Russia to expel US displomats

a reply to: Velatropa24

The US doing bad things doesn't change the fact that Russia acted against the US. If you talk smack about someone and they come and punch you in the face for it are you going to sit there and let them because you did a bad thing? How many freebies do they get before you say okay, get out of my house and I won't do business with you?

a reply to: Kali74

We don't know yet.

The world continues to offer the US freebies.

a reply to: tadaman

What?

It is not my judgement.

It is not supposition.

Russia acted against the United States.

It does not mean physical war.

It does not mean Trump and co. did anything wrong.

It means Russia did bad things to us and we imposed sanctions for it. Now in return for those sanctions Russia is expelling some of our diplomats.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Velatropa24

The US doing bad things doesn't change the fact that Russia acted against the US. If you talk smack about someone and they come and punch you in the face for it are you going to sit there and let them because you did a bad thing? How many freebies do they get before you say okay, get out of my house and I won't do business with you?

Just sayin - double standards are a bad thing. If you don't want bad things to happen to you, don't do them to others. If you are doing something yourself - don't judge others for the same thing.

And just for the record, in your own terminology, the situation is more like this: you go and trash-talk, cause problems for someone, they retaliate with the same, then you get upset and escalate it further.

the embassies ar eon american soil. technically the russians do not own it. it is being lent to them. you dont piss off your landlord.

originally posted by: yuppa
the embassies ar eon american soil. technically the russians do not own it. it is being lent to them. you dont piss off your landlord.

Actually, not only do they own them, but American laws have no effect on the territory of the embassy, it's like a little piece of Russia on american soil. It is the same in all countries. That is why Julian Assange is able to hide from authorities in the center of London - the Brits don't have jurisdiction there. Entering without permission would be the same as illegally crossing the boarder.

There you go - you've learned something new today.

Lol, the OP blames Trump for the relationship souring?
I've heard it all now.

a reply to: Kali74

"Bad things."

"To us"

O.o
__

Well Putin is no saint but the daily news and archives of this site detail that the United States is on a quest for total world domination and has become an enemy of not only mankind but the planet itself in this process.Putin does not want chemtrails,geoengineering,a population unhealthy and sterile,frankenfoods etc which makes him an enemy of the USA.

originally posted by: Velatropa24

originally posted by: yuppa
the embassies ar eon american soil. technically the russians do not own it. it is being lent to them. you dont piss off your landlord.

Actually, not only do they own them, but American laws have no effect on the territory of the embassy, it's like a little piece of Russia on american soil. It is the same in all countries. That is why Julian Assange is able to hide from authorities in the center of London - the Brits don't have jurisdiction there. Entering without permission would be the same as illegally crossing the boarder.

There you go - you've learned something new today.

Emminent domain. No they are still technically US soil. We can cut off their electricity, water,as well. They are spy compounds and thats why they were seized. Using a embassy for spying breaks the agreement rules. If we revoke our embassy deals with russia those revert back t the US because we hold the super deeds

a reply to: Velatropa24

I am not uncritical of the US... lol

I would like to see us actually follow through with action or better yet inaction, the values we claim to have. That doesn't mean that I need to welcome, tolerate nor appreciate cyber attacks and subterfuge by a foreign nation.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Velatropa24

originally posted by: yuppa
the embassies ar eon american soil. technically the russians do not own it. it is being lent to them. you dont piss off your landlord.

Actually, not only do they own them, but American laws have no effect on the territory of the embassy, it's like a little piece of Russia on american soil. It is the same in all countries. That is why Julian Assange is able to hide from authorities in the center of London - the Brits don't have jurisdiction there. Entering without permission would be the same as illegally crossing the boarder.

There you go - you've learned something new today.

Emminent domain. No they are still technically US soil. We can cut off their electricity, water,as well. They are spy compounds and thats why they were seized. Using a embassy for spying breaks the agreement rules. If we revoke our embassy deals with russia those revert back t the US because we hold the super deeds

All embassies are spy compounds, especially the US embassy in Moscow. Everyone knows about it. That is not the reason why they were expelled. The reason was American internal political in-fighting and instability, the same with this whole Russian hacking absurdness. Nothing brings a divided country together like an external enemy.

Spy activity around embassies is actually quite convenient for the counter-intelligence agencies.

a reply to: markosity1973

Read the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and then come back and discuss why Russian diplomats were booted and why 2 properties were seized. I dont mind people being critical of the US. I mind them not knowing the specifics as to why something was done and then trying to blame the US for it.

Compounds seized by US in December reportedly contained material useful in Russia probe

Russia "destroyed and removed" from the New York and Maryland compounds seized by the United States materials that could have helped in the U.S. probe into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, according to CBS News.

Antennas, electronics, computers and file cabinets were among the gear found damaged at the compounds after being seized by the U.S. government in December, an official told CBS News. Other material useful to the investigation into Russia's election meddling was gone.

The destroyed and missing material "raises the significance of the compounds in connection with Russia's election-interference operations," CBS News reported.

The diplomatic compounds in New York and Maryland, which were believed to be used by Russian intelligence against the United States, were shut down Dec. 29 by former President Barack Obama, who declared 35 Russian operatives "persona non grata" and forced them to leave the country.

click link for full article...

Article 12
The sending State may not, without the prior express consent of the receiving State, establish offices forming part of the mission in localities other than those in which the mission itself is established.

