Why do you think it's ok to accept that women are incapable of standing up for themselves?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

But no one was victimized? He didn't take advantage of anyone by way of his position.

a reply to: Phage

I simply said his accusers said yes.

Is what he did criminally wrong?
Does not appear so.

Was it morally wrong?
Absolutely.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Is what he did criminally wrong?
Does not appear so.

1. Exposes his person, or the private parts thereof, in any public place, or in any place where there are present other persons to be offended or annoyed thereby;  or,

2. Procures, counsels, or assists any person so to expose himself or take part in any model artist exhibition, or to make any other exhibition of himself to public view, or the view of any number of persons, such as is offensive to decency, or is adapted to excite to vicious or lewd thoughts or acts, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

codes.findlaw.com...

But there's that statute of limitations thing. So, no charges. No trial.

a reply to: Phage

It was not in public and the women said yes. So not criminal.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It was not in public

Not relevant.

or in any place where there are present other persons to be offended or annoyed thereby

or to make any other exhibition of himself to public view, or the view of any number of persons, such as is offensive to decency, or is adapted to excite to vicious or lewd thoughts or acts, is guilty of a misdemeanor

So not criminal.

Easy for you to say, since there can be no trial. A prosecutor might think differently though.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: toysforadults

I know my daughter stands up for herself. My wife and I laugh when we hear her defending herself, she's definitely a force to be reckoned with! (It probably stems from our Italian blood line, lol) My son's the total opposite.

I really think it comes down to the situation they find themselves in. It's not easy to find a good paying job today. When there is a job available, the competition for that one job can be extremely competitive. When women and even men finally land that perfect job, they're afraid to make waves or complain about something if it's going to possibly cause them to lose their job. I don't think a lot of it has to do with standing up for themselves, but more with protecting their jobs so they can provide for their families. I think this is why a lot of women don't file charges for sexual harassment. They consider being smacked on the butt or improperly touched something they have to put up with in order for them to protect their job. Kind of like being between a rock and a hard place.

There's supposedly laws on the books that protect whistle-blowers. However, if you just look during the time Obama was in office, many of those whistle-blowers were charged under the Espionage Act! Workers, men and women are not truly protected as some may think.

Somewhere along the way they have become convinced that a job is more important than their self-respect. Who taught them (male or female) this principle? Who failed to teach them that if they don't respect themselves it will be a hard job to get others to show respect? Who taught them that they have to endure abuse? Who told them that they have to "put up with" unacceptable behavior?

This is the excuse I see time and time again in these situations---that they felt compelled to "put up with" abusive behavior in order to get or keep a job or social standing or ....whatever....allowing someone to abuse them was somehow a plus in their existence. That's just crazy from the git-go! It leads them into psychological invalidism, the stuff that the cults feed on.

a reply to: Phage

Sorry, you can't say yes and then claim you were offended.

Yes your honor, I did ask that man for sex and did willingly have sex with him, but I became very offended, so he should go to jail.

There is no criminal case. Not in public. They gave consent, said yes. I don't know why you want to keep up this losing argument.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Sorry, you can't say yes and then claim you were offended.

That may be arguable under California law of the time (they didn't take him seriously and there is no indication they said yes), but yes, one woman has said that she said yes. How about that phone call he made? Consented to?

Not in public.

Not relevant.

Also moot due to the statute of limitations.

a reply to: toysforadults

As a 42 year old woman, I didn't realize this was a problem. I was taught to stand up for myself and while I had four male children, I taught them to also stand up for themselves. If anything I've seen male teenagers who can't seem to stand up for themselves and girls who are over zealous about it, it's strange. I've seen more young males that are act helpless and unwilling to stand up for themselves, hell I even see men my own age act that way. If something were to happen, I am not going to wait around for some guy to come stand up for me, I'll stand up for myself as I was taught and as I taught my own kids.

a reply to: Phage

You are the one who quoted the part about being in public first.

I am unaware of any law that makes a first time lewd phone call illegal. Oh and she called him iirc, he did not call her. So since she called him, and was perfectly capable of hanging up, I would consider anything she heard by staying on the phone consenting.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You are the one who quoted the part about being in public first.

I quoted the entire paragraph originally. Here it is again.

1. Exposes his person, or the private parts thereof, in any public place, or in any place where there are present other persons to be offended or annoyed thereby;  or,

I would consider anything she heard by staying on the phone consenting.

