Portlandia: Portland Deletes Its Gang List for Having Too Many Blacks

a reply to: muzzleflash

I could, instead, ask how you are so insightful and yet have managed to remain in poverty. Planning for the future, and then being stable in your execution of those plans, doesn't usually yield negative results. Unless the plans are flawed.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Maybe having money immediately wasn't my objective?
What if I was content to make ends meet, keep fed and try to obtain basic necessities, and work on a much greater objective than mere dollar bills ?

Is money everything in life?
Is that the measure of my existence?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

OK, so I get that there is a mindset that says, "Today I have this or could grab this and make myself feel good." My own husband had it when I married him, and we lived through some bleak times. I had to manage our money for a while until I broke him of it.

But understanding that the mindset is there is very different from excusing it. Too many people today look at people in poverty, realize the mindset is there, and excuse it. They say things like "They can't help it."

That's crap. It can be helped. You broke it. My husband broke it.

People can break it, and our focus should be on getting people to break it, not on excusing it and enabling it because they can't help it.

I broke it because I was not stranded in a desert of opportunity. I lived in a small town, not the center of urban decay. So people who could help my condition were available for me to network with.

I don't think understanding it excuses it. You should not excuse aberrant behavior. You SHOULD understand it so you can do what it takes to fix it. Like i mentioned earlier: there has to be a reason that blacks people, a minority population, is so over represented in our prisons. And I think if you fix that, you are at least halfway to fixing the whole problem.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Look I was locked up for half a year and moved around to half a dozen facilities.
Do you really want to know why they are there?

It's because they don't give a # about you or anyone, not even themselves.
This goes for nearly everyone there - no matter what race.

The ONLY ones who seemed to be doing better turned to God and repented.
Those individuals were able to admit they were wrong and wanted to do Good instead.
Everyone else was on a downward spiral to pure Hell.

It's way more complex and nuanced than that, but that's the "gist of it".
100% choice.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That's the problem though.

Our welfare state is not designed to address the problem. It is designed to enable and excuse it.

Everything is managed for recipients. Subsidies are disbursed. Cards are automatically filled on the prescribed days like a parent handing out an allowance. Little to nothing is expected in return. The state of poverty is an excuse and more poverty is enabled through the very structure. Try to take initiative and better yourself too much and you lose all your support when often ends up being more than you can support financially. All or nothing.

I look at the way the system is structured and have to come to the conclusion that the whole thing is not intended to make people independent and break their poverty at all, but to make them kept and keep them poor and dependent.

a reply to: ketsuko

That is why i keep saying that we created this problem for ourselves.

I honestly believe that a review of laws is needed. We need to reduce the contact between LEO and the public, as contact causes friction and brings heat. There are a multitude of laws that legislate morality, and have no place in criminal court. The proof of this is the incarceration stats.

If we look back to the founders, they warned about the welfare state:

When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic. - Ben Franklin

Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people. - Oscar Wilde

Ok, so the last one isn't a founding father. But it is very relevant here.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Im not judging you. Im asking you to look at the logic you are providing here. In the context of the discussion we are having.

My assertion is that you find more minorities crossing with the law because of socio-economic conditions within their communities, conditions created by federal, state, and local policy. And that these conditions create a negative psychological reaction that creates a myopic approach to planning.

You are asserting that this is hogwash, and using yourself as an example of someone who doesn't exhibit the negative traits of poverty. Now you are telling me you chose poverty instead. Im not sure your anecdote applies in the context of this conversation.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It's their culture, plain and simple. They don't value what gets you ahead in life. Most China towns are # holes too with little opportunity but the Chinese aren't overflowing our prison systems.

My wife grew up in the poorest EU member nation. She could have sat their and cried about how unfair the world is. Instead she picked up and moved to the other side of the planet, worked her ass off and excelled in her third language. More embarrassing is she now speaks English better than many native English speakers in our inner cities.

So, excuses are lame. It's culture. It's not valuing education or hard work. If she can save up for two years to get a plane ticket to come here and figure out living arrangements and find a good job in her third language, there's literally no excuse for someone raised here to not save up a little, move to a place with more opportunity and work their way up in their native language.

Even funnier, or sadder, depending on one's opinion, is because she's technically white, BLM demands she give her hard earned money to blacks. Another example of the difference in values.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Xtrozero

Here is something that might help you understand. First, you have to understand the psychology. I've been dirt poor, and recognize everything being said in this article as true. And now that im not dirt poor, that mindset seems foreign to me.

