Harvey Weinstein Has Me Thinking

originally posted by: MRuss
I believe most every woman has gone through similiar events but really good looking women have some of the worst stories in terms of lifetime harassment.

As NightSkyeB4Dawn posted in their wonderful write-up, this is a complete myth. While you might receive generic unwanted attention more often, "unattractive" people get assaulted and harrassed at the same rate. In fact, people with low self-esteem and disabilities (including being elderly) get sexually assaulted in disturbing numbers, because the disparity between power and helplessness is greater.
Rape in and of itself (including pedophilia) is a power dynamic and unrelated to attraction. It's an article of transference - a person who was victimised sometime in their life switching roles and victimising someone else.

So domination would be a better word. Even in ancient times - in Gudmundarsaga there's a part where it is said rape of a defeated enemy isn't considered argr (homosexual act) whereas the victim was ergi, and thus humiliated.

The saddest thing about pedophilia is that it is a vicious circle. All pedos were molested as children. The percentage who then become monsters themselves is unknown, but certainly not necessarily going to. Men are more likely to do so because the male mind has a tendency to externalise pain, whereas females have a tendency to internalise (though certainly not always the case). So abused women are more likely to self-harm, overeat, abuse drugs, though they may also hurt others. Whereas men are more likely to lash out, attack, and abuse others, though they will also often self harm. But this is why the majority of pedos are male.

Daterape on the other hand tends to do with attraction and a sense of entitlement, which is not granted. And that's really a deeper problem in society. We're raised to believe we 'deserve' a certain level of perfection. All people feel entitled in some way, but with men it's about looks.

In the media we have men who no matter how obnoxious, dumb, fat, ugly, they are, they deserve the attractive wife. This is pushed by society. The Flinstones, Simpsons, Family Guy, King of Queens, According to Jim, Big Bang Theory, Parks and Recreation, Seinfeld, That '70s Show, just off the top of my head.
Movies also push the normalising sex crimes - teen sex romps where boys violate womens privacy and film them naked (american pie), even date rape (johnny depp giving roofies in Private Resort), and the ever increasing problem of violence in porn.

And then we have the opposite ingrained behaviour for women - no matter how intelligent, successful, beautiful they are, they still need to find the rich husband to live a posh life. No looks are ever attractive enough, no expensive lifestyle is ever posh enough. Consumerism is big business.

More than anything we need to stop the technology fetish and actually interact with humans, and learn how to treat each other. Even on ATS we have had attractive avatars that received a ton of inappropriate comments - even when they were proved to have stolen a google photo. It's crazy how many people will harass someone randomly but believe it to be flirting. A lot of people don't understand that a compliment is not the same from a stranger.





a reply to: AboveBoard

it started very young before we had ANY real ability to cope or understanding of what was happening. It started at 11 with me.

It's called grooming, and the younger you start the more fragile the psyche becomes, and so the more easily manipulated/abused. Children are also more gullible and the most common way to prevent informing police is threatening the victim's parents. "If you tell anyone I will kill your parents".



a reply to: kaylaluv
They say that civilisation is a veneer removed by opportunity... and to answer your later post, yes women have their self-confidence attacked deliberately, by corporations in order to push make-up sales. A healthy, confident populace will not be as profitable.



a reply to: ladyinwaiting
Generally speaking predators will deliberately gain positions of power/respect because it enables their behaviour. Religious institutions especially because they come with a disbelief that such a noble person would do such a thing.

originally posted by: Martin75
And then from outta nowhere he throws in some crude joke about leaving the boys getting extra credit from their hot teachers alone. Um, what? That's disgusting. I didn't know what to say.

South Park did a whole episode about the double standard when older females abuse male kids.

originally posted by: CB328
So you do realize that the only real reason to have females is for sex right? Men can do everything women can do except for get pregnant, that's is really the only reason we need to have a female gender at all.

Our chromosome mutated out of theirs. You would be more accurate in saying the only reason for men is procreation (genetic variability). I think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you!

