The 40 Lental days and the gospels

Lent STARTED IN PARADISE........

That's why we observe Lent.......Christ did this for us to FOLLOW HIS WAYS.....
bUT since MAN wants to have his cake and eat it too......he does what he wants!

Wednesdays, Fridays, Great Lent, the Apostles' Fast, the Nativity Fast, and even the additional Monday fast for monastics—are clearly prescribed in the Church's canons. However, these fasts were not instituted by the Holy Canons; they are part of Holy Tradition, which the canons codify and guard. We fast out of fidelity to the living tradition of the Church, not out of commitment to the letter of canon law.

But the days will come when the Bridegroom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast (Matt. 9:15
Fasting was the first commandment of the Old Testamnet.......which the Jews still observe....as do the Orthodox Christians..
The commandment (as I have written before in posts)was to not eat of the certain tree but of the others to eat of...this commandment was broken....so the first commandment which God gave was to Fast......as Christ did Himself.
helen

Also ....As the body needs food,
so the soul needs the study of divine Scriptures, for "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" (Matt. 4:4).
For this reason those who do not participate in this meal (liturgy) usually suffer hunger.
Hear how God threatens such hunger and places it alongside punishment and torture: "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send forth a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the word of the Lord..." (Amos 8:11).

quote//
Christ the Savior Himself stressed the great significance of the podvig of prayer and fasting when His disciples found themselves unable to cast out demons from an unfortunate boy who was possessed.

He told them clearly,"This kind (of demon) goeth not out save by prayer and fasting" (St. Matt. 17:21).
Interpreting this passage in the gospel narrative, our great patristic theologian-ascetic, the hierarch Theophan the Recluse asks, "May we think that where there is no prayer and fasting, there is a demon already?" And he replies,
"We may. Demons, when entering into a person do not always betray their entry, but hide themselves, secretly teaching their hosts every evil and to turn aside every good.
That person may be convinced that he is doing everything himself, while he is only carrying out the will of his enemy. Only take up prayer and fasting and the enemy will immediately leave and will wait elsewhere for an opportunity to return; and he really will return if prayer and fasting are soon abandoned" (Thoughts for Each Day of the Year, pp. 245-246).

Thus the Apostle Peter writes: "If when you do well and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is accepted with God.
For even here unto were ye called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that we should follow his steps" (I Pet. 2:2-21).
In precisely the same way the holy Apostle Paul says repeatedly in his epistles that all true Christians must be ascetics, and the ascetic labor of the Christian consists of crucifying himself for the sake of Christ: "They that are Christians have crucified the flesh together with the passions and lusts" (Gal. 5:24).
A favorite expression of St. Paul is that we must be crucified with Christ that we might rise with Him. He puts forth this thought in a variety of his sayings in many of his epistles.

Sorry// here is the source/
www.orthodoxinfo.com...

[edit on 5/19/2005 by helen670]

[edit on 5/19/2005 by helen670]

Originally posted by helen670Christ is Risen

Only according to the deluded who could not ven correlate his supposed rising.

Lent STARTED IN PARADISE........

It started with at Constantine's empirical wishes, and being the mighty emperor that he was, the power hungry Christians made thie rpact with the devil, and Christians to this day keep same.

That's why we observe Lent.......Christ did this for us to FOLLOW HIS WAYS.....

I am still awaiting a reasoned response to the rituals, when might I expect more than just...we do; we have; we follow?

Here is some information on lent

www.mybiblecenter.com...

What are you talking about pact with the devil?

Lent is not only done by catholics, im a methodist and we recognize lent as well as the holy sacraments.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Here is some information on lent...

Oh, it has to do with flowers? You might wish to read my otherposts on this subject to understand why flowers do not adequately address my questions.

What are you talking about pact with the devil?

I will take three seconds to state that Lent has nothing to do with God, and therefore it is of the devil, by Christian standards. How long would it take for you to be de-programmed?

Lent is not only done by catholics, im a methodist and we recognize lent as well as the holy sacraments.

Well, I am convinced by that, all Christians succumb to paganism, so it must be of God.

If you will please take the time and read it, it will explain that lent is the preparation of the easter vigil, it is also a time of reflection. it is many things and that link i gave was a decent one. Lent is 40 days long, as was jesus's venture into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil, thats why we fast(if your medically unable to fast it is not required that you do so).
I dont understand your hatred towards christians, what have we done to you? I hope you find salvation and peace in christ.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by helen670Christ is Risen

Only according to the deluded who could not ven correlate his supposed rising.

Lent STARTED IN PARADISE........

It started with at Constantine's empirical wishes, and being the mighty emperor that he was, the power hungry Christians made thie rpact with the devil, and Christians to this day keep same.