Article 41
1. Without prejudice to their privileges and immunities, it is the duty of all persons enjoying such privileges and immunities to respect the laws
and regulations of the receiving State. They also have a duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of that State.

2. All official business with the receiving State entrusted to the mission by the sending State shall be conducted with or through the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of the receiving State or such other ministry as may be agreed.

3. The premises of the mission must not be used in any manner incompatible with the functions of the mission as laid down in the present onvention or by other rules of general international law or by any special agreements in force between the sending and the receiving State.

not so much 'tit for tat' as 'twat for twat' (is that word ok?), really.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Velatropa24

I am not uncritical of the US... lol

I would like to see us actually follow through with action or better yet inaction, the values we claim to have. That doesn't mean that I need to welcome, tolerate nor appreciate cyber attacks and subterfuge by a foreign nation.

You do realize we do the same stuff and worse, right?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: markosity1973

Oh come on now, even fake news CNN has admitted that the Russian interference thing is a and i quote; "Big fat nothing burger"

That's not true. The Russian interference thing is well established. The Russians interfered in the US 2016 Presidential Election, and Obama expelled Russian "spies" and confiscated 2 Russian complexes, and then imposed financial sanctions. All the while, Trump is claiming and blaming Obama for doing nothing.

Let's break the Russian interference thing down.

The most solid evidence I have heard of was the Russians approaching Trump's son and offering dirt on Hilary. That actually happened. We know that Hilary had a lot of dirt exposed on her during the election.

But hey, where there is smoke there is fire right? I mean, not excusing the above here, but it could have just as easily been Wikileaks or some random whistleblower from within that let the information out. Hilary is and was rotten to the core.

The part that the Russia collusion hysteria is ignoring that other countries also had favourites in the Trump / Clinton election race. Pretty much everyone else in the Western World was backing Hilary and belittling Trump because he was seen as too radical and an absolute buffoon.

They've all shutup now........

So, while Trump was Russia's obvious choice on who should win the election, Russia was far from the only country to back a candidate. There are many dirty secrets out there like;

Australian Taxpayers pay $75 Million To Clinton Foundation

You should have seen Australian media attack and belittle Trump during the election cycle....... Kinda makes sense when you are making payments to Hilary, doesn't it?

So, while it would appear that Russia may have had a hand in your election from an internal viewpoint, I think if everyone keeps digging, most of the world had something to do with it - either financially, or more directly through attempted media influence. The whole Russia thing is reactionary and based upon the fact that they did not expect Trump to win.

Again, I call bunk on the whole thing, Russia is just the imaginary boogeyman here. Unless it can be proven that what Russia did made voters directly change their mind at the voting booths, then they are just one of many parties who tried to influence the outcome. Remember, it was the disaffected rural white voters who took the USA by surprise and got Trump over the line.

Now, the US Congress has strengthened sanctions against Russian, and there is absolutely nothing that Trump can do about it. Putin is not reacting to Trump, by expelling these American's from Russia, he's reacting to the Congressional Bill sitting on Trump's desk, hoping that he'll veto it. Doing so will just make more trouble for Trump in regards to his "Russian problem", though, in the long run.

Correct. Congress is not on side with Trump - just look at the Obamacare debacle. The POTUS now finds himself at war with the system itself. Congress is acting like a belligerent child, deciding for themselves that they don't need to answer to no President.

Russia again is just the boogeyman and an unwitting pawn in a power struggle. At the end of the day, as I opined in my OP, the actions Obama took to confiscate the two Dachas is illegal under international law. How and why should the USA simply decide what international laws it will and will not comply with? What is the point of the rule of law when a nation simply picks and chooses what it wants to adhere to?

And it is for the above reasons I believe that the USA should return the properties. Look what it has lead to - tit for tat. And now Russia is doing illegal things and seizing USA property in Russia.

a reply to: markosity1973

There are 2 seperate issues that people seem to have merged into 1.

1 - Trump team collusion with Russia.
2 - Russia interfering in US elections.

1 - Nothing concrete as ever been proven / located. Collusion is not even a crime.
2 - There is evidence of Russia attempting to interfere in our election. There is also evidence Russia has interfered in other nations elections.

All nations, including the US, do this. This go around Russia seemed to have gotten caught though.

a reply to: Xcathdra

It still does not give the USA legal powers under international law to seize the properties. Furthermore, it seems right there in the article that the seizure was a technical invasion of another country's land.

I can pretty much guarantee that the USA will do the same in Russia now that they are taking back a couple of properties too. It's a known thing that embassies are places where secrets are kept.

None of what your article states provides proof that there was every any useful evidence that clearly pins blame on Russia for election interference. It simply laments that the Russians got mad and broke stuff to ensure they will never find out. The article insinuates that they were expecting to find a trove of documents next to a half drunk cup of coffee entitled "Operation Trumpski for President"

Remember, suspicion alone is never proof.

a reply to: markosity1973

Yes, it does.


See post here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Lol. Circular argument much?

They seized the property to look for proof of suspicion because they had no proof. Just suspicion.

Then they were all disappointed because Russia took or broke all its stuff. Still not proof of anything other than a couple of temper tantrums between Obama and Putin.

That dossier entitled 'Trumpski for President' would have been proof. But it was not found. TBCH, the approach Obama used was as subtle as a bull in a China shop and just plain dumb. I'm pretty sure the CIA or FBI could have covertly intercepted emails and transmissions had that really been interested in catching Russia out.

But my guess is that either didn't think of it,or tried and got nothing.