But I know that were i dirt poor again....my mindset would change. Human psychology is predictable.

I grew up with little, but had food and a place to live. I remember wrapping tape around my tennis shoes to cover the holes etc...

I have traveled all over the world 70 plus countries and seen poverty all over the place. Much of the world lives in poverty of some kind and much of the world still keeps a good family unit together with good family values, and most of those in poverty do not commit crimes. Also the poverty in America is not comparable to the poverty in the rest of the world.

So only here in America is where poverty for blacks breed criminals at a crazy percentage of their population. I would put this all on a very bad culture that is fed by many bad influences that people see as good.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I didn't say I chose poverty, hardly.

I tolerated it temporarily as I strive for a bigger win in the end.
I have a very complex and gigantic plan. It's potential profitability far exceeds minimum wage.
Profitable economically yes, but it's much more than that, it's Spiritual Mental Social everything, huge windfall coming.
I hope at least.

If it doesn't work out I didn't lose anything.
And I won't ever have to regret not chasing my Dreams.

I'll make a second post to address your theory.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Although I agree that social dynamics do play heavily into these factors (criminality, culture, etc), we still have to understand that we have a criminal justice system because we fundamentally believe that we have a choice.

Given that no one held a gun to their head and forced them to break laws (which is a viable defense if it did happen), they gave into their base desires and chose to break laws upon their own volition, with malicious intent, knowingly doing something wrong.

I do agree that as a result of conditioning and brainwashing, for example the media saturation of violence and negative thought patterns, it can become very simple to start thinking and acting in accordance - and it does take quite a bit of will power to resist that influence.

And additionally teaching people to view the world with a victim mentality, indoctrinating and ingraining selfishness, entitlement, and hostility towards others through blame, racism, etc - it makes it even more probable that they will succumb to these forces acting upon them.

But it still is ultimately a choice they make with full knowledge.
Everyone decided how they were going to live their lives.
All evidence supports this.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Why is a minority population imprisoned more than the throngs of poor white people you mention? What is the cause for that?

The easy answer would be to say their color, but there is a lot more to it than that....

Looking at the numbers for violent crimes Blacks are 4 to 7 times higher for these than whites, so removing drugs we still have a big problem with violent crimes mainly in the black communities. That there my friend is cultural based.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ketsuko
There are a multitude of laws that legislate morality, and have no place in criminal court.

Have you ever studied Law?

ALL Law originates from the concept of legislating morality so that a fair punishment can be delivered to the offender and the victim might receive Justice based upon an impartial arbitration of the "wrongs" committed and the damage it left in it's wake.

The Dictionary of the History of Ideas published by Scribner's in 1973 defined the concept of law accordingly as: "A legal system is the most explicit, institutionalized, and complex mode of regulating human conduct. At the same time, it plays only one part in the congeries of rules which influence behavior, for social and moral rules of a less institutionalized kind are also of great importance."

This dictionary construes "Laws" as an institutional modality of regulations.
What type of regulations ? "Social and Moral".

What is "Justice"?

Justice is the legal or philosophical theory by which fairness is administered.

And what is "Morality"?

Morality (from the Latin moralis "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper.[1] Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal.[2] Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness".

So you don't think "Morality" (AKA Goodness, Rightness, Proper Behavior) should be legislated?
Than what the hell should be legislated? There's no compass to use in writing any laws at all, if "proper behavior" has no place in the process.

How do we know what is "Proper"? Well, we at our core, will think "It is Right to do such and such, and it is Wrong to do such and such", so therefore a Law might be proposed creating a system of enforcement for ensuring such Rights are incentivized while such Wrongs are prohibited at the cost of a punishment or penalty.

If "Morality" has no place in "Criminal Court", than there is NO REASON for such a Court at all.

Does anyone here think that Murder is Right? Or do we all agree it's Wrong?
What about Theft? Rape? Kidnapping? Torture?
The list goes on down to parking in places you shouldn't or littering.

Sadly there have been many people that "decriminalized" obvious "Wrongs" for some reason or another, and criminalized various "Rights" for some odd reason or another.

Just read what I posted above real slow and make sure you understand each statement clearly.
It is so critical to the Truth and will dispel the fictions often spread among people these days.

Example:
"Don't give me YOUR Morals!"

Ok than, what the hell are Police for?
Revenue generation?

Gimme a break.
Police are here to enforce Moral and Social Codes of Behavior.

