I was in Charlottesville. Trump was wrong about violence on the left

a reply to: WeRpeons

If you are referencing the Polotico report where trump supossedly said "us" they published a retraction about mis quoting trump slightly.

So , we have a Guardian article from someone who was there ,
Hell , I could claim that I was there for that matter. Some glory hunters do....
Why was this person there ? - doesnt state
Was he a resident ? - seems not as it was stated he was there.not lived there , nor a resident
Is it possible he came there on "behalf" of one of the groups ?
Think folks and
Deny Ignorance

Having to choose between your biased account of what happened against the typically violent and irrational behavior of the left, I'm going with the latter.

a reply to: Grambler

Why in gods name wouldn't she be considered as being on one of the two sides?

Perhaps that is where your confusion comes from. There are more than just two "sides" on this issue.

Trump boiled it down to two sides and in doing so said there were "fine people" on the side of the WS's/Neo-Nazis.

He then had to backtrack just a touch to include another "side" that were not attached to the racists/bigots, but were there for the defense of the history/statue/whatever.

a reply to: Grambler

This is what people went insane over Trump saying.

He said just a bit more.

As we discussed on another thread, when we are discussing the people with power; the media, corporate leaders, politicians, celebrities, etc., Almost every single one of these people are absolutely freaking out at people for saying both sides are to blame.

Again, there are more than two sides but Trump boiled it down to two.

Any dissent from that opinion makes you a pariah, automatically a nazi defender.

No it doesn't, but it does make for a convenient way to play the victim.

This is Orwellian, and yet even reasonable people on here are towing that line.

Orwellian? Hardly.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I tend to be weary of people who self-appoint themselves to any position of power over other's lives. Whether it's Julian Assange playing geopolitics or armed militia people who think that they have a right to come to my town and patrol our streets.

Especially when the idiots they care to protect, beat up residents like a friggin death squad in action. Didn't matter that he was on the ground already, I'm surprised they didn't beat him to death.
Don't tease the guy in body armor with stones! They're clearly there to assemble peacefully!



I mean... what kind of militia are they? The deaf, dense and blind racoon platoon?

Anyway. Why do you folks 'need' militia in the first place? We would've seen at least 100 or 200 leos around in Germany for that parade alone, way more heavily geared up than the neo-nazis.
Violence on both sides ... right, as in "David and Goliath" without happy end and zero protection for bystanders. Thanks for the fish, you amateurs?

originally posted by: Avicenne

originally posted by: Jefferton
People on both sides are violent. No one can deny that.

It doesn't mean either side is inherently evil. Anyone who gets caught up in that belief is just wrong.

And that's why I stopped coming in here. ATS has become an alt right nursery.

If you can't see or understand that white men with torches on the US soil is worrying and if you see people opposing these views as the same, well there's the problem. Dialogue is impossible.

Nazi apologist.

Are you talking English because what i read stated People were violent on both sides?

How could that be mistaken for Nazi Sympathizing. Most of us her,e besides me, support ignoring the haters message and having them arrested promptly when they can't control their hate and they start hurting others or private property. He can't get into their hate. We have to look at it as peaceful assembly or not. Perps going to jail for a long time and murderers getting the death penalty is what is called for in most country's in the civilized world and worse in the not civilized world for these sick people.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: dfnj2015

So what you are saying is the left should just let the white supremacists do whatever they want?

I think thats the crux of what most people on the "Right" are trying to say.

"We can do what we want and don't the "Left" DARE to try and stop us otherwise we will inflict violence on them and then blame them for it".

I thought they were saying "People are free until they try to hurt me". You are sooooo missing the point aren't you?

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

No, those are Light Foot Militia but as you can see, some of them are badged III%ers. I honestly don't know how they address the overlap. I know that the III%ers and Oath Keepers are somehow aligned and IIIRC, the III%ers were founded by an Oath Keeper a couple years after the Oath Keepers were founded.

The whole "Patriot Movement" thing is very confusing, tangled web. Ostensibly the Oath Keepers are "non-partisan" but all of these groups are far-right in practice.

