I was in Charlottesville. Trump was wrong about violence on the left

a reply to: whereislogic

Thankyou for your opinion, I am not, however, religious so the bible references are meaningless to me.

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Dragoon01

Antifa are part of the "armed reinforcements" that arrived on Saturday, after violence had already been instigated by the other side the night before. They came armed with those things BECAUSE of the violence already perpetrated.

Sorry if that wasn't clear before.

Again you are wrong here in your timeline of the events.
I am telling you that Anti-fa planned to arrive at the Saturday event LONG before anything happened on Friday. They planned to be armed and they planned to disrupt the event before anyone even knew that there was going to be a night time march on the Friday evening.

a reply to: Grambler

I went through that clip second by second, I listed time stamps on everything that happened. And all you said was "Nope your wrong"

At least try to be honest? I wrote "the cam turned and I saw a man nearly get beaten to death" That clip is crap and even if it aint, I'd doubt it's a case of remotely comparable violence.
I don't see brick filled soda cans and honestly, The neo nazis wear helmets, armour and shields. Who on Ceres cares about stones, viking LARPers obviously don't. And why should they?

At least we agree on the fishy lack of police force and I think that's the part we should aim the spot at.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Grambler

I went through that clip second by second, I listed time stamps on everything that happened. And all you said was "Nope your wrong"

At least we agree on the fishy lack of police force and I think that's the part we should aim the spot at.

Yes, I guess that is a start.

Sounds like the same alternate reality the mainstream media is pushing down our throats. Smells like propaganda.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Grambler



If I can't persuade you of all people, that both sides aren't "equal" when 300 torch-wielding Nazis surround a group 1/10th that size, unarmed and composed of a fair number of not just women, but college girls? Even after I show you video of them instigating, initiating contact, beating people with torches. When we can't even agree on what is or isn't reality on *that* scale, what hope is there?

This country is #ed and it's only going to get worse. How much worse? I don't know but I'm now a lot less optimistic than I was before August 12th, 2017.

I want to try to meet you half way here. I have watched video after video, and read exactly what trump has said.

I can say that I believe that not one good person would have been anywhere around that torch carrying crowd (except journalists, police, etc.)

You are 100% right on this.

I don't know if earlier in the day, or else where there there were more normal people there, but I didn't see any photo evidence of that.

Trump did say he saw good people there just protesting the night before, and I think he is wrong.

I can totally agree with you on this.

However, I think this is more of just a clumsy or dumb statement by Trump rather than an endorsement of white supremacy.

Here is his quote. (only linking partial but link is there)

TRUMP: Those people -- all of those people --excuse me, I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee.

...

TRUMP: Excuse me. If you take a look at some of the groups, and you see -- and you'd know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you're not -- but many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.

So this week it's Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

But they were there to protest -- excuse me, if you take a look, the night before they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.

...

TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group.

Q (Inaudible.)

TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.

You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

...

TRUMP: Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?

So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group.

...

Q Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying.

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally -- and I looked the night before -- if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people -- neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.

But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest -- because you know, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country -- a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country.

abcnews.go.com...

He condemns neo nazis and whites supremacists several times.

I do not think his statements are a defense of white supremacists. He s wrong about the night before comments, but notice he says there were people quietly protesting.

It seems to me that he didn't watch the videos, or didn't here of violence, which is all bad.

But I don't see this as an endorsement of white supremacy, just a poorly worded ramble by him.

a reply to: Kryties
Checkout the 2nd video I added to my comment and the advice from the black guy that is basically the same as Proverbs 17:14, perhaps you'll be more receptive to him rather than ending up dismissing wise counsel* in favor of brainwashing and propagandistic arguments to support organizations and people and actions suggested or promoted by certain people who do not deserve your support nor your admiration for their activism (*: because you don't like the source). When I said "dismissing wise counsel" I was also thinking about acquitting or excusing those who do dismiss this counsel on a regular basis or try to downplay the issue of bad associations by distancing the violent ones from the nonviolent ones as if them protesting alongside eachother is a trivial fact to consider.

Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits. (1 Cor. 15:33)

I loved how Trump got on TV to rant about his position on the Charlottesville tragedy and mentioned how he had a lovely phone call with the dead girl's mother. Which, of course, was another Trump lie. He does this repeatedly. You'd think by now he'd have learned that you can't be saying stuff in front of cameras that is easily verifiable. He's a pathological liar. And clearly a fool for continuing to do it and get caught.

source

originally posted by: jtma508
I loved how Trump got on TV to rant about his position on the Charlottesville tragedy and mentioned how he had a lovely phone call with the dead girl's mother. Which, of course, was another Trump lie. He does this repeatedly. You'd think by now he'd have learned that you can't be saying stuff in front of cameras that is easily verifiable. He's a pathological liar. And clearly a fool for continuing to do it and get caught.

source

Funny.

You call Trump a liar, while you yourself lie.

Trump never said he had a phone cal with the gurls mother. Show me where he said that.

This is what he did say.