We as a people elect representatives that write laws, or judges that interpret those laws and seek Justice under them, and hire executors of those laws (police, etc) to apprehend or deliver notice to violators of them - for the Pure Purpose of upholding a Moral Code of Conduct among All Peoples.

In order to do that "Morally", we follow concepts of Duty, Honor, Integrity, Dignity, Civil Rights, and pursue Liberty and Justice for ALL.

Morality is the Foundation of Civilization.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I would put this all on a very bad culture that is fed by many bad influences that people see as good.

That is certainly a big part of it.

And since we are on a conspiracy site, ill point out that the culture was fostered all along the way by people in governmental roles.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Xtrozero

Here is something that might help you understand. First, you have to understand the psychology. I've been dirt poor, and recognize everything being said in this article as true. And now that im not dirt poor, that mindset seems foreign to me.

But I know that were i dirt poor again....my mindset would change. Human psychology is predictable.

I have traveled all over the world 70 plus countries and seen poverty all over the place. Much of the world lives in poverty of some kind and much of the world still keeps a good family unit together with good family values, and most of those in poverty do not commit crimes. Also the poverty in America is not comparable to the poverty in the rest of the world.

So only here in America is where poverty for blacks breed criminals at a crazy percentage of their population. I would put this all on a very bad culture that is fed by many bad influences that people see as good.

Another good point. Only in America is poverty an excuse for smoking blunts on the front step, selling drugs on the corner, packing heat and shooting/killing a bunch of people in your area over turf wars, etc, instead of getting a frickin job and bettering your situation.

Not to bring my wife into this again but in her country we used to visit her grandparents. Want to talk about poverty, only about 10% of their village had indoor bathrooms. If you had to go, you squatted over a hole in the outhouse. We now own that house to keep it in the family. Their neighbors? Lived in a house where two walls had fallen down, a family of about seven living in a single room, huddled around a fire burning stove to keep warm in the brutal winters. No indoor bathrooms either. That situation repeats itself all across the country as well as neighboring countries. It also repeats itself across other poorer nations in areas like Asia.

But you know what. Her grandparents and people in that village are generally pretty happy. Having a good time. They don't result to gang violence and shooting one another. It's culture. Pure and simple.

originally posted by: muzzleflash

Morality is the Foundation of Civilization.

Many would use Pot as example... I say don't use it where it is illegal and you are OK. Its like drinking and driving, don't do it...Drugs are no different in don't use them where you can go to jail... or better yet move to where they are legal.

Until society changes what it sees as a norm then it is not, sorry to say for all those who get busted.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

And since we are on a conspiracy site, ill point out that the culture was fostered all along the way by people in governmental roles.

I was thinking more a long the lines of sports and music... Nothing like Snoop singing about smoking weed and drinking gin and juice while going to Fu some Bis. Now times this by a 1000 artist all doing the same and it really sets the stage for young to follow.

Conspiracy wise we can throw in Plan Parenthood or how to reduce the black population from 18% to 11% and still going down.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: muzzleflash

Morality is the Foundation of Civilization.

Many would use Pot as example... I say don't use it where it is illegal and you are OK. Its like drinking and driving, don't do it...Drugs are no different in don't use them where you can go to jail... or better yet move to where they are legal.

Until society changes what it sees as a norm then it is not, sorry to say for all those who get busted.

We theoretically can change laws that we the people view as incorrect.

I personally believe all drugs need to be legalized and regulated through proper means, and that anyone who seeks them has safe responsible access to them. This would solve a huge organized crime problem.

At the same time we can start dealing with addiction in a more scientific and ethical manner rather than merely criminalizing and punishing it. The goal is to free people of addictions rather than make them feel ashamed and hide within them. No one should have to choose between satisfying a drug addiction or being a productive member of society. At the same time, we need to aid those who want to seek help without making them afraid of coming forward.

We got a lot of work to do to fix our system.
We cannot lose Hope despite it being such a complete disaster - because in 50 or 100 years things are going to be a certain way and our actions now directly influence that. We gotta make sure things will be the best possible outcome.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I would put this all on a very bad culture that is fed by many bad influences that people see as good.

And since we are on a conspiracy site, ill point out that the culture was fostered all along the way by people in governmental roles.

I believe that's almost certainly true.
There is a lot of evidence supporting the contention that powerful players purposely designed this collapse in values and facilitated the ongoing downfall of society.