Personally, I've known a few militia nuts from Florida and Georgia and I wasn't impressed. At least in the case of those guys, they were just *heavily* (I mean *heavily* and I come from a family of gun nuts) armed assholes. They weren't racists though.

I tend to be weary of people who self-appoint themselves to any position of power over other's lives. Whether it's Julian Assange playing geopolitics or armed militia people who think that they have a right to come to my town and patrol our streets.

The III%ers typify that mentality, it's evident in their name, which is based on the myth that only 3% of the colonists participated in the American Revolution. The myth is essentially a justification for self-appointed "revolutionaries."

I know many militia members and you have to be very careful around them.

Many of them are brought-up with a philosophy based on the Christian Identity movement, which was part of what Robert Millar, founder of Elohim City, focused on.

For the most part, they are firearm glamour clubs that like to show off their wares while talking about saving the nation from a commie invasion, but given the right conditions they could be a very real problem.

a reply to: Grambler

Do you doubt her?

It's completely at odds with what the AWR-Kansas leader was saying on Aug 12th. She could have had her own reasons I suppose.

But how does this not show that if what this woman is saying is true, then the side protesting the removal of the statue had good people?

If that is what you really want to believe, do it. I'm burned out. This argument is absurd. You're trying to prove Trump right on a technicality and at this point, I've expended enough effort. I tried. Believe what you will.

If I can't persuade you of all people, that both sides aren't "equal" when 300 torch-wielding Nazis surround a group 1/10th that size, unarmed and composed of a fair number of not just women, but college girls? Even after I show you video of them instigating, initiating contact, beating people with torches. When we can't even agree on what is or isn't reality on *that* scale, what hope is there?

This country is #ed and it's only going to get worse. How much worse? I don't know but I'm now a lot less optimistic than I was before August 12th, 2017.

a reply to: Kryties

LOL, the new York times reported that the left was just as angry and violent. Multiple left wing reporters were attacked (unprovoked) by the leftist groups, they have video. There are many videos showing antifa attacking people minding their own business. The police said both sides were violent antagonists.

In other words, while this guy's story may be true to the location he was at, overall it is false. Being there doesn't make one all knowing and I'm completely unsurprised that you refuse to accept all of the other evidence that proves his general statement wrong. The left in this country has gone so far past reasonable, it's crazy. To think that condemning all political violence is controversial boggles my mind.

Replying to all: The only thought that keeps going through my mind reading all of these threads and posts...Are there really this many folks this really bored with life? Drama and distractions from reality are necessary? Is it due to the technology...the instant gratifications. Is it a thrill?

I am not trying to sound superior...I actually condemn myself far more often than I post. I read and read. Waves of agreement and disagreement with topics wash over me at reading various posts....yet, I still ask myself...why? I have tried to overcome stress in my immediate surroundings...family and friends. Done well at that...then find myself here. Sigh. Drama enfolds. Are we addicted and technology allows us to get a quick 'hit' for an adrenaline fix?

Sorry if I ranted...I could blame the wine embibed...but truthfully...we all know that my pc shield is just lowered due to that. Accepting responsibility.

a reply to: CynConcepts

If anything it's acceptance of reality. I'm not full of wine, I'm stone cold sober and I know quite well that the reality I live in is harsh and manipulated.

I can escape to the beach or something and do, but there is literally no escaping the reality that evil things are being done and stupid people are allowing it.

a reply to: CynConcepts

My opinion on that is that we all came here for a reason. Whether it was conspiracies, UFO's, cryptozoology, we all share to find the truth. Truth however is subjective. We aren't the only ones who know this. Facts are getting harder to come by and decipher out of the rampant BS.

However, some of us get bored and like to discuss/argue/debate...perhaps even stir the pot on occasion. *raises hand*

a reply to: GusMcDangerthing

I have spent most of my life as a people pleaser...IT sucked! Often you are used and it rarely is appreciated. Admittedly, as I age....I am realizing it is impossible to make everyone happy all the time. Recognizing this...didn't mean I # on everyone who disagrees with what I want...but recognize the 'true reality' is everyone does have their 'day'.

