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Defending Against Attacks/Harassment from High Strangeness Phenomena

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posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 02:14 PM
a reply to: Gryphon66

I have the best advice for you: if you are currently gainfully employed, by all means, remain fully gainfully employed;

I found that when i had these types of experiences that i would linger excessively over them, thinking contemplating and trying to study to a point where work becomes secondary- never lose your job because if the entities are really malevolent, they will try to destroy everything: your finances, your livelihood, your ability to keep a home, and to keep a family together. So work as much as posible and also, do not let it affect your health adversely: do not turn to alcohol to remedy the depression or the problem, alcohol and drugs can give them greater power over you; You will need more vitamin supplements and super work out foods, eggs proteins etc;

Find people you trust to talk about it, and do not take the information to a psychiatrist- you'll be labeled mentally unstable.
Stay employed always!! and make your job the center of your and your family's life!!

REST. You also have to be able to rest and sleep fully, to regenerate energy.
edit on 24-4-2017 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 03:01 PM

originally posted by: Gryphon66

These modern figures are analogues to the classic creatures of The Otherworld ... and of course, I'm not the first one to notice.

Sasquatch (trolls or ogres)

Greys (little people, fairies, goblins or gnomes)

Reptilians (Snakes, Dragons, etc.)

Nordics (Elves, Angels)

Shadow People (Demons, Deva, etc.)

Mothman (Demon, Devil)

UFOs (Fairies (lights), also Angels, etc.)

My experience with the dark matter included a couple of car accidents,

being violently thrown down at a super market out of nowhere,

sexual, genital harassment,

endless, cussing and language profanities,

and a bionic attack to the heart, leaving me unable to move,
and to een get up from a couch for about a day..

the following day i was in pain but moving and back to normal;

I ran to my university, UC Berkeley
Then I ran to France and Greece

Then I buckled to Italy.. and that is where I found the truth;

Unfortunately though, I'm still running..
and it's actually still attached to me..

Can't tell too many people about it;
edit on 24-4-2017 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 03:04 PM
a reply to: tony9802

Great advice! Let me summarize:

Stay employed, participate fully in society.

Make every effort not to contemplate the Experiences obsessively.

Stay healthy, avoid alcohol and drugs (particularly useful in maintaining a focused level of consciousness!)

Talk to people, don't face whats going on alone.

Work Hard.

Rest Often.

Thanks. (I'm not currently under attack from anything Tony, but I appreciate your contributions! Very good advice.)

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 03:06 PM
a reply to: tony9802

What was the truth you found in Italy, Tony?

If you're comfortable sharing with us, of course.

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 03:19 PM

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: tony9802

What was the truth you found in Italy, Tony?

If you're comfortable sharing with us, of course.

The truth, not just in Italy, but also in areas of the Eastern Byzantine Empire: I basically found a return to myself somehow, a return to some type of inner centeredness and a return to being good and well, and a return to practicing self care, wellness and protection;

The dark material/essence has tried to disfigure me by injuring me bodily physically, facially..returning to those areas somehow reharmonizes my person and maintains, consolidates the integrity of that person; It nurtures and sustains the structure of my physical persona, and most importantly it invigorates my Body power; the power of physical self Defense;
edit on 24-4-2017 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 03:32 PM
a reply to: Gryphon66

Exactly..Tell your friend to remain SOCIAL, remain ACTIVE, do not become depressed; Remain EMPLOYED and precisely that, do not become OBSESSIVE over the paranormal activity;

I can see you are much more metaphysical, and philosophical about these matters, and I think that would give you and your friend an edge over these occurrences-- worst case scenario is if the visiting material wishes to practice some type of injurious mind control over him..they can do that as well;
They can approach you as friendly light, only to turn into something horrendously obscene and life threatening; Stay in charge from the beginning, but always maintain normal healthy life outside of the experience.

Get plenty of sleep, and always remain employed!! It will test you and your family's, his and his family's, total endurance, unless you are all able to make it go away.

Atheists and intellectuals though are not as easily controlled by these things for one reason or another..and that's actually very fortunate..

Are you going to share this thread with the person to whom this is all happening?

edit on 24-4-2017 by tony9802 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 05:26 PM
a reply to: Gryphon66

The ganzfield effect is an interesting one. I enjoy toying around with staring at a clear blue sky, and observing the "portal" like shape that forms.

I think a lot of the discomfort comes from stimuli that are either at the very edge of our perception, like VLF or even EMF, or completely outside it yet are processed in some neurological fashion anyway.