That's why we observe Lent.......Christ did this for us to FOLLOW HIS WAYS.....

I am still awaiting a reasoned response to the rituals, when might I expect more than just...we do; we have; we follow?

You know what?

You don't have to do anything that you dont want to!
and another thing.......Why do you wake up each day and live as you do .....?
answer that!
take care.....
helen...

Seems to me this thread was started by someone (part of a name) seeking to not debunk but to belittle something they do not participate in and that which they obviously disagree.

What does it matter where the observance of Lent came from or how it started?

What does it matter why some use ashes on their foreheads?

If the base belief these are based on is in question then that would certainly have been a more genuine matter.

It matters if its not alone.
Somewhere is not far off with Constantine.
Constantine was a worshiper of the sun. Lent was/is a sungod observence.
This is how lent got into the catholic church.
There was some pretty good information provided by people through this thread, its a shame that most of it got ignored so that people could argue their pride instead of looking for truth.

Somewhereinbetween

I think I may knowwhere you are going with what You are saying...
I don'y think you are renounceing Chrisans,,, You are going after there Pagan Holidays and other things they Do thats not in the Bible.
(Like Christmas) no where in the Bible does it tell us the day Christ was Born, muchless when to celebrate it. (Easter) Where does it tell us about hunting Eggs and There is hundreds more Pagan rituals that are done every day thats not in the Bible and nowhere can you find it were Christ told us to do...
Jesus could not been bore in Dec., there is to much edvances to say Different. The first thing would be that the sheepards were still out with the sheep and Iseral is much to cold in the winter to be out in the filds with the sheep.
Most likey He was born about mid September, But again Christ did not say when he was Born and that we should celebeate his Birthday.. The pagenizm of the Church has gone astray and has been for Years, but I always to the Took it leteral and thats no Holydays...

Originally posted by JoeDoaksWhat does it matter where the observance of Lent came from or how it started?

For the same reason it matters to you who or what is behind the 9/11 attack on the WTC.

So, Lent is not biblical.

It's just some made-up tradition that has no real basis in either the bible or in Christian folklore - that is, until somebody decided to add it in.

I'm not slamming anybody who chooses to celebrate Lent. I'm just pointing out how Christian rituals change over time without anything to back it up. It's hollow and pure straw unless you are a follower of whatever the "Pope d'jour" decides.

Originally posted by jfdarby
Somewhereinbetween

I think I may knowwhere you are going with what You are saying...
I don'y think you are renounceing Chrisans,,, You are going after there Pagan Holidays and other things they Do thats not in the Bible....

Exactly! I also recognize that when faced with answering to the reality of the traditions, rather than an objective analysis of why they do what they do, they find a multitude of excuses to cloud the direct questions and instead, indoctrinate their answers with the age old apologetic stance. AndI know it is necessary to explain "apologetic" for some in the sense in which it was meant...in essence; avoidance of the real issues while utilizing obfuscation in an attempt to minimize previous secluded doctrine in favour of today's.

Apologetic stance? oh, you mean we dont succomb to the oppresion of you and your like. We would have been snuffed out centuries ago if that were the case. Who really knows where the traditions come from, if your so interested perhaps you should go to seminary.

BTW your posts drip of hatred for christians like puss from a festering sore.
perhaps you are possesed?

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by JoeDoaksWhat does it matter where the observance of Lent came from or how it started?

For the same reason it matters to you who or what is behind the 9/11 attack on the WTC.

I don't think this is correct. It is not the same reason unless you believe that in the early centuries AD a group/society existed that had long term goals of manipulating humanity through subliminal messages and the use of symbology.

Whoops

From your sig you clearly and 'proudly' proclaim that you believe God said something I find no support for. I'm a Christian. I have no problem with Lent or the Easter Bunny. I fully recognize the Bunny is pagan and ritualistic but it also is just a plain fun day for children. These children don't chase for eggs because they seek to worship some kind of ghaud. They chase for eggs to get prizes or beat each other.

If whoever came up with the Easter Bunny thought it would influence people and help gain control of their lives they missed the boat.

Same with Christmas. While unarguably a merchant's dream come true it has also become a time of forgiving and inspiration, a time for many to rejoice in nothing more sublime than humanity itself

Christians participate in Lent for various reasons. By and large most I know do so as an outward statement and remembrance of Jesus' time being tempted.

To say it (Lent) is non-biblical and therefore pagan is bunk. This is like saying spires and stained glass windows are as well- so what! That kneeling to pray or wearing sack cloth or any number of other things are pagan because they are not written in the Bible are therefore pagan is just as much bunk. Every thing could be argued by someone claiming to be a purist but that changes nothing. The real purist is the person that believes in the message and is not distracted by the motes.

