Why do you think it's ok to accept that women are incapable of standing up for themselves?

a reply to: toysforadults

You could change every word that says "woman" in your post to "man or woman" and it would be a much more apt description.

And I don't know if you have noticed, but nobody really teaches their kids much of anything anymore. They are too busy with life to deal with the kids. Much better to stick a phone in their hand and not have to deal with them at all.

a reply to: ClovenSky
I agree with you 100%

It's not victim shaming to say if you put yourself in a risky situation you assume the risk.

Going to meet someone in a hotel room?
Yeah, business meetings are held in offices or public places. NOT rooms with beds in them. I don't care who you are or where you are this is common sense.

It doesn't excuse the other parties behavior, but there is a risk that by participating you assumed it.

The world is not, and probably will never be a safe place. If you aren't going to take responsibility for yourself and your own safety why would anyone else? The "I didn't know, I didn't anticipate, I was taken advantage of" doesn't cut it .
It's up to YOU to cover your own six. This applies to everyone.

It's ludicrous to expect that non-predatory behavior is the norm. Doesn't mean you don't get out in life and experience things, or live in fear. It just means you are responsible for you where ever you are.

Pointing the finger at the perpetrator?, well three fingers are always pointing back at you. To say that's not true is a lie you tell yourself. Just because you "should" be able to go out to diner, go jogging or to a party and assume it's a normal non-risky activity doesn't mean it actually is.

a reply to: Caver78

Thank you for that, it gives me hope.

I am not trying to downplay the true crimes of violating someone's free will, especially when it includes soul crushing violence. Like molestation against minors by their own family members. The victim in those cases will not have the maturity or awareness options to avoid those situations. That responsibility is fully on the parents. You have the parents out there that are weak willed individuals and will allow it to happen or go unreported which could possibly lead to a never ending cycle. I am also excluding muggings and abductions for the most part, acknowledging there are other cases where self responsibility and awareness will just not happen.

But there are a lot of remaining situations that could be simply avoided. By lumping this all in together does the situation a great disservice. It has confused a lot of young men to the point where they just check out of the game entirely. There is this huge wave of propaganda telling them one thing and then reality tells them something else. Be nice/accommodating or be aggressive and confident? They are told one thing but usually see the opposite getting success. Always ask for permission and make sure every step of the interaction is consented to while watching your partner get more and more turned off and cold.

I don't think females are being sold a better bill of goods in any of this either. But being a male I am probably wrong in most of my assertions trying to understand the opposite sex. For me, if I were a female, I wouldn't give the milk away for free. I would protect and cherish my most valuable assets. I would think that the long and drawn out courting period would also benefit my possibility of finding a suitable mate. When only looking at finding partner, I am trying to figure out if females had it better in the 50's.

Why aren't the motivations and desires of both sexes openly discussed? Embarrassment? Shame? It is some type of game of who will ultimately wear the pants in the relationship?

The only thing that makes sense to me is the whole process is a game of war.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: kerrichin


You make some good points there.
It's a strange cultural thing that we see strong, active women as somehow less than the ideal. Especially when historically the Celts and also Vikings were happy to let their women fight.
Blame the Romans I guess.

Good for you though. Hope your old man is proud that you have his back.

hes never been one for gender stereo types. but i never trow it in his face the fact is if he got hit in the head he would likely die ( if he has a fit he bites his tongue, once nearly completely off, and swallows it) me id have a black eye and a bad head so to e it makes sense to protect him and i believe you protect the ones you love.
i do feel for men as much as women this attitude they are meant to be protectors , be heros go off to war and die it annoys me, men have every right to to not be cannon fodder and if a womans stronger.
like you said vikings and celts were cool with it. its just life some men are weaker/shy and some women are strong/louder, nothing to be ashamed of.
also this men have to hold doors for women, ive never been like that i hild doors open for people not trying to make a huge equality statement im being polite or helpful

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: ClovenSky
I agree with you 100%

It's not victim shaming to say if you put yourself in a risky situation you assume the risk.

