I was in Charlottesville. Trump was wrong about violence on the left

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: introvert

If you can't see the media hysteria at trump for saying both or all sides were bad, then I am afraid y0u are not living in the same reality as me.

He also said both sides had good people.

A WS/Neo-nazi is not "good people".

I think I'll stick to my reality, in such a case.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: introvert

If you can't see the media hysteria at trump for saying both or all sides were bad, then I am afraid y0u are not living in the same reality as me.

He also said both sides had good people.

A WS/Neo-nazi is not "good people".

I think I'll stick to my reality, in such a case.

I interpreted the "sides" he mentioned to mean;
- Pro statue
- Con statue

Isn't that what the main topic of this march was supposed to be about to start. Whether to remove or preserve the confederate statue. I, personally an pro statue, bit I am not a WS or Nazi, and abhor their beliefs. I just think that destroying history is wrong in so many ways.

originally posted by: theantediluvian


If that is what you really want to believe, do it. I'm burned out. This argument is absurd. You're trying to prove Trump right on a technicality and at this point, I've expended enough effort. I tried. Believe what you will.

If I can't persuade you of all people, that both sides aren't "equal" when 300 torch-wielding Nazis surround a group 1/10th that size, unarmed and composed of a fair number of not just women, but college girls? Even after I show you video of them instigating, initiating contact, beating people with torches. When we can't even agree on what is or isn't reality on *that* scale, what hope is there?

This country is #ed and it's only going to get worse. How much worse? I don't know but I'm now a lot less optimistic than I was before August 12th, 2017.

When did I say both sides were equal there?

I said there could have been others not picrured that wrren't horrible.

I said that it wasn't clear who threw the first punch.

I said all of these people shown were vile scum.

Friday was bad. These people were in the wrong.

Yet you completely ignore saturday, the by far bigger incident.

Not even a peep from you.

You saw a video I posted and agreed the left looked bad there.

You just keep saying "But friday!"

by the saem token, that confederate guy on Tuesday, when all of the leftists surrounded him and screamed; they were all in the wrong, right? I mean who would set their and be involved with a group that would do that.

So after Friday, you fully admit the left were totally in the wrong.

Sp instead of looking at Friday or Saturday, I am just going to look at tuesaday and say the left are horrible and were the worst.

That makes no sense.

But thats what you are doing, looking only at Friday, where I agree the right people were way worse; so much so it not even close, and ignoring Saturday, where two disgusting groups came with the intent of causing violence.

Ad for the good people on the right; I am as frustrated with you as you are me.

You insist Trump is a nazi defender because he said there were good people on both sides.

You are literally saying that Every. Single. Person. protesting the statue are bad people.

This is insane. I show a woman who says she wasn't a racist and her group came to protest the statue. You either don't believe her or say its one person.

It honestly bordering on fanaticism.

If I were to saw to you at Ferguson that every single person there was evil, you would say I was nuts.

But here you are saying the same thing.

a reply to: Krakatoa

I interpreted the "sides" he mentioned to mean;
- Pro statue
- Con statue

Why the need for interpretation? He should have been clear. That is what we should expect from a president.

Isn't that what the main topic of this march was supposed to be about to start.

No. The main topic appears to be about White Supremacy/neo-Nazis marching.

Whether to remove or preserve the confederate statue. I, personally an pro statue, bit I am not a WS or Nazi, and abhor their beliefs. I just think that destroying history is wrong in so many ways.

I also say keep the statue, if that is what the people want. Their choice.

No matter, history is not destroyed either way.

a reply to: introvert

What was the original reason the group applied for and were granted a permit to march, there, that day? As far as I remember it was due to the call to remove that confederate statue. If that is the case, then the politics and belief systems are clouding the issue.

Were there violent actions at this event? Yes.
Were there violent actions on the part of the pro statue side (defending keeping the statue as is)? Yes.
Were there violent actions on the part of the con statue side (defending removing or destroying the statue as is)? Yes.

So, there was violence on both sides, but not from every participant, now was there? I don't see it as interpretation as much and understanding the original purpose of all this to start.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: introvert

If you can't see the media hysteria at trump for saying both or all sides were bad, then I am afraid y0u are not living in the same reality as me.

He also said both sides had good people.

A WS/Neo-nazi is not "good people".

I think I'll stick to my reality, in such a case.

Wow this is frustrating.

Here is part of his third presser, I will link the whole thing.

