These are the NFL Teams Not Participating In The National Anthem

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: intrepid

Oh please. That martyr syndrome BS has run its course.

Do you really think you know my thoughts better than I do?

I guess I've been outdone on the wild statements issue...

TheRedneck

Nope. I inferred it from the excessive whining from the Trump crowd. Even in victory they have to complain that everyone doesn't love Herr Trump and any criticism of him is a personal attack on them. @@

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Grambler

No pun intended, but why does it have to be black and white. Just because they protest a system they perceive as being stacked against young blacks doesn't mean they also don't see the issues going on in black neighborhoods. The same neighborhoods many of them came from.

Plenty of players give their time and money to help the kids in these neighborhoods. But many of them also believe that many of these kids won't escape because the system works against them. And thus they also protest.

I'm amazed at how many of the people decrying the actions of these players are the same ones that defended the First Amendment rights of the Nazis in Charlottesville. In my mind marching through the streets of an American city with flags of a fallen traitorous nation is way more disrespectful to this country than kneeling during the national anthem.

I am not offended by the protests at all, and think trumps should not be butting his nose in this.

The first amendment issue keeps getting brought up, this is not the issue. Almost no one is suggesting it should be illegal for these people to protest, nor did I see a huge outcry that Nazis shouldn't be fired.

It doesn't have to be black and white, but when your protest starts under the assumption that police are racist and intentionally targeting unarmed blacks, it may not be the best way to foster a serious discussion.

If whites started protesting the huge amount of homicides committed by blacks, many people, myself included with suggest that there needs to be a discussion as to why that's the case, and just labeling blacks as evil or flawed would not be helpful.

Yet in this case, to question calling cops racist and targeted blacks to shoot Can get you labeled a racist.

I wish it would lead to a higher discussion of police abuse, crime and violence in inner city communities, and how to solve these issues.

But as we saw with trump on the campaign, to even discuss the amount of violence in inner city communities gets you called a racist.

Is megalomania and narcissistic personality disorder contagious?

Some Trump supporters seem to have contracted it from their idol, Mr. T.

a reply to: intrepid

I hesitate to note that they're "acting like snowflakes" ... but they're acting like snowflakes.

We can all agree that the reason for kneeling during the national anthem is bloody retarded, but it's completely legitimate to refuse to stand.

Everyone has a right to decide whether they will honor something or not.

a reply to: Grambler

I'd like to state agreement with one point you make, G: this is not a First Amendment issue.

The First only recognizes our innate human right to freedom of speech and expression; it doesn't bestow anything.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
The problem as I see it is that when players do this, they aren't bringing attention to anything but themselves.

so.....you have no problem with trump, the president of the U.S., publicly calling players that take a knee, sons-of-bitches and in turn their mothers bitches......yeah, so how would you respond to the president if he called your mother a bitch on national TV?......sounds like you would be ok with this....unless....your are just interested in calling attention to yourself.....right?

I continue to be amazed at the ... the only word I can think of is hubris, that so many are exhibiting here.

So many seem to think that the whole country shares their own political beliefs and specifically, their conniptions over these folks taking a knee to bring attention to an issue that is important to them.

The whole country doesn't agree with any of us, here.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Taking a knee is not disrespectful to anything or anyone.

Anyone who chooses to interpret such a mundane action as political ... is creating the problem for themselves.

The people that are "offended," by this we're sitting on their couch drinking burr while the National Anthem.

Or they were taking a piss, and people at the stadium were getting (you guessed it) more burr and snacks.

THE ABSOLUTE NERVE

ETA: Hubris is a good term for it

a reply to: TheRedneck

I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was pointing out the fact that those in power don't want to have the discussion that these protests are trying to bring to light. So instead of focusing on the message they're having the focus be on the protests themselves. I was saying that's why you're unaware of the message. Because they're attempting to bury it.

That said, protests are supposed to be disruptive. In the 60s, how many people do you think went home complaining about not being able to eat lunch because a bunch of black people were sitting at the lunch counter? Does the fact that people were unable to get lunch due to a protest make the message of the protesters "stoopid?"

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

I'd like to state agreement with one point you make, G: this is not a First Amendment issue.

The First only recognizes our innate human right to freedom of speech and expression; it doesn't bestow anything.

Right.

Now where I will agree with my friends on the left here is that for everyone on the right that gets upset when someone on left calls for someone to be fired,and to now call for the firing of these players is hypocritical.

And trump should focus on doing his job rather than dividing us further with this crap.

Thsi doesnt mean that I agree with the protests. I also understand people being angry about thinking this is offensive.

I just would rather the Protestors be allowed to say their peace, the public allowed to voice their opinion, and we just move on.

Let's be clear on this. This weekend's mass protest was a direct response to the Trumpy, and nothing else. This was the NFL, tossing a big FU back to Trump in response for him once again opening his mouth. And it was glorious.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: DBCowboy
The problem as I see it is that when players do this, they aren't bringing attention to anything but themselves.

so.....you have no problem with trump, the president of the U.S., publicly calling players that take a knee, sons-of-bitches and in turn their mothers bitches......yeah, so how would you respond to the president if he called your mother a bitch on national TV?......sounds like you would be ok with this....unless....your are just interested in calling attention to yourself.....right?

Oh please. The term SOB isn't literally calling their mother a b, and you know that.