Going to meet someone in a hotel room?
Yeah, business meetings are held in offices or public places. NOT rooms with beds in them. I don't care who you are or where you are this is common sense.

It doesn't excuse the other parties behavior, but there is a risk that by participating you assumed it.

The world is not, and probably will never be a safe place. If you aren't going to take responsibility for yourself and your own safety why would anyone else? The "I didn't know, I didn't anticipate, I was taken advantage of" doesn't cut it .
It's up to YOU to cover your own six. This applies to everyone.

It's ludicrous to expect that non-predatory behavior is the norm. Doesn't mean you don't get out in life and experience things, or live in fear. It just means you are responsible for you where ever you are.

Pointing the finger at the perpetrator?, well three fingers are always pointing back at you. To say that's not true is a lie you tell yourself. Just because you "should" be able to go out to diner, go jogging or to a party and assume it's a normal non-risky activity doesn't mean it actually is.

this is all wel and good but women can do everything right and still get raped or attacked.

women in burkas in arab countries are still getting raped, women who use taxis, dont drink still get attacked and raped, women who dont o out partying still get raped women who dont leave the house still get raped.
what are we meant to do all live in an air tight room and never leave.
unfortunately theres to much focus on ''dont get raped'' as apposed to ''dont rape''
being aggressive is seen as manly, look at the bro culture, look at the culture of tv/movies men are taught if she says no just keep trying, just run her down until she says yes, men are taught they are entitled to a hot woman.
its sad for both sexes

a reply to: toysforadults

Who's teaching women they are incapable?

a reply to: toysforadults

Oh yeah and women aren't SUPPOSED to be weaker. It just turns out that we are physically smaller in most cases. Not exactly a choice more a fact.
Nice of some men to take advantage of that isn't it?

a reply to: kerrichin

Bad things happen to good people.
It goes back to the world is not and has never been a safe place or risk free. Life comes with no guarantees. Thats the bottom line.

You CAN do everything right and still be victimized, but that's not what I was talking about when I brought up personal responsibility. The responsibility is yours to reduce your OWN personal risk in situations. Something you ignored completely.

ClovenSky

You said it better than I could but thanks for running with it!
I don't see any of this as "a game of war" it's just humans being human. There's good messages and mentors out there same as less desirable ones.

In this day and age it doesn't matter really what the media or society says because we have an unprecedented ability to
go find out. We have books, the internet, youtube tutorials and other people to learn from. We also have the ability to be a good role model for anyone we run across, to help anyone we run across who is struggling. But you have to CHOOSE to do it.

The male/female thing is mostly a lot of smoke and mirrors. We're just humans being human and yes, some are piss poor examples of both sexes. No one gender has a lock on being "the worst". However if you play the "what if" card continually you lock yourself into never doing anything. THEN you get to make yourself a victim in your own prison.

SCREW THAT!

If I refuse to let the world dictate my personal freedoms to me WHY would I just hand them over to "What If's?!!!"

We're better than that. We're smarter and if we aren't we can fix that too. Between me and you if I'm out and wanna talk to a guy I will. If he freaks cause of what some other chick did to him in the past I'm gonna call him on it cause I'm NOT her. That's unfair to me and BS I don't accept. But if I'm genuinely not this cup of tea? Nothing ventured nothing gained, right?

If a dude wanders over and I'm not initially interested I'm flat out going to thank him for his bravery in approaching me, but let him know ALL we're gonna do is have a nice conversation. I will however probably point out the other chick who's been eyeing him up all evening and aim him that way. Cause I'm nice.


Clear communication cures most of all the mix-ups.
Retreating from situations solves nothing.

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: toysforadults

You start the thread with "Apparently.."

but do not even give one example of a woman failing to stand up for herself.

Are you sure this isn't just a thread to ruffle some feathers?

All the talk in this thread yet the most important post is ignored.

To actually know where the OP is coming from I think its reasonable to ask OP to answer this post quoted above by NarcolepticBuddha.