You show me where he is saying to you that WS were good.

TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group.

Q (Inaudible.)

TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did.

You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

Q George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

TRUMP: Well know, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down --

Excuse me, are we going to take down- are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?

Q I do love Thomas Jefferson.

TRUMP: Okay, good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue?

So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group.

abcnews.go.com...

a reply to: Grambler

Wow this is frustrating. Here is part of his third presser, I will link the whole thing. You show me where he is saying to you that WS were good.

It took 3 pressers to make that point clear?

No wonder people were pissed.

a reply to: introvert

There were 2 sides. There were those who were there for the statue and those who weren't.

Those who do not want the statue gone- There were good people even though what we see is fighting. Personally I cannot stand 98% of who I see there, spewing racist remarks, causing civil unrest and not promoting a true agenda to move forward from

Those who want the statue to remain - There were good people even though what we see is fighting. Personally I cannot stand 98% of who I see there, spewing racist remarks, causing civil unrest and not promoting a true agenda to move forward from

You cannot say with a clear conscience all on both sides of this 'battle' were wrong. It was not a protest. These are skirmishes and they are getting worse and worse. Just because the KKK and some Neo-Nazis were there does not make it any different from prior skirmishes.

To be clear I think there is no place for the KKK or Neo-Nazis in our modern society but there is also not room for those who were opposing them.

If that poor woman was not killed this would have been another footnote with 2 sides battling each other and some you tube videos to stir up the based of both. Like in July...same place and same people...

www.usatoday.com...

Protesters jeered and booed as around 50 Klan members, some wearing hoods and waving Confederate flags, walked through the streets to gather at Justice Park, escorted by police in riot gear.

The 'other' side in the article is described as 1000's.

These are not protests. Again, 98% are not there to protest now...they are there to fight.

a reply to: introvert

It didn't take me 3 pressers to understand that. I knew from the start because I understood the issue and it's original reason. Many people did not, and perhaps let their political hatred cloud their view of the event? That, IMO, is why it required 2 pressers the explain to the ignorant what he meant the first time.

Full context is everything, and acknowledging that without the fog of politics allows you to see and understand more clearly.

Sheesh....

originally posted by: introvert
Why the need for interpretation? He should have been clear. That is what we should expect from a president.

Those people -- all of those people --excuse me, I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee.

...

So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

abcnews.go.com...

What was not clear about that?

a reply to: matafuchs

There were 2 sides. There were those who were there for the statue and those who weren't.

What about those there to push an agenda of WS or Neo-Nazi ideals? Was that lumped in to those two sides?

If so, we have a problem.

If that poor woman was not killed this would have been another footnote with 2 sides battling each other and some you tube videos to stir up the based of both.

But she was killed. What now?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler

Wow this is frustrating. Here is part of his third presser, I will link the whole thing. You show me where he is saying to you that WS were good.

It took 3 pressers to make that point clear?

No wonder people were pissed.

Ok your point was by saying both sides had good people it meant he was defending neo nazis.

So now move the goal post and throw that out the window.

So now we are back to it took to long to condemn nazis, a totally different argument.

Surely you are not being this unreasonable.

HIstorically, not just in 2015, Trump has said he does not like Duke...

www.washingtonpost.com...

In 1991

1991 CNN’s Larry King: “Did the David Duke thing bother you? Fifty-five percent of the whites in Louisiana voted for him.”

Trump: “I hate seeing what it represents, but I guess it just shows there’s a lot of hostility in this country. There’s a tremendous amount of hostility in the United States.”

King: “Anger?”

Trump: “It’s anger. I mean, that’s an anger vote. People are angry about what’s happened. People are angry about the jobs. If you look at Louisiana, they’re really in deep trouble. When you talk about the East Coast, it’s not the East Coast. It’s the East Coast, the middle coast, the West Coast…”

In 2000....

“The Reform Party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a neo-Nazi, Mr. [Patrick] Buchanan, and a communist, Ms. [Lenora] Fulani. This is not company I wish to keep.” — Trump, in a statement saying he will not accept the Reform Party nomination for president, Feb. 13, 2000

NBC’s Matt Lauer: “When you say the [Reform] party is self-destructing, what do you see as the biggest problem with the Reform Party right now?” Trump: “Well, you’ve got David Duke just joined — a bigot, a racist, a problem. I mean, this is not exactly the people you want in your party.” —remarks on NBC’s “Today Show,” Feb. 14, 2000

26 years ago he denounce Duke...and it still comes up....pathetic...

a reply to: Grambler

Ok your point was by saying both sides had good people it meant he was defending neo nazis.