Lots of panic starting to set in on some guilty conscious's (Hustler founder Larry Flynt offers $10 million for dirt leading to Trump impeachment www.foxnews.com...


Lots of people who Could be connected to a major sex ring are trying so hard to get Trump out NOW. Its starting to sound like they NEED him out NOW. He's only in office max 8 years. If your wealthy and famous its def not affecting your life. So why care so much. Bc they NEED TO. As this unravels it will be obvious who kne what was happening.. whether they touched anyone or not. We will know they didnt do anything to stop it. I can't even imagine what was happening in the late 80s before we had the internet to give everyone a voice. It was a vacuum then. It will come out soon. I'm calling suspect on anyone famous who is really trying to get Trump to leave or shut up. Especially if they are 35 and older. Makes me wonder If angelino found her kids through the ring and saved them. Who knows but she was a victim and its just odd she was ok with not blowing the lid off of this bc she actually is so much for the children rights worldwide.

originally posted by: MRuss
a reply to: angeldoll

I agree. But I've been watching some videos by Corey Feldman today. I mean, people in power will screw you when you don't do what they want.

Weinstein would call in his favors, his assistants, his cronies and ruin a person when he didn't get his own way.

You could add an s to that, *Weinstein...s* same as another poster did . They do it not only to women , but Weinsteins will attack women's chosen (or preferred) partners . In a social situation at work that kind of vindictiveness and determinedness can mean devastation for an isolated party , not usually the /a woman . In other settings it could mean even worse .

Face off molesters and molesterings in general . Learn their tactics and avoid .

I posted a goosing incident done to me in the past and I was quite shocked at that behaviour. But, I just recently watched a documentary of a famous photographer (George Zimbel) and he actually photographed men goosing each other on the streets of New York. So, now I am wondering what is/was considered physically funny no matter the body part (sexually intrustive but overlooked) and what we have today, which is no touching allowed. As pertains to this thread, what is in the mind of the doer in regards to what is going too far?

a reply to: InTheLight
Part of a another gift that Hollywood gave us. Slapstick.

More inappropriate behavior we were conditioned to accept, think is funny, and encouraged to emulate.

Now someone has accused Kevin Spacey of assault.

Well it WAS a problem.

I am not sure it is one now. The '80s were a very different time.

OP, thanks for sharing your story.





No it's still a problem! A very big one at that. And it happens to men(boys) as well, I can attest to that.

#MeToo: Social media flooded with personal stories of assault

On Monday Twitter confirmed to CNN that #MeToo had been tweeted more than a half a million times.

Link

A half million is only the tip of the iceberg. As many have said, the numbers are staggering. We have to ask ourselves, how did we allow this to remain so out of control for so long?

When we look at how galvanized people became over bathrooms, statues, kneeling, and cakes, you would think something as horrifying as sexual assault, and its affecting so many people, men, women, children, that we would have made this a dying issue long ago.

What does this say about who and what we really are as people, here in America and globally? No country, no group, holds a monopoly on this crime.

If we can stop this behavior in its tracks, maybe we will finally see that we are not just lowly serfs with no power, and no say. The numbers are staggering, but the numbers give us power, we just have to learn how to use it for our benefit.

i've been assaulted and harassed too, i just haven't been ready to go into any detail about it. and i'm not petite or particularly busty, fwtw.

a reply to: fiverx313

We are a huge group. As shocking as it is for some to find out just how prevalent sexual assault is in our global society, I think the shock level would be off the charts, if all the men that have been assaulted would speak up.

This campaign has not dropped any bombs, nor has it revealed something that no one knew. The problem is like mold. By the time it becomes obvious on the exterior of your living room wall, the interior of your house is so damaged that you usually have to gut it.

Many of us thought, "It is only me, so it must be my fault, or there is something wrong with me, why else would they have done this to me." Like the living room wall, throwing a little bleach on the problem makes it look like the problem is solved, while it continues to grow and spread in the dark.

We can fix this. We need to speak up and stand up. It is a crime. It should not be tolerated, encouraged, or ignored.