Without any examples its just a rant, with examples its still a rant but with examples which can lead to further discussion if there is valid reason for posting such a controversial topic.

Whats the conspiracy?

a reply to: toysforadults


Exactly

They wanted the benefits they THOUGHT would come along with such action. Not getting benefits (more money, better job, etc) doesn't mean you can suddenly change your mind.

Authority figures only apply to children, because it is assumed ANY intelligent adult would have the sense to say yes or no according to their own wishes.

Like I told my oldest daughter when she was in college:

Plan A: be assertive and stand up for yourself
Plan B: S&W in your pocket/hip/purse/shoulder-holster

Yes, my daughter carried a concealed weapon in college. Guess what? No one ever knew and she was just fine (so are her classmates). I told her some silly school rule isn't worth being a victim to a murderous shooter.

a reply to: InhaleExhale


He did. Third reply from the top, pg1

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: toysforadults

If he asks you and you say yes what the hell!!

Are the ones who said yes the ones who are talking?

Yes, they are.

Some are, in a GREAT mistake,using physicality , they are paradoxically attempting to fight men.
I guess they are mocking chivalry from feminism..VERY stupid.
I won't go into WHY it 's a mistake, only that some women are going the other way.

a reply to: geezlouise

Thank you for your reply, she and I were actually close friends and had been intimate before. This is great advice, thanks!

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

For example?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

For example?

The example is all of them. The only 2 I know of who claim they did not say yes (that I am aware of) previously have admitted they did.

The two ladies gladly joined him, and offered him some weed. He turned it down, but asked if it would be OK if he took his dick out.

Thinking he was joking (that's exactly the kind of thing this guy would say), the women gave a facetious thumbs up.

"You asked but we never said yes," tweeted the account of comedy duo Dana Min Goodman and Julia Wolov.

So which is it, did they give him a thumbs up, or did they never say yes. They have given contradictory accounts.


And we know of people who said no to him, and he did not whip it out.

And Rebecca Corry, who said no when C.K. asked if she would watch him masturbate, retweeted comedy writer Katie Rich's response, "If a woman wants to see your penis she will tell you."

Corry was filming a television pilot in 2005 when C.K. allegedly asked if she would accompany him back to his dressing room so he could masturbate in front of her. Corry reminded him that he had a daughter and pregnant wife (Alex Bailey, whom he was married to from 1995 to 2008). “His face got red, and he told me he had issues,” Corry told the Times.

Can you show me any times Louis was told no and did it anyways?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So which is it, did they give him a thumbs up, or did they never say yes. They have given contradictory accounts.

You have not provided a source. The original article (NYT) says nothing about him being given a thumbs up.

And we know of people who said no to him, and he did not whip it out.

Nor were they in his dressing room at the time.

Can you show me any times Louis was told no and did it anyways?

Implied consent then. Wonderful.

originally posted by: Phage
You have not provided a source. The original article (NYT) says nothing about him being given a thumbs up.

The original was a gawker article in 2012 which did not name Louis, but we now know was about him. We know of multiple times he was told no. Did he force it on them?

Implied consent then. Wonderful.

No, actual consent every time.

The woman alleged that he asked her repeatedly to watch him masturbate. She was in her 20s and agreed.

He's a sleezball and scumbag, but he waited until they said yes and so far no one has come forward saying he came after them if they said no.


www.newsweek.com...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No, actual consent every time.

That's one person. And she had more to say about it.

“It was something that I knew was wrong,” said the woman, who described sitting in Louis C.K.’s office while he masturbated in his desk chair during a workday, other colleagues just outside the door. “I think the big piece of why I said yes was because of the culture,” she continued. “He abused his power.” A co-worker at “The Chris Rock Show,” who also wished to remain anonymous, confirmed that the woman told him about the experience soon after it happened.

www.nytimes.com...

so far no one has come forward saying he came after them if they said no.

Well, since he's "admitted" how wrong he was, there's not much point, I guess.

a reply to: Phage

Absolutely. It was wrong, sleezy, and he was a scumbag for doing it.