That was not my point. I said I could see why others were offended.

So now we are back to it took to long to condemn nazis, a totally different argument.

One presser was too long. It took you 3 pressers to show Trump's defense.

So now we are back to it took to long to condemn nazis, a totally different argument.

You find it reasonable that it took 3 pressers to condemn Nazis?

Surely you are not being this unreasonable.

No. I'm not that stupid. What Trump said was stupid. You're defending stupid>

Why?

a reply to: introvert

Who were they hurting? Seriously. There is not and never will be a chance in hell that they would go any farther than the lame ass rallies they have. Let the losers talk. If they hurt someone, arrest them. Most times they just say the same dumb #. It is freedom of speech. I do not like it so I would not be there. No one should be there to support them but with the 'anti-protesting' you give them a platform. I am offended by what they say. I have a very old friend I have known since middle school who is just like these people. He knows that if he comes around he hides his tats and does not talk about it around my family. What he does on his own time is his business but it is not my place to tell him what he can do in public.

If they would have let them talk, like they did in Early July, that poor woman would still be alive. That is what I am saying.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: dfnj2015

Oh wait minute, the white supremacists went to Charlotte

Wait you mean a bunch of people that don't live in Charlotte got in to a scuffle with a bunch of OTHER people that don't live in Charlotte.

And the op is a first hand account of what happens when two opposites attract.

Go figure.

Next tell us water is wet.

Hmm, so the op lives there or came to town with one side? I wonder what the truth is with that too.

The White Supremacists would attack decisively and wore insignia or uniforms.
I SAW on TV a black masked child in civies try to slap fight one and the kid got pasted in the face as 2 guys removed the supremacist before he could harm the boy further.
Claims are claims .
ALL of this is a fault of those who attack alone ...THOSE who want history changed because they are emotionally hurt by it.
THAT will NOT be allowed to happen,and WE aren't as stupid as our coastal enclaves of socialism.
THE clear and obvious BROWN shirt SS tactics of Soros are ON DISPLAY, including responses to THIS claiming I am mad or confused as Goering /Bill Ayers would have it.

originally posted by: introvert
No. I'm not that stupid. What Trump said was stupid.

Really? Who is more stupid, the person that did not understand a statement the first time and needed it dumbed down in 3 iterations for them to understand it, or someone that understood it the first time, without being dumbed down?

I don;t think you are stupid though. I think you have let your political partisanship and hatred to cloud your mind enough to prevent your understanding of President Trump's original statement. Many didn't need it explained to understand the meaning given the context of the event and the full information of why people were there.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler



You find it reasonable that it took 3 pressers to condemn Nazis?

I like yo and think you make great points sometimes.

But I seriously feel like you haven't even read and of Trump comments.

Not only are you now totally changing you argument from he meaant white supremacists were good people when he said both sides, but you are saying he waited until the third conference to condemn nazis.

Anyone will even the smallest interests in this matter know without a doubt that Trump condemned the nazis/KKK,] in his second speech on this by name, not even mentioning anyone from the other side.

How could you say he waited until three if you know this?

Are you really arguing about trumps comments this hard with having no idea what he said.

Second speech of his.

But based on the events that took place over the weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia, I would like to provide the nation with an update on the ongoing federal response to the horrific attack and violence that was witnessed by everyone. I just met with F.B.I. Director Christopher Wray, and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The Department of Justice has opened a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that killed one innocent American and wounded 20 others.
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To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend’s racist violence, you will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered. As I said on Saturday, we condemn, in the strongest possible terms, this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America.

And as I have said many times before, no matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws. We all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God.

We must love each other, show affection for each other and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty, that bring us together as Americans.

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originally posted by: abago71
Ann coulter retweeted a video compilation that is quite interesting. I believe it is already "unavailable" on twitter now.
I am unable to post it on my phone but I did get a screenshot of it. I will post it when I get home.

Here is a quick synopsis:

#resist
Bury this video of Antifa attacking "Journalists".
They shouldn't be filming us in public anyways.
#Resist

It involves Antifa knocking phones out of people's hands (including a reporter) if they appear to be recording.

It was reported by cbs6 WTVR Richmond.
It also has screen caps of tweets.

I did not make or condone the video but it may provide some info and footage to dig up.