This makes a lot of sense to me, as it is probably wise to have some response in case danger is somehow involved. Fear of the unknown is frequently criticized, and it CAN cause issues, but I think there is a pretty darn good basis for its validity. And what could be more "unknown" than something that flits and flops at the edge of our perception itself?

I think you said it well with (paraphrasing) "its not so much about defense or protection, but awareness." I think that's where it gets tricky too, since practices to build that awareness are not frequently involved in the conversation directly, but it tends to be involved all the same. Even when they are explicitly discussed, who is to say that they are effective? Correlation does not equal causation, but boy can it be difficult to discern what's really happening sometimes. That's why I kind of went off on my own and walked away from any standardized system (which was Buddhism at the time).

My working conclusion was that basically anything that caused a conscious "EM event" of a certain magnitude can result in anything from hauntings to "protection." That can be a short term, but intense event, or one that is repeated over time (like walking around ones house). It seems to work in much the same way as building a "normal" house in that it provides defense from the elements and general entities. In much the same way, it seems like our state of mind and intention is a bit like what materials are used in the "normal" house. Some are better for different purposes and environments.

I suspect the mechanism behind it directly relates with temporal vs non-temporal and the notion that maybe some things span both. I'm reluctant to get too into that, as I don't feel I can successfully relate it, but as a basic idea I think its clear enough; if parts of "things" exist both in arenas of time, and arenas where time does not exist, that interaction could result in phenomena where the timeless section could echo across time and decay at a different rate. My latest attempt to describe this in-depth starts here and goes on for a handful of posts, but I'm not particularly good at it. Despite that, might be interesting if someone is bored enough.

A large amount of my own experiences deal with Faeries. Further discussion I've had about the topic seems largely based on hearsay and second-hand information, at best. Up to and including the notion that ALL of these phenomena are caused by the same "thing," simply wearing different facades. I'm not convinced of that, but its certainly something to ponder.

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 05:46 PM
a reply to: tony9802

Someone had asked for help in one of the other forums. I was very irritated with myself that the only advice I could give was to get out ... leave their home and the area.

Nothing else (before I started intensely researching this subject about a week ago) occurred to me. In fact, I realized that had the belief that seems to be prevalent among many that there was nothing that could be done to defend himself, his home or his family.

Why would I BELIEVE that? That's the exact opposite to the way I live my life. Somewhere back in my development (and I have a sneaking suspicion as to where and when) something put a suggestion deep in my consciousness not only to not try to take actions against such things (or help someone out who was asking for help) BUT NOT EVEN TO THINK ABOUT IT.

Thus, this thread. Does that make sense?

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 06:17 PM
a reply to: Serdgiam

A lot of this depends on our Enteric Nervous System ... and the sporadic connections to the conscious side of our Central Nervous System. Some folks don't know that we have about as many neurons in our gut (the intestinal tract) as a dog or cat has in its brain and nervous system; about five times as many as are found in the spinal cord, and about 1/200th of the number in our "head-brain."

That's right ... essentially, we have two brains. (Actually three, but that's a story for another day.) LOL.

Intuition is the result of the ENS rapidly processing information which when communicated to the head-brain results in "flashes" of insight, information, warning, etc. that we can either use or ignore. ("I just felt that something was wrong in my gut.")

However, I believe that in some of us, there is an older connection that allows the ENS to literally take control of our sensory systems (particularly the eyes and ears) however, the way this information is processed is much ... different than the CNS processes the same data.

Therefore some of us (all the time, or only at certain times) can "see" things that "aren't there" (because our standard work-a-day minds don't need to see them). The CNS filters out an AMAZING amount of the information we actually take in, and our conscious state or sense of awareness is based on the ... dare I say it "holographic image-map" that our nervous system creates for us.

This is as close to "woo" as I come these days, LOL. Current research to this point tells us that the enteric nervous system is mostly concerned with digestion, but that its processes also effect mood, because, the majority of the serotonin in the body (95%) is found, created or stored in the gut. Isn't that interesting? There's no scientific basis at all for the ENS taking over the sensory systems, although, we do know that the ENS connects directly to the Autonomic Nervous System as well.

Vallee, Keel and Tonnies are about the only writers in this field that I have maintained an interest in over the years in my intentional paradigm shift to an atheistic materialist, and none of them would disagree with your suspicion that there is "one thing to rule them all" behind the phenomena.

However, for me, the question is not so much the Who, but rather, the Where?

What is the primary locus of this "Otherworld"?

My goodness ... aren't I chatty today?