You have said all you need to say. There is no need for you to go into intimate details of the assault. This campaign is shedding light on the number of people who have been assaulted, this is a good thing. Strength can come from numbers. Victimizing people again, by making them feel that they have to open up old wounds, or have to relive their experiences, is wrong.

For this campaign to be a success, it needs to spread awareness, and hopefully stimulate conversation towards a change. It is about fixing the future not making people have to relive the past.

a reply to: MRuss

Honest question, what's worse? Unwanted advances because your beautiful or never being given the time of day because you're hideous? I'm average so I don't know either side of this coin.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: MRuss

Honest question, what's worse? Unwanted advances because your beautiful or never being given the time of day because you're hideous? I'm average so I don't know either side of this coin.

Please don't take this the wrong way, because your question is a fair and honest question, fit for our society and the way we internally think. I know you didn't ask this question of me, so please forgive me for butting in.

We think the pretty girl has the advantage but, let me ask another question.

What is worse? Getting unwanted advances just because you are considered beautiful, or only getting attention from those that are interested in you because of you, and not what you look like?

I was never considered beautiful when I was young, but I was fairly easy on the eyes. I never found unwanted advances flattering. Most people see them as intrusive, embarrassing, and depending on the circumstances, they can be insulting.

Most unwanted advances come from shallow attempts to build someone else's ego. Most unwanted advances are attacks on a persons' psyche and attempt to boast their own ego.

a reply to: MRuss

What a great post.

I grew up with a single mom from age 4 till 12. My mom was a rather attractive woman with a huge heart. She was hit on by all my male teachers, with one in particular (my gym coach) wanting to come by in the evenings to talk about me and my education. When she shot him down, he crapped on me for it.

As a man in a leadership position, it really, really pisses me off when I hear these stories. When I see men acting like pigs it makes me feel violent. We were born to live for so much more than sex and power.

My only concern is the few out there who would use an allegation to slander your name. How many folks in the last 3 days have been found guilty in the court of public opinion? When I was in highs chool a girl I knew accused someone of rape. It was all made up, and she was given counseling when her story unravelled. But the guy she accused...still carries that with him. He was victimized by her lies, and it messed up his life, too.

originally posted by: InTheLight
I posted a goosing incident done to me in the past and I was quite shocked at that behaviour. But, I just recently watched a documentary of a famous photographer (George Zimbel) and he actually photographed men goosing each other on the streets of New York. So, now I am wondering what is/was considered physically funny no matter the body part (sexually intrustive but overlooked) and what we have today, which is no touching allowed. As pertains to this thread, what is in the mind of the doer in regards to what is going too far?

If a man gooses me I may draw down and shoot him.

My son was injured in junior high, and spent a few months in a wheelchair. He gained a lot of weight due to this, and when he was back up and moving again some bullies liked to flop his man boob. Since the school did nothing, we contacted the police one time and sought sexual assault charges. It got their attention at that point, with the police telling my son to beat up kids doing it. a couple dozen boys got ass whoopings over the ensuing weeks, and would get detention after the beat down.

a reply to: geezlouise

While im not a fan of victim blaming, there is something to be said about not leaving your Lambo parked on the street in the Bronx.

My mom used to put it to my sister like this: "when you go out, you are advertising. Whether you know it/realize it or not, you are advertising. Maybe you are advertising that you are married, and you wear a wedding ring. Maybe you are advertising that you are interested in dating, so you dress and act flirty. When you wear really revealing clothing, however...what are you advertising with that"?

While it isn't a victims fault when they are victimized...there is something to be said about exercising prudent caution. I mean...i know I wouldn't think it wise to walk into a lake in Florida with raw chicken shoved into my pockets.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I gave you a star because I’m glad you brought it up again so that I could say this one thing, which I wasn’t sure if I should say or not. But now I am sure, and it’s is this:

I understand but the principal of the matter is that we should be able to jog alone, and wear whatever we want without being assaulted, and park our cars without worrying about being robbed. And while I understand that sometimes in some situations we can’t do that, so it would be smart to take precaution, I’m saying it’s still unfair and that while we take precaution in the moment we should also still be working towards reinforcing better mentalities and behaviors so that one day... we can park our cars safely.