Before I make a statement, I need the facts. So I don’t want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent. In fact, the young woman, who I hear is a fantastic young woman, and it was on NBC -- her mother wrote me and said through, I guess, Twitter, social media, the nicest things. And I very much appreciated that. I hear she was a fine -- really, actually, an incredible young woman. But her mother, on Twitter, thanked me for what I said.

abcnews.go.com...

So you either lied or were ignorant of what you were speaking.

And even your article doesn't claim what you are saying.

“I’m not talking to the President now, I’m sorry,” Bro said. “After what he said about my child.”

She’s referring to Trump’s news conference on Tuesday in which he backtracked his condemnation of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and the KKK from a day earlier.

So she decided not to talk to Trump after Trumps remarks that I posted (the one you claimed he said she called him where he didn't).

No where does she claim that Trump lied and she didn't thank him on twitter.

a reply to: Kryties
Did anyone catch the advertisement put out to hire actors for protests and rally events? 25$ a person. It was on
Fb

You people have no business being at NAZI and KKK rallies anyways....The Nazis and the KKK are evil hateful people.Do not egg these kind of people on or you could get killed.
Use better wisdom than this please....Also Nazis and KKK have rallies under every U.S. president since they existed.

This is not something new,stay away you are being used for votes and it is very dangerous.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Grambler

I went through that clip second by second, I listed time stamps on everything that happened. And all you said was "Nope your wrong"

At least we agree on the fishy lack of police force and I think that's the part we should aim the spot at.

Yes, I guess that is a start.

Yes because one police officer came forwarded and said they had been told to stand down. Where have we heard this before? Oh yes it was Ferguson. Plus there were advertisements by a company Asking for actors to get paid to attend rallies and protests. Then there's the statement by Soros that he wound do whatever he can to take Trump down "for the NWO".
Anyone need more evidence that much if this is a deliberate trap on behalf of TPTB and the NWO and that it's classic Hegelian "managed conflict" through both sides to use A tiny Suttons terminology.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
You people have no business being at NAZI and KKK rallies anyways....The Nazis and the KKK are evil hateful people.Do not egg these kind of people on or you could get killed.
Use better wisdom than this please....Also Nazis and KKK have rallies under every U.S. president since they existed.

This is not something new,stay away you are being used for votes and it is very dangerous.

They have "business" there if they get paid for the appearances.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
Sure sounds like someone wanted to create this situation on purpose.

So let's see, who stands to gain from this escalation:

- everyone who is getting some kind of influx of money or votes from all this (attention and admiration translating to donations, increased advertising revenue and similar ways of cashing in on attention, admiration and votes, playing it either way regarding their target audiences)

So let's follow wikipedia as to which organizations and persons other than all media (small and big) that was present were involved or played it to their advantage or gain afterwards:

...Donald Trump.
...members of Congress, from both the Democrats and Republicans parties...
activists... [and specifically their leading figures who collect the money]
...an array of "faith-based groups, civil rights organizations...
... the ecumenical and interfaith clergy group Congregate Charlottesville...
...representatives from the National Council of Churches,[48] Black Lives Matter,[49] Anti-Racist Action,[50] Antifa,[3] the Democratic Socialists of America,[51] the Workers World Party,[52] the Revolutionary Communist Party,[53] Redneck Revolt,[54] the Industrial Workers of the World,[55][56] the Metropolitan Anarchist Coordinating Council,[57] and Showing Up for Racial Justice.[50][58][59]...
...the clubs of the neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer,[20] The Right Stuff,[21] the National Policy Institute,[22] and four groups that form the Nationalist Front:[19] the neo-Confederate League of the South,[19] the Traditionalist Workers Party,[23] Vanguard America,[23] and the National Socialist Movement.[19] Other groups involved in the rally were the Ku Klux Klan,[4] the Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights,[23] the 3 Percenters,[7] Identity Evropa,[2] the Oath Keepers,[24] the American Guard,[25] the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia,[26] the New York Light Foot Militia,[27] the Virginia Minutemen Militia,[28] the Detroit Right Wings,[29] the Rise Above Movement,[30] True Cascadia,[31] and Anti-Communist Action.[25]

Prominent far-right figures in attendance included National Policy Institute Chairman Richard Spencer,[32] entertainer Baked Alaska,[32] former Libertarian Party candidate Augustus Invictus, former Klan Imperial Wizard David Duke,[33] Identity Evropa leader Nathan Damigo, Traditionalist Youth Network CEO Matthew Heimbach,[32] Rebel Media journalist Faith Goldy,[34] Right Stuff founder Mike Enoch,[32] League of the South founder Michael Hill, Right Side Broadcasting Network host Nicholas Fuentes,[35] YouTube personality James Allsup,[35] AltRight.com editor Daniel Friberg,[36] former Business Insider CTO Pax Dickinson,[37] Right Stuff blogger Johnny Monoxide,[38] Daily Stormer writer Robert "Azzmador" Ray,[39] self-described "white activist" and organizer Jason Kessler,[40] and radio host Christopher Cantwell.[41][42] Gavin McInnes, the leader of the self-described "Western chauvinist" Proud Boys group, was invited to attend but declined because of an unwillingness "to be associated with explicit neo-Nazis."[43] In June, ahead of the rally, McInnes declared that "we need to distance ourselves from them," but "after backlash to the original disavowal flared-up from Alt-Right circles, the statement was withdrawn and replaced with another distancing the Proud Boys from the event yet also encouraging those who 'feel compelled' to attend."[44]

Note the hypocrisy at the end there. His proudboys were there but McInnes conveniently not. That's probably not everyone who benefitted or tried to benefit from this event (milking it for all its worth). But a rough overview.
Source: Unite the Right rally - Wikipedia

I suggest avoiding supporting any of these clowns. Pennywise perhaps being the most dangerous or influential one. Too many names to remember anyway, ever heard of divide and conquer?