It sucks that reality has no real balance...utopia...is the dream. The success of this reality is to recognize it is a rip tide stream. You either let it pull you out to deeper waters, swim against it and drown, or swim at an angle across to reach the beach. Folks need to recognize this and save themselves. Others can't necessarily help...they are caught up too.

Edit add: not condemning others mind you...aka JinMi...lol... Just trying to swim through the current conspiracies of the day and missing the real conspiracies that brought me to ATS. I obviously am getting old...sigh.


Edit add2: to make sure I keep thread evident...I would never run for Political office! Egad! Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Everything is twisted based on the most current fad agenda. With technology...the cycle changes even quicker!

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

Why in gods name wouldn't she be considered as being on one of the two sides?

Perhaps that is where your confusion comes from. There are more than just two "sides" on this issue.

Trump boiled it down to two sides and in doing so said there were "fine people" on the side of the WS's/Neo-Nazis.

He then had to backtrack just a touch to include another "side" that were not attached to the racists/bigots, but were there for the defense of the history/statue/whatever.

Of course there were more than just two sides.

I ddon't understand you thinking here at all.

You are saying that because there were more than two sides, and trump says two sides, the clearly one of the two sides are evil nazis, and the other side is all the other people.

Why would that be?

It doesn't even remotely make sense.

He literally said some were good people their who just wanted to protest the removal of that statue.

I have pointed out some people that claimed to do just that.

Yet you are saying that when Trump says to sides, he was lumping those people on the side for the left, and only racist on the right.

I honestly have no clue how you remotely came to this conclusion.

a reply to: introvert

If you can't see the media hysteria at trump for saying both or all sides were bad, then I am afraid y0u are not living in the same reality as me.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: theantediluvian

I tend to be weary of people who self-appoint themselves to any position of power over other's lives. Whether it's Julian Assange playing geopolitics or armed militia people who think that they have a right to come to my town and patrol our streets.

Especially when the idiots they care to protect, beat up residents like a friggin death squad in action. Didn't matter that he was on the ground already, I'm surprised they didn't beat him to death.
Don't tease the guy in body armor with stones! They're clearly there to assemble peacefully!

I mean... what kind of militia are they? The deaf, dense and blind racoon platoon?

Anyway. Why do you folks 'need' militia in the first place? We would've seen at least 100 or 200 leos around in Germany for that parade alone, way more heavily geared up than the neo-nazis.
Violence on both sides ... right, as in "David and Goliath" without happy end and zero protection for bystanders. Thanks for the fish, you amateurs?

How could you watch that video and come away saying in this incident with this group on that viddeo that the people on the right were more wrong.

Even ante that you are postin to admitted the left people started the violence there.

a reply to: CynConcepts

I get that. The older I get the more I think screw it, let the kids argue because I'm tired. But not only does that get us nowhere as usual, it is ignoring the glaring fact that I am personally affected by the behavior of these nasty little mongrels who chant and march and yell and fight - from both sides.

Neither likes me. The right dislikes me because I'm gay and the left dislikes me because I don't agree with it. But I'm more conservative than I used to be so I fall into the alt-right category. I don't think we'll see change because people like us being so tired of the game.

But when are the newer ones going to realize that they are merely players in it? I know that I am and am rightly accused of playing my part but I think I should be forgiven for wanting to punch someone from the left once in a while for being so utterly stupid.

a reply to: Grambler

Of course there were more than just two sides. I ddon't understand you thinking here at all.

So you can agree with me, but can't understand my thinking?

You are saying that because there were more than two sides, and trump says two sides, the clearly one of the two sides are evil nazis, and the other side is all the other people.

That's not what I said.

It doesn't even remotely make sense.

Good thing I didn't say that.

He literally said some were good people their who just wanted to protest the removal of that statue.

That's not all that he said. There is more to it than that.

Yet you are saying that when Trump says to sides, he was lumping those people on the side for the left, and only racist on the right. I honestly have no clue how you remotely came to this conclusion.

When he boils it down to just two, yes. He was "lumping".

Perhaps he will be more careful next time.