It’s about building a better environment and saying “hey, maybe it shouldn’t be like this so maybe we should change things.”

a reply to: geezlouise

I don't disagree in the least.

It will not happen in the lifetime of any person alive today, unfortunately. Because we are asking humans to not be human.

We cannot control what someone else does. We can, however, control our own actions. Armed with this knowledge, and knowing that there are violent assholes out there, the only prudent act is to try to contain any issues by exerting the control we have over ourselves.

Freedom of speech/expression...does not mean that you are free from other peoples response to it. If i call a mans wife a fat cow, he may beat me up. And I may win a lawsuit against him for it, as it would be against the law to do so. The prudent thing is to not exercise my freedoms when not appropriate.

Does this make sense?

Actresses for decades, probably nearer a century, have experienced the casting couch dilemma, put out for producers, directors and actors keep schtum and hope you get that part or keep your hopes pinned on your acting ability and pray that those tips as waitress can pay the rent in the meanwhile.
I'm not defending this guy or the other detritus that has carried these vile acts out over the years but, the public only just getting their collective heads around this is hard to fathom.
It's not a case of I told you so, but as the link I provided shows, books, films and TV shows have covered this subject for years.
To think Weinstein is a first and isolated case is ludicrous, to think one man being exposed will put an end to the casting couch a fantasy, to think only donators to the Democratic party carry this out naive.

a reply to: geezlouise
Of course it would be nice... but you're talking idealism over realism. Crime exists because criminals and sociopathic behaviour have been selected for in the evolutionary process. Think about a zombie apocalypse - who would be likely to survive it? The nice guy, or the violent thief?
BFFT wasn't justifying crime in any way but rather pointing out that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...




a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
One of my friends was very lazy about locking her door, and never even locked car doors when we'd give her a ride. We always hounded her until one day her house got robbed. Even though no crime is the victim's fault it can be hard to sympathise... so every time she said "got broken in to" I corrected her automatically to "walked in to" until it pissed her off enough that she changed her habits.

Anyway one of the most important things we need to do is make rape a comparable sentence to violent crimes. Our last prime minister made growing pot a longer sentence than raping a child... like wtf. It'll never stop everyone but if even one rapist thinks twice because of a potential life sentence...

a reply to: Ridhya

I recently moved into a small community on the suburbs of larger communities in Central Texas. The local cops are pretty active, and pull people over a lot for breaking the standard 25 mph speed limit. But we have copious amounts of deer, and that speed limit is actually appropriate. The cops are good guys mostly, and park older cruisers in strategic locations just to be visible, albeit empty, and help control speed. Its easy to see what their goal is...saving deer, not collecting fines.

But they do some things that really piss people off, too. like if they are on patrol and see your windows cracked or rolled down at all, they will beat on your door until you wake up so that they can serve you a citation and make you roll them up. There are signs posted all over the community about the amount of break ins to cars in the area, and how serious the police take it.

It is actually official doctrine to victim blame when you do things like leave the keys in the car.

And if im being honest..."victim blaming" isn't really when you point out the blatantly naive things someone does that makes them a target. Victim blaming is when you blame them for someone elses actions. "What did you expect him to do? Look how you are dressed" is victim blaming. "Sexual predators are rampant in this city...why on Earth would you make yourself look more interesting to them" is not really the same thing.

RE: your final comment...i agree. In fact, I think prison should be a one way street. When you go in, you only leave in a coffin after you've died. This would mean that anything not violent (rape, murder, attempted murder, aggravated robbery/burglary, pedos, etc) should not be in prison for any reason. I think jailing people for non violent crimes is cruel and unusual punishment in and of itself. There are far more productive ways to serve justice to people without the state just kidnapping people for petty crime.