twist to support your ideas.
Beside, you have truely have not seen what we can do when the leash holding us back is gone. Don't try to second guess the military mission, you only strain your brain figuring it out.
Good thread......................................

Golden Shellback



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by SkipShipman

If you mean "liberal," by way of velcro busybodies who are a bunch of crybabies who have fundraising organizations for irrelevant issues, I agree with your definition.


[edit on 12-2-2005 by SkipShipman]


Ok how about "left-leaning-socialist-peacenicks"





posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by SkipShipman

If you mean "liberal," by way of velcro busybodies who are a bunch of crybabies who have fundraising organizations for irrelevant issues, I agree with your definition.


[edit on 12-2-2005 by SkipShipman]


Ok how about "left-leaning-socialist-peacenicks"




Sure, but I mean to explore the range of alternative futures possible with a proper definition of the term "liberal," and "conservative." Hey, if you will, all we heard about in the State of the Union was "freedom," and "liberty." Those things in a proper definition of terms are liberal values. We might also assume that some people will experiment after we do the Thomas PM Barnett thing. When they have democracies overseas they might say "let's give those left leaning socialist peacenicks a go." If it is really a democracy that involves freedom to vote for leaders however you want. Frankly I would prefer they have some sense and choose principles contained in the United States Constitution, and Bill of Rights, that they might go for such things.

Right now in Iraq their people are choosing an Islamic State, and they want to jettison those heavy contracts that confiscated their "socialist," industries. I also assume they will jettison the law that forbids them from saving their own farm seeds. Bad as Saddam Hussein was, the creep did "bribe his people," with free medical care and education. I say "bribe," because he was a bad person and did something so called "good," like Al Capone at the soup kitchen.

On the other hand If you were sitting in a hospital dying and mortgaging your house, well you know the old "no atheists in foxholes thing," you might have a flash of light making you think just a bit "socialist." Oh no you cry, waking from the nightmare.

Face it, while being largely conservative myself, favoring less government and not changing things too quickly, I do have flashes of hope for people who are facing with huge medical bills, or for that matter facing large legal expenses possibly necessary to get that marine guy off from his charges. I do direct myself towards a modicum of "liberal," thought, while wanting to implement such things in a conservative manner. There may be more sides to political thought than anyone may at first realize even in the self directed preparations for debates and reaching for the truth of matter, whatever the issue.

For me my argument is think however you want, but come up to good things for people that "liberty and justice for all."



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 10:56 PM
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We are not so far apart.....................

I even have some liberal leanings in some area's, when I use the liberal label I am using it in the political arena sense....



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:26 AM
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Did the Iraqi's have any weapons in there hands when the Marine fired?


When Pantano ordered them to stop, they kept moving toward him,


Just wondering, did he yell the order in Arabic? If not how the heck do you expect an Iraqi to know that you are saying "Stop there!" rather than "Come here now!"



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
go here and read some of the things that people can say, now this thread is about a man who took action that killed an Iraqi or 2, but in the other thread, the man gave his own life....and yet the 'peace nicks' (not all) had the Gaul to attack his sacrifice.......

I have seen this , and have seen another marine get shot multiple times in the chest, leg, a$$cheek and pretty much all ovr his body BUT he still fought, you are picking out a small number of people who are against your soldiers for whatever reason, that is there right.
But it is not right to simply classify us in the same class.
Also the piper doesnt need to be paid here and now, he hasnt done his job yet.

Goldenshellback Please point out to me where we have dammed this man?
Tell me where I have insulted this man?
We cant judge a situation we know nothing about.
How would you feel if we judged you for getting into a hypothetical car accidient?
Porbably not very happy.


[edit on 13-2-2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Did the Iraqi's have any weapons in there hands when the Marine fired?


When Pantano ordered them to stop, they kept moving toward him,


Just wondering, did he yell the order in Arabic? If not how the heck do you expect an Iraqi to know that you are saying "Stop there!" rather than "Come here now!"


Again WAR is not a TV lawyer show. These guys were stopped by a buch of jar.s who were tearing their SUV apart. When guys with guns are around the language is pretty universal. In that situation if the "insurgents" were hostile in anyway, shoot, protect your men. The Lt most likely thought the SUV was going to be a future car bomb based on where it had just left from.

Grady, and ED I think this will turn out to be a "political" move by some liberal senator putting pressure on some like minded Jag officer.

There are too many lawyers in the military. I hope Fox picks this up.

Semper Fi......PT if you read this call me...............



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid

Originally posted by Johnny Redburn
Did the Iraqi's have any weapons in there hands when the Marine fired?


When Pantano ordered them to stop, they kept moving toward him,


Just wondering, did he yell the order in Arabic? If not how the heck do you expect an Iraqi to know that you are saying "Stop there!" rather than "Come here now!"


Again WAR is not a TV lawyer show. These guys were stopped by a buch of jar.s who were tearing their SUV apart. When guys with guns are around the language is pretty universal. In that situation if the "insurgents" were hostile in anyway, shoot, protect your men. The Lt most likely thought the SUV was going to be a future car bomb based on where it had just left from.

Grady, and ED I think this will turn out to be a "political" move by some liberal senator putting pressure on some like minded Jag officer.

There are too many lawyers in the military. I hope Fox picks this up.

Semper Fi......PT if you read this call me...............


This doesn’t really address the point I was attempted to reach DrHoracid.
Soldiers are trained to detect whether or not a target is armed, if the targets were not holding a weapon, firing on them to kill can hardly be called self-defense.

