These are the NFL Teams Not Participating In The National Anthem

a reply to: angeldoll

Then blame the camera guys and the commentators. They don't have to show it.

Actually, they do what they are told by the network... else they get fired. Unlike the players.

They DO have to show it and talk about it or they will be fired on the spot.

a reply to: Grambler

No pun intended, but why does it have to be black and white. Just because they protest a system they perceive as being stacked against young blacks doesn't mean they also don't see the issues going on in black neighborhoods. The same neighborhoods many of them came from.

Plenty of players give their time and money to help the kids in these neighborhoods. But many of them also believe that many of these kids won't escape because the system works against them. And thus they also protest.

I'm amazed at how many of the people decrying the actions of these players are the same ones that defended the First Amendment rights of the Nazis in Charlottesville. In my mind marching through the streets of an American city with flags of a fallen traitorous nation is way more disrespectful to this country than kneeling during the national anthem.

a reply to: angeldoll

I do.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
But interrupting my relaxation with more of the same is not conducive to making me want to have such a debate,

So your stance is based on a purely selfish premise.

In addition, there can be no such debate as long as one side is insistent on removing my right to hold an opinion different from their own. That is not debate; it is tyranny. The continual protests against the results of a fair election have done exactly what I warned they would do back before January: every time I see a protest, my attention is no longer on why are they protesting, but why are they wasting my time watching their temper tantrum?

You want debate? DEBATE! You want to be ignored? DEMAND STOOPID STUFF.

TheRedneck

This has been going on for over a year with no outcries. You want to blame someone for this escalation? Lay it at the foot of the person that stirred the hornets nest. TRUMP. His unsolicited opinion on this, no need for it other than to fire up his base, is what caused this. Not the players.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Which issues? Which policies? Can you give me non-trivial examples? Where is this happening? What are the suggestions for correcting it? Who is responsible?

If you can't answer those questions specifically, then you're not protesting, you're throwing a temper fit.

Excellent point and it goes back to what I have been saying from the beginning. Instead of meeting their protest with negativity and disdain, we should be engaging these people in conversation to get the answers to those questions.

It appears very few, if any, are willing to do that. They dismiss it outright without even discussing the issue.

That's apparently what they're throwing their fit over... the National Anthem represents the country's existence, as does the flag.

Represents. It is not it's existence itself.

Toss out the anthem, America still exists.

Burn the flag, America still exists.

It appears you are doing exactly what I described. You are not interested in finding the answer to your own questions. You just want to criticize and push your disdain on to those that protest the symbols you hold dear.

a reply to: Zarniwoop

Then perhaps we should all complain to the network that it's an unnecessary distraction and nobody wants to see it.
The players should do it if they want, but why make such a big deal out of it. (Yeah, I know why, but still, we can do without it.) I really think we should complain.

Minimize it and move on.

Claims about a unified "SJW Movement" are certainly part of a charade propagated by right-wing media/entertainment and their allies.

Taking a knee is not disrespectful to anything or anyone.

Anyone who chooses to interpret such a mundane action as political ... is creating the problem for themselves.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Claims about a unified "SJW Movement" are certainly part of a charade propagated by right-wing media/entertainment and their allies.

...to marginalize the concerns of others.

If I may add to that.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Just because they protest a system they perceive as being stacked against young blacks doesn't mean they also don't see the issues going on in black neighborhoods. The same neighborhoods many of them came from.

How did they get out of those neighborhoods?

Could it be because they were able to get into college, where they could show off their talents and get a lucrative job?

Explain to me why that wouldn't work for others in that neighborhood. Explain to me the difference between a poor black inner-city neighborhood and a middle-class white suburban neighborhood. Or let me make it easy for you: CRIME and DRUGS. Who is committing the crime? Who is doing the drugs? It ain't white CEOs.

The biggest problem with cleaning up poor neighborhoods is stopping some of the residents from committing the crimes so everyone can improve their lot in life. There is no other way, but there are plenty of ways to accomplish that goal. The problem is that any time someone mentions cleaning up the crime in an area populated by a minority, others start screaming how racist that is because the criminals are a minority. So the conversation dies, and the poverty continues.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Claims about a unified "SJW Movement" are certainly part of a charade propagated by right-wing media/entertainment and their allies.

...to marginalize the concerns of others.

If I may add to that.

Very appropriate. Spot on in fact.

The problem as I see it is that when players do this, they aren't bringing attention to anything but themselves.

a reply to: angeldoll

Minimize it and move on.

The network wants ratings. They will do whatever gets ratings.

They may be myopic on this issue, though.

Time will tell. It should be interesting (not entertaining) to watch.

a reply to: intrepid

So your stance is based on a purely selfish premise.

You're damn tootin'. I get to be selfish every now and then.

This has been going on for over a year with no outcries. You want to blame someone for this escalation? Lay it at the foot of the person that stirred the hornets nest. TRUMP. His unsolicited opinion on this, no need for it other than to fire up his base, is what caused this. Not the players.