(I'm headed now to read your other post in the other thread. Thanks for the link.)

edit on 24-4-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 06:38 PM
Going to reply to you both,
Serdgiam & Gryphon66

I'd forgotten about Labyrinths, I'm partial to the 11 circuit ones as you have more time to build the energy as you walk.
They're also great for Newbies since you are only able to end up in one "place" so built in safety factor.

That said I've never NOT been aware that we're the johnny come lately's (whatever generation you're of) and there is virtually no land anywhere that hasn't had people on it at one time or another. I have to myself used the term "emotional litter" to describe all the residue and junk that's been left. I also don't rule out the crud/entities that may have been attached to previous people.

For grins and giggles I used to wonder what kind of crud/entities could have possibly pestered our Neanderthal ancestors? What level of trauma could there have been during an unsuccessful Mammoth hunt?

Whose new housing development just got slammed up there and "Wow! Bet THEY'RE wondering what the heck is going on!!!"

I agree with the first order of business is making "a place" your own.

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 06:59 PM
a reply to: Caver78

As far as what has gone before on the land we're on ... Pangea.

There seems to be something to the idea of marking boundaries. There is also something fundamental in that for the way our minds work ... if this is "our" space ... we react differently toward it.

Oddly enough, I just realized, I do it with Gnomes in the yard. I've also done a version of the energy lattice though. Spirals in my case.

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 07:20 PM
a reply to: Gryphon66

That's actually an interesting twist on what I was taking about, but I'm happy you brought it up for a couple reasons.

The first is a clarification on my part; what I was talking about isn't necessarily the information that was parsed out of normal data, but the stimuli which "technically" shouldn't be processed at all.

That said, perhaps in this context they are one in the same.

The other reason is that it is also my contention that we can actively process our ENS alongside the typical CNS in our active awareness, and that it isn't limited to those systems either. I suspect that this is the type of concept being relayed with something like "chakras," and various meditations, OBE, NDE, etc. Though personally, I'm not at all a fan of the particularly popular takes on the matter (I think I've said that a few times now!). I've experienced all of them, including dying (it got better), and my experience was.. so totally different that it makes it difficult to pull it together into a cohesive narrative for "us."

Its actually this process that I was referring to with my previous mention of breathing exercises and thinking. Along the line, we have taken to using our CNS as the sole "parser of data," when I believe there are others in play. The issue is that once this happens, its difficult to make the jump back. We process the ENS, along with others, strictly through the CNS when I hold the opinion they are complementary processes. Much like learning other languages, it also seems that once one is "learned," the rest come a bit more easily.

I believe this was lost somewhere along the line too. Occasionally I suspect that the loss of this type of processing is told in the story of Adam and Eve. Kind of relates, I think? Instead of a cohesive picture of integral, but distinct parts, it became all about either/or, good/evil.

I also must clarify that I do not like the idea of all of "this" being sourced in exactly the same thing. While it may be true in some sense, I suspect the idea arises from our tendency to "monolithicize" (heh) difficult, foreign concepts. Obviously, I could be completely wrong.

I agree though that the "who" isn't particularly important to me, but instead of being interested in "where," I also add in "when" as a very, very significant point of interest.

I find it entertaining that I think the best way to deal with these things (protection, defenses, scary /nosleep type stuff) is basically delving into some of the deepest parts of our own existence. Maybe that's why I almost find things like "salt in thresholds" almost insulting; I just feel in my gut there is more to it!

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 09:52 PM
a reply to: Serdgiam

There is more to it. Interestingly, beyond science, beyond mysticism, beyond logic and beyond belief.

I was raised in a very religiously fundamental house. As soon as my mind matured sufficiently, I realized that the universe as explained in church was like swiss cheese (not holy nor wholly but just holey). Not entirely on my own, I started to consider shamanism as a way of looking at the world (Way of the Shaman, Michael Harner). Had an experience (in inner space not outer space) that convinced me that there was ... so much more. Then I studied every science offered in my high school and intended to major in physics in college. Took the physics, and found out, to my chagrin, that when push comes to shove that science ALSO depends on a series of beliefs.

Spiralling further and further out on the fringes until my basic rationality resasserted itself and I became an atheistic (areligious) materialist for about decade.

And recently, of course as these things do ... domino after domino fell to remind me once again reminded me that scientific materialism is just another praxis, and I got tied up in a few threads here, had a few lucid dreams, and here I am.

Yes. The world is not only stranger than we imagine, it's very likely stranger than we can imagine. A Native American fellow I've come to trust a lot lately looks at a lot of the "protection" and laughs. In his world there is no "good and evil" spirits, but only different ones, and further, since we all have the core of the Creator inside of us, that stands with us, why should we be afraid?