My bus driver always called me a son of a gun, was he calling my parents guns?

I am not saying what trump said wasn't idiotic, but there is no need to make it something it isn't.

a reply to: Grambler

I hear you at least.

I'm not sure what we're going to "move on" to, however.

This is life. We Americans (and all humans) have disagreements about things. In our country, we're probably more contrary with each other because of the amazing freedoms that we have.

This is the life we have. The internet and cable news systems have enabled us to instantaneously communicate with each other, and in turn to have our very easily ignited passions (usually directed through primate xenophobia at "The Other") fanned into flame.

It's not going to to away though. We have to learn to deal with each other.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: DBCowboy
The problem as I see it is that when players do this, they aren't bringing attention to anything but themselves.

so.....you have no problem with trump, the president of the U.S., publicly calling players that take a knee, sons-of-bitches and in turn their mothers bitches......yeah, so how would you respond to the president if he called your mother a bitch on national TV?......sounds like you would be ok with this....unless....your are just interested in calling attention to yourself.....right?

Oh please. The term SOB isn't literally calling their mother a b, and you know that.

My bus driver always called me a son of a gun, was he calling my parents guns?

I am not saying what trump said wasn't idiotic, but there is no need to make it something it isn't.

Colin's mother felt a tad differently than you do, G.

a reply to: intrepid

Even in victory they have to complain that everyone doesn't love Herr Trump and any criticism of him is a personal attack on them.

Add in the key word you're missing and I'll agree... that word being "unwarranted." If Trump screws up, I have no problem with attacking him... I'll probably join in. But the criticisms so far are on things like "he didn't use the words I wanted," "he 's racist" (you want to talk about something that has run it's course, re-run it's course, fell to the ground, died in the dust, rotted into nothing, and anything that was left blown into oblivion by the wind...), "he colluded with Russia," "he shouldn't talk," "he should be impeached for not agreeing with me," "he shouldn't be able to do his job because a judge said so," "he's mean," ad infinitum. That's a direct attack on those who agree with him.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
That's a direct attack on those who agree with him.

TheRedneck

Man I don't know how many adjectives there are to use here. Misguided. Thin skinned. Delusional. I really could go on.

So are you saying all that stuff Obama was accused of for 8 years(and ongoing) was a personal attack on liberals?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I was pointing out the fact that those in power don't want to have the discussion that these protests are trying to bring to light. So instead of focusing on the message they're having the focus be on the protests themselves. I was saying that's why you're unaware of the message. Because they're attempting to bury it.

It would appear the players themselves are attempting to bury their message.

Right now, as we type, there is wall-to-wall news coverage of the NFL protests. The news stations are interviewing people who have watched games 20 years ago to get their take on what's going on. How many news stations would refuse to give air time to any NFL protester who wanted to speak? How about any NFL franchise owner, you know, those standing in "solidarity" with the players?

One phone call... and it's apparently too much to do for their cause.

That said, protests are supposed to be disruptive.

No, protests are supposed to be effective at accomplishing their goal. Disruption is sometimes necessary to get attention, but disruption is not the only, or even the best, tool in a protester's arsenal. If not followed up by communication, it's just being "stoopid."

Actually, there's a better word for it, but in the interest of decorum I won't refer to the rear exit orifice of the human digestive system...

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

I hear you at least.

I'm not sure what we're going to "move on" to, however.

This is life. We Americans (and all humans) have disagreements about things. In our country, we're probably more contrary with each other because of the amazing freedoms that we have.

This is the life we have. The internet and cable news systems have enabled us to instantaneously communicate with each other, and in turn to have our very easily ignited passions (usually directed through primate xenophobia at "The Other") fanned into flame.

It's not going to to away though. We have to learn to deal with each other.

Yeah I agree.

Let me be clear, although I think trumps comments here may be political beneficial in that I believe (though I could be wrong) that most people will be more angry at people protesting during the anthem, I think it is divisive and bad for the country.

I care far less about poltical victories than I do with the country doing great.

We may disagree and even get heated on ats, but at least we are having a conversation.

Now I am a firm believer in trying to argue from a factual basis, but I think we all need to do a better job hearing where those we disagree with are coming from, even if we think they are factually incorrect.

The president calling people SOBs that should be fired doesn't help.

Here is what I would have said if I was president.

"I think this is the greatest country in the world, and I think these players should respect the flag and anthem. However, this country is so great in part because we celebrate people's right to disagree and protest, even against the very system that gives them that right. I would be more than happy to have a discussion with these players in why they are protesting, and to see if we can help solve some of the issues they have"

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: DBCowboy
The problem as I see it is that when players do this, they aren't bringing attention to anything but themselves.

so.....you have no problem with trump, the president of the U.S., publicly calling players that take a knee, sons-of-bitches and in turn their mothers bitches......yeah, so how would you respond to the president if he called your mother a bitch on national TV?......sounds like you would be ok with this....unless....your are just interested in calling attention to yourself.....right?

Oh please. The term SOB isn't literally calling their mother a b, and you know that.

My bus driver always called me a son of a gun, was he calling my parents guns?

I am not saying what trump said wasn't idiotic, but there is no need to make it something it isn't.

Colin's mother felt a tad differently than you do, G.

That's her right. But again, we all know that that term is not used in the literal sense.

Or did colons mom think trump literally meant female dog with the term b****?