Winning the Battle for Your Mind
Just...

And start...
Searching for Friends of Peace (song)
and...
Be Wise, My Son (song)
and remember...

www.latimes.com...

First hands accounts of people that were there. I especially like the part about Redneck Revolt. What was that about only the Nazi's showing up armed? Fact. Individuals on both sides showed up armed.

I don't support the white supremacist ideology and I don't condone violence of any kind but let's not kid ourselves. There were individuals on both sides of this who were dead set on causing harm to others.

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Grimpachi

You are now the 5th person to claim there is video evidence of both sides - I keep asking someone to post it and nobody has.

POST IT PLEASE.

Evidence

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Anyone need more evidence that much if this is a deliberate trap on behalf of TPTB and the NWO and that it's classic Hegelian "managed conflict"

More evidence than a few rumors? It's quite obvious that years of neocon privatisation led to an epic reduction of public budgets, I'm not sure we'd neet to blaim Trump for that either.

But maybe we should, given the fact that his ignorant remarks mainly added insult to injury. You really think that's a coincident? Right, and everything else would be another conspiracy theory from the intercept...

“RACISM IS EVIL,” declared Donald Trump on Monday, “and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”

OK, “declared” may be too strong a word for what we heard from the president. “Stated” is perhaps a better descriptor. “Read out” might be the most accurate of all. Trump made these “additional remarks” with great reluctance and only after two days of intense criticism from both the media and senior Republicans over his original remarks blaming “many sides” for the neo-Nazi violence in Charlottesville, Virginia. The words were not his own: they were scripted by aides and delivered with the assistance of a teleprompter. The president reserved his personal, off-the-cuff ire on Monday for the black CEO of Merck, not for the white fascists of Virginia.

Much of the frenzied media coverage of what CNN dubbed “48 hours of turmoil for the Trump White House” has overlooked one rather crucial point: Trump doesn’t like being forced to denounce racism for the very simple reason that he himself is, and always has been, a racist...

theintercept.com...

I see a lot of information that the initial engagement in just about every confrontation started with the counter protesters physically trying to block the protesters from going to the place they wanted to hold their legal rally.

I wonder for any of you if you were walking down the street and I stepped in front of you and you tried to walk around me and I just kept stepping in front of you preventing your desires to walk down the street would any of you considered this a form of aggression and would it kind of trigger you?

As I have said a few times now, if people did not give these groups a reason to fight then there isn't much that they can do. Remember fighting is what they wanted and I'm thinking so did the other side.

originally posted by: Avicenne

originally posted by: Jefferton
People on both sides are violent. No one can deny that.

It doesn't mean either side is inherently evil. Anyone who gets caught up in that belief is just wrong.

And that's why I stopped coming in here. ATS has become an alt right nursery.

If you can't see or understand that white men with torches on the US soil is worrying and if you see people opposing these views as the same, well there's the problem. Dialogue is impossible.

Nazi apologist.

Wow, how old are you little boy (or little girl)? You need to look up what an ad hominem attack is. And by the way, all these damn threads..I have read maybe two thousand posts this week and have yet to see one person who sympathizes with or appoogizes for Nazis. What I do sees kids like you who are worried by white men on us soil with torches. Torches are legal you know. The other thing I see are the people with cool heads and a mind for what is best for the future of thenation being called terrorists, Nazis, fascists, racists,and a bunch of other totally stupid things that simply make the accuser look like a poorly educated immature baby all because they say very clearly that they don't support facism, Nazis, or terrorism but they do believe in their right to assemble and make fools out of themselves if they want. Then they make it clear that nowadays you can't be sure what the real story is but to put it simply, anyone who reacts to a demonstration of good or bad ideas with getting emotional and violent is a fool. And those who react like you did above are too.

There is NO alt right! All of those groups that were at this riot were leftest!! NAZI's are socialist KKK is the armed faction of the democrat party. these antifa idiots are fascists and use the name to attempt to hide their true goals. Much like the democrat party. The media in this country does not like conservatives or the republican party and will cover for all of the anarchists and the racists. They will aid these groups hide their true beginnings and lazy people will not look for themselves. If you want to get rid of alot of hate in this country get rid of the democrat party. They are the party of hate. Not the republican party.
If you don't believe me look all of this stuff yourselves. It is all readily available online. All you need is the desire to learn the truth.