I don't believe in blaming the neighbor who called in the fire alert with arson. Kapper-whatever started this and we all tried to ignore it, but the rest of the players wouldn't let it die. Trump just pointed out what many people were already thinking.

That's another aspect of this that people need to get a grip on. Trump, Hannity, Hucklebee, O'Reilly, Limbaugh... they're not calling the shots on what the rest of us think. They're agreeing with us. Attacking them for agreeing with us is the same as attacking us, and the last time I looked, it was not considered productive to slap someone across the face if you want them to see things your way.

TheRedneck

Gladiator games became a surrogate for the pride of triumph in war and the sacrifice of fallen soldiers. Patriotism is an ancient expansion on the notion for love of clan, family, and the homeland. Diasporas and tribal migrations caused by famine, slavery, and war contrasted sharply with ancestral memories of fertile settlements and the prosperity of peace. These two needs, for war and peace were balanced by skirmishes, expansionism, and eventually, the creation of competitive sports, which had originally been designed to hone skills for hunting and war.

Sports existed as a recreational method for training for hunting, and war, even before competitive sports took on the role of replacing sacrifice as the cultural need of the people.

Fundamentally, as the NFL drifts away from it's original purpose as a patriotic surrogate for war and human sacrifice, and instead represents abolition of the nation state, solidarity, community, and peace, it begins its downward spiral as anathema to its purpose.

Rather than acting as a heat sink for the natural craving for homeland and conflict, the NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball etc., will instead become talking points for promoting fragmentation, invasion, national socialism, human sacrifice, and war.

As the masses will no longer have their televised sacrifice and expression of vicarious patriotism, they will feel compelled to seek out the real thing. Naturally, this will lead to bloody skirmishes on the streets, an uptick in foreign wars, increases in gang participation, and a complete draining of the coffers of the once vaunted masters of the arena.

Black Americans feel like they are the unfair targets of law enforcement and the judicial system across this country.

Every relevant statistic backs them up in the belief. This creates, particularly in light of the past, a very strong resolute anger, fear and yes, probably hatred for some of law enforcement and the judicial systems.

Given that, and given the fact that the media from all sides focuses on police shootings of unarmed individuals ... all of our our focus goes there ... and rightly so. When the government takes a citizen's life, that should be of continual and utmost importance and review.

The spectrum of attention needs to go to the discriminatory targeting of Black Americans that we all know is going on.

a reply to: skynet2015

Well, gosh, maybe the President should stop whining about what some NFL players do for 2 minutes at the beginning of the game then, and let's play ball!

Surely that's the point of your manifesto there ... yes?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: intrepid

So your stance is based on a purely selfish premise.

You're damn tootin'. I get to be selfish every now and then.

This has been going on for over a year with no outcries. You want to blame someone for this escalation? Lay it at the foot of the person that stirred the hornets nest. TRUMP. His unsolicited opinion on this, no need for it other than to fire up his base, is what caused this. Not the players.

I don't believe in blaming the neighbor who called in the fire alert with arson. Kapper-whatever started this and we all tried to ignore it, but the rest of the players wouldn't let it die. Trump just pointed out what many people were already thinking.

Hardly. It was barely a footnote.

That's another aspect of this that people need to get a grip on. Trump, Hannity, Hucklebee, O'Reilly, Limbaugh... they're not calling the shots on what the rest of us think. They're agreeing with us. Attacking them for agreeing with us is the same as attacking us, and the last time I looked, it was not considered productive to slap someone across the face if you want them to see things your way.

TheRedneck

Oh please. That martyr syndrome BS has run its course. If they, and you I guess, don't want criticism then they should not interject their unsolicited opinion where it's not needed. But they seem to want to continue this circle jerk. The players are attention whores? Amateurs compared to these tools.

a reply to: introvert

Excellent point and it goes back to what I have been saying from the beginning. Instead of meeting their protest with negativity and disdain, we should be engaging these people in conversation to get the answers to those questions.

I can actually agree with part of that. Yes, if someone brings up an issue, we should listen at least.

But it's not my job to stop every jack-in-the-box bouncing on the street corner to try and find out why they're bouncing. It's their job to alert me that there's a problem, and show me the problem has a reasonable solution. It's their cause, not mine. It's their place to bring me on line for that cause, not mine to spend every waking hour looking for trouble.

This stoopid we're discussing didn't inform me there was a problem that was resolvable. It showed me a bunch of rich guys didn't have the decency to do their job, nor the gratitude to be thankful they had that job.

Represents. It is not it's existence itself.

Toss out the anthem, America still exists.

Burn the flag, America still exists.

Protesting a representation is symbolically protesting existence. They chose the symbol they used. They did not protest a badge... they chose something that represents much, much more.

TheRedneck

a reply to: intrepid

Oh please. That martyr syndrome BS has run its course.

Do you really think you know my thoughts better than I do?

I guess I've been outdone on the wild statements issue...

TheRedneck