Also saying that language in that situation is 'Universal' is hardly a sufficient answer, granted there would be a heck of a lot of swearing and yelling. However the fact that the marines ordered the Iraqi's to clear out their own car for explosives after they were already in custody insinuates that the marines did not restrain the captives and were attempting to issue orders to them in a foreign tongue. So the possibility of a mix up in communication as I stated earlier could be very possible. Hardly standard procedure for US soldiers I would assume.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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I'm in agreement with Mr. Philpott (sp).

I also believe the Marine can count his lucky stars that the charges will be settled in a U.S. military court rather that the U.N.s International Criminal Court.
And to you leftists worldwide, a U.S. military court is the last place a whitewash or a railroading will occur! There's no room for weasel mouthpiece defense lawyers. Evidence is evidence!

The ICC could care less about the Marine's life being threatened, regardless whether it was in a war zone . IAW with the UNICC, the Marine should have sat down with the insurgent (sp) and reasoned out the various sorrows and feelings that have led this poor misunderstood bastard terrorist to a life of murdering innocent civilians. Perhaps the UNICC would have prefered the Marine offer up some more of his paycheck to distrubute amongst the freedom sucking leftist regimes of the world.


It is apparent that the terrorist have no regard for truths. They will offer up a white flag only to lure you to your death



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Goldenshellback Please point out to me where we have dammed this man?
Tell me where I have insulted this man?
We cant judge a situation we know nothing about.
How would you feel if we judged you for getting into a hypothetical car accidient?
Porbably not very happy.
[edit on 13-2-2005 by devilwasp]


What I have read on this thread and other threads, it disturbs me that you fully do not know what you believe in. Example: On one hand you support the troops, on the other directly condem the action of military operation in Iraq using Brit and American government as the problem. You have indirectly said down the chain of command is at fault of immoral status of war in the middle east (Pres to E-1). This include this officer who is charged that faces the death penalty. I do recall one thread, can not remember what it was called. Correct me if I am wrong, I do believe you mentioned baby killers and such towards veterans? or was it somebody else?

Golden Shellback



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Goldenshellback
What I have read on this thread and other threads, it disturbs me that you fully do not know what you believe in.

"Theres a diffrence from knowing the path, and walking the path"


Example: On one hand you support the troops, on the other directly condem the action of military operation in Iraq using Brit and American government as the problem.

I support the troops aka I dont want them killed and want them to know that I care about how they are, like every good citizen in my opinion should BUT, the action my and your goverments took in my opinion was illegal and unjust.
If you are one who thinks you cant support the troops with out supporting the mission then I am sorry I dont think like that.



You have indirectly said down the chain of command is at fault of immoral status of war in the middle east (Pres to E-1).

Firstly I have said that the GOVERNMENT aka the people in charge were wrong with thier course of action, last time i checked the comander in chief or the primeminister is not a military officer and the "chain of command" shows that for an order to be obeyed it must come down the chain of command so it must come from a military officer, you say the US pres is comander and chief which gives him command , which it does BUT all it does is give him premision to give orders to the secretary of defense to give military action.
Correct me if I am wrong.



This include this officer who is charged that faces the death penalty. I do recall one thread, can not remember what it was called. Correct me if I am wrong, I do believe you mentioned baby killers and such towards veterans? or was it somebody else?

In my opinion it does not , and that is needed.
........I would never call a vetran a baby killer, i resent that!


Originally posted by Patri0t
I also believe the Marine can count his lucky stars that the charges will be settled in a U.S. military court rather that the U.N.s International Criminal Court.

Why?
He done nothing wrong.
He defended himself.


And to you leftists worldwide, a U.S. military court is the last place a whitewash or a railroading will occur! There's no room for weasel mouthpiece defense lawyers. Evidence is evidence!

Exscuse me?
I dont see any leftist refuteing that the marine defended himself.
Second the US military court is just like the UN court, have you seen the nuremburg trials?
[wuote]
The ICC could care less about the Marine's life being threatened, regardless whether it was in a war zone

Uhh I dont think so since the UN cares for lives otherwise it wouldnt have made up the international law for human rights now would they?


. IAW with the UNICC, the Marine should have sat down with the insurgent (sp) and reasoned out the various sorrows and feelings that have led this poor misunderstood bastard terrorist to a life of murdering innocent civilians.

Okey , now are you trying to make fun of human rights or diplomacy?


Perhaps the UNICC would have prefered the Marine offer up some more of his paycheck to distrubute amongst the freedom sucking leftist regimes of the world.


....Yet again the propaganda of the left shows up the normal human mind, got to give the guy who does this some credit.


It is apparent that the terrorist have no regard for truths. They will offer up a white flag only to lure you to your death

Really, like any person would not lie, cheat , steal or kill to save himself or his team mates?
Like one man said, "if its worth fighting for , its worth fighting dirty for."
Before you guys hype this to high heavens, i am in no way shape or form or not intentioally insinuating that any service men or women are like this, i am simply pointing out the human race's will to survive.


[edit on 13-2-2005 by devilwasp]

[edit on 13-2-2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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I ask you to correct me If I was wrong on if you said baby killer towards veterans? Sorry if you read it wrong what I was trying to find out.

Golden Shellback............Fear from the deep!



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Goldenshellback
I ask you to correct me If I was wrong on if you said baby killer towards veterans? Sorry if you read it wrong what I was trying to find out.

Golden Shellback............Fear from the deep!

I did not call vetrans baby killers.



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