There's that implied consent thing again. Abusers count on that one a lot. It doesn't seem to stand up.

Oh, look - here's Occam still trying to push the same old.

Occam - he asked for consent to get his dong out. The two comedians gave thumbs up. They thought he was joking. He is a comedian. He proceeded to start beating his monkey. They wanted to leave, he stopped them. A big sweaty dude masturbating in front of them.

They never consented to a big sweaty dude masturbating in front of them. And even if they did, they are able to withdraw consent and leave the scene.

The allegations are that he stopped them from leaving. There are other allegations of him trapping another female comedian in a toliet.

That is sexual assault.

I think you have some issues surrounding the concept of willing, informed consent. Be careful out there, dude.

@Phage - the thumbs up etc is from the original claims as they were made back in 2012. There is much more out there than is making the light of day so far. This has been covered by the likes of gawker - but only as rumour etc. Amazing that Louie had just completed a film including his character who is surrounded by claims of sexual misconduct. In a recent interview, he even said something like 'you never really know someone'. Well, yeah...

a reply to: MaMaa

Good for you and to your parents for giving you that information and training. From the time I started school and was exposed to "strangers" on a regular basis without some family member present, I was told what I didn't have to accept as behavior from others and how to react if presented with behavior I knew to be wrong. They were very specific that if I felt someone was attempting to violate my person I was to make as much noise as possible and defense of my person could extend to violence, as biting, scratching and gouging while screaming if a simple "No." didn't work.

I was never faced with an unwanted touching situation until I was into my teen years. Looking them straight in the eye and saying, "Back off, you cannot touch me." worked about 99% of the time. The one poor guy who didn't take me seriously regretted grabbing me about five seconds after initial contact. My older brother and his buddies had taught me well just where to place elbows and knees for maximum effect.

In addition to our kids, we've also taught numerous members of our extended family to resist being drawn in by bullies and would-be abusers; that's it is NOT arrogance to protect your self-respect.

a reply to: melatonin

I saw the article you linked. Seems like blocking the door might qualify as kidnapping.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
I had no idea ATS was so replete with (presumably) men who are afraid of women. Weird.

Just saw this thread, looking at the date and going by all the other similar threads recently, it looks to me like a lot of people just want a new place to spout their BS after /r/incels and all their related subreddits just got shut down the other day.

a reply to: Caver78


Agreed, predatory and criminal behavior is the norm. Trusting people to not exploit you in a compromised situation is a bad idea. Hotel rooms, bars, passing out drunk, etc is opening a major attack surface to the predators. I would never get intoxicated around a bunch of strangers and not expect to be robbed/kidnapped or worse.

We don't live in a safe world or a safe country. We can all refuse to be victims, and lawfully carry weapons and get appropriate training to ensure you'll use it safely and effectively when/if the time comes.

If you carry a gun + training, keep your phone in your pocket and maintain situational awareness you can interdict crime before it strikes you. When such a threat presents itself, begin putting well placed shots on target until the threat ceases.

a reply to: toysforadults

Coz of stupid movies of perceiving women as princesses etc and men the hero. They should make more movies like labrynth.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Caver78

keep your phone in your pocket and maintain situational awareness you can interdict crime before it strikes you. When such a threat presents itself, begin putting well placed shots on target until the threat ceases.

Wasn't that was what one offender claimed when he

was accused of lewdly pushing himself up against a woman!!

a reply to: eletheia


I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I find it hard to believe that any criminal would recommend their potential victims arm themselves and use deadly force to protect themselves from said criminal.

Most criminals want to see potential victims turned into actual victims - not armed citizens who refuse to become victims.

#RefuseToBeAVictim was an excellent NRA campaign a few years back.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: eletheia


I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
I find it hard to believe that any criminal would recommend their potential victims arm themselves and use deadly force to protect themselves from said criminal.
Most criminals want to see potential victims turned into actual victims - not armed citizens who refuse to become victims.
#RefuseToBeAVictim was an excellent NRA campaign a few years back.

Sorry if you misunderstood my post .... I am in the UK and we don't have a

gun culture here.

The rest of your post amused me because over here there has been a man

accused of pressing himself (with his erect penis) up against women, and

his defense was that it wasn't his penis it was his phone.