I, needless to say, am not there yet, nor do I want to return there. However, to truly lay bare whatever DOES serve as the core of my Being ... I still hold out hope.

And I agree that in those "ancient ways" laced into our brains and bone with the threads of millions of years of experience and time (which requires, by the way, no "soul" or "reincarnation" ...) is the tapestry that reveals the facts of our existence.

At which point, what is there really to protect ourselves from?

posted on Apr, 24 2017 @ 10:26 PM
a reply to: Sonder

Totally agree. Thanks!

posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 01:40 PM
Ran across this list of defenses SPECIFIC to anyone suffering from Sasquatch mischief or harassment.

How to Get Rid of the Bigfoot at the Window

Many of the points that were covered in Ann Druffel's list generically are covered here in specific detail:

Here are just a few of the tips:


Tell them to GO AWAY and NOT COME BACK. I know, but I hear it can work.

Do not do anything that leads them to believe you know they are there, they exist. I put up X’s in front of windows and I think it was a mistake.

Do not respond to any provocation on their part. If they tap, do not tap back. If they slam the house, do not go outside. If they are on the roof, deal with it in the morning.

DO NOT play bigfoot sounds or whoop or knock.

Supervise children 100% of time.

Be assertive but not aggressive. Your yard and home are your territory, off limits to them.

posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 05:29 PM

originally posted by: Gryphon66
At which point, what is there really to protect ourselves from?

A very good question isn't it?

That's the reason I like the house analogy. I don't live in a cabin to defend myself against rain and bears, I do it simply because I don't particularly want them in that particular area of my space. I love to look out my window and see a momma bear on her back rolling in the grass five feet from my door. I like being startled by a moose suddenly staring into a window behind my TV. I like when something "messes" with the lights.

I really see all these things as the same, there are just times and spaces that I would rather not deal with it. In my view, there isnt much difference from that moose or that shadow person. For others, there is a MASSIVE difference and frequently its like that is accompanied by these issues. When I was in that type of state, I eventually realized that what I was fighting and defending against was actually the archetypes and assumptions in my own mind. It seems that changing that attitude alone is one of the most effective steps one can take. In my experience, it both closes and opens the doors I like best.

I mean, we could delve deep into semantics here, but I think you get what I'm saying.

I was raised similarly. All of these "woo" experiences were from the devil, or some type of evil, and for a young child that is terrifying. Unsurprisingly I "rebelled" against such belief systems virulently for years. I eventually went into the ooey gooey love extreme, where all my experiences made me "special."

Eventually, I made the realization that I was fighting/accepting those archetypes in others minds. I set out to discover and learn everything for myself and that was one of the best decisions I ever made. But, it was a tough one too, especially because I liked to think I was already doing things that way.

What's interesting is that either extreme seemed to exacerbate the frequency and magnitude of experiences. Neither extreme seemed to precipitate more "good" or "evil" events, just more of everything. Like yourself, I vacillated between extremes (I'm so special! Wait, no, I'm just a narcissistic speck of dust!) before I reached some sort of equilibrium.

It really does seem that state of mind is a first line of "defense," of sorts, and arguably, it is the simplest and most difficult item to actually work with.

Its only been recently (past 5-10 years) that I added "when" to the questions of "who/what/where," and I think that is really the one that fascinates me the most.

With a moose or bear, the "when" is roughly the same as me. But, for these other things, that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Even with your typical, basic haunting it would appear that "when" isn't nearly as static as our normal experience. Events long past suddenly appear in the same frame as "now." I dig that, and even though its something we have only begun to explore, I suspect it might one of the most relevant factors of the topic. Maybe even one of the most relevant factors in the human experience.

My dad passed away a few weeks ago, and we were very, very close. Of course, I'm completely heartbroken about it, but moments after he passed it felt like he was giving me the most astonishing "hug." In that moment I was certain, absolutely certain, that we would meet again. That was because it felt like it had already happened. It still baffles me, honestly, but it harkens back to that "when." I'm not sure I believe in any of the standard afterlife scenarios, but I do think there is something there. Something that interacts with the typical passage and experience of time, but is not bound to it like we are.

That's one of the aspects that leads me to believe there is a diversity to these things, rather than it being different faces of the same phenomena. In that respect, something like a Bigfoot would need a bit different handling than a moose, shadow person, or Faerie.

On the note of science involving beliefs.. you know that's heresy, right?
I chose that word specifically too.. I think that as long as we are the ones doing it, we are innately bound in certain ways. Interestingly, it seems our tendency is to shift from honest exploration to holding our views as immutable, omniscient fact regardless of what system is