Christianity (as institution) has changed dramatically during the two thousand years of its existence. As mankind changes so do his institutions and his view of understanding. The message is the same, it is our way of dealing with it and participating that has changed and will continue to do so.

As to the WTC vis-a-vis Christianity? There are some similarities. I have no doubt some of the same people are involved in numerous schemes to gain not mere ascendancy but control. Does Christianity hide this people? It certainly has been used by them.

IF WTC did not happen along the 'official line' then the powers must have felt like they needed more punch to gain their goal(s).

This is fodder for anther thread.

Lent is not problematic for me. If it were taken from a pagan practice I still have no problem with it. The meaning it has for me is as stated above- an outward (public) expression of remembrance.

These (arguments about what is and what is not acceptable) are the reasons there are numerous denominations.

JoeDoaks

I could agree with you if you didnt leave out a very important part.

1.) Lent, Easter are not christian. They are catholic and were taken from babylon/harlot relgion

2.) This is the important thing...
They distract you from the days/rituals that God gave you in the bible. Passover is all about Christ. In 325 Rome called it jewish and said we will follow easter instead. How ignorant is that?
Passover is all about Christ.

Hold on a second. FOrget all of that. Forget the "This is ours , that is theirs" stuff.

WHY did God give the 7 feasts to us in the bible?
They are prophecy. Do you realize how much prophecy is in those feast days?

Passover, Unleavened bread, first fruits and pentecost have been completeed

There are 3 left that are yet to be filled. When you keep the feasts and follow those traditions GIVEN BY GOD ..then you learn Gods word by doing. You learn so much. Do you realize how much would be cleared up in this thread if we all kept those feasts?

So when you say that Easter which belongs to the harlot (search queen of heaven in your bible) is christian, and OR..that it is harmless.... you are not totally correct.

You are keeping yourself from some of Gods blessings by not keeping his word.

Interesting thread Somewhereinbetween. Your saying that Lent is unbiblical. However, according the bible, as quoted by helen here:

Originally posted by helen670
He told them clearly,"This kind (of demon) goeth not out save by prayer and fasting" (St. Matt. 17:21).

...fasting IS biblical. So how do you suppose that Christian should fast? In the manner of the jews?

[edit on 21-5-2005 by babloyi]

Originally posted by jake1997
JoeDoaks

I could agree with you if you didnt leave out a very important part.

1.) Lent, Easter are not christian. They are catholic and were taken from babylon/harlot relgion

We part company early on. Catholics are Christian. While the Catholic Church did create some parts of 'their' religion that are not Biblical (word for word) the use of Lent as I understand it does not fit that box. Abraham came from that (Babylon) region.

Lent means (generally) a time of doing without- fasting/self-denial. This is symbolic (much of religion is symbolic) of Christ's 40 days. Denial of things for the sake of one's belief that this will strengthen them by whatever means shouldn't be discouraged just because you or someone (else) can not find support for it.

You may not agree that this should be done, but to link it to a hidden pagan agenda is just bunk.

2.) This is the important thing...
They distract you from the days/rituals that God gave you in the bible. Passover is all about Christ. In 325 Rome called it jewish and said we will follow easter instead. How ignorant is that?
Passover is all about Christ.

I disagree with this as well. Passover existed long, long before Christ. Exo. 12:11 plainly states this. Long, long before Rome appeared anywhere in history.

As to feasts- that all depends on the why.

What was the requirement? Is it still viable?

Is Pharaoh still a threat to me? How about leavened bread- apart from the requirement by Moses is there a physical reason that could explain 'the why?'
(sure there is, but that isn't part of this thread)

So when you say that Easter which belongs to the harlot (search queen of heaven in your bible) is christian, and OR..that it is harmless.... you are not totally correct.

I didn't say that. I didn't say that the spring celebration (of the pagans) as postulated by the Babylonians is Easter Bunny time. That the two occur at the same time does not mean that one necessarily is a replacement for the other.

Lent fits for me. It apparently doesn't fit for you.

Passover is all about Christ? Wow! Someone forgot to tell the Jews about that, I guess. Maybe they didn't get the memo.

Sorry. I think it's time for some remedial History of Religion courses.

Yes, The Jews Did not get the message, They were out of town when Jesus was here. So as far as that go, Jesus has not come yet, They are still waitting for his first coming.
They are way behind as far as Jesus goes and that is why they are having such hard life here. If they could had seen what was going 2000 years ago, this rock would be a different place now...

Jews Did Not Get the massage when Jesus was here the First TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joe, Al

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Joe, after the passover study, take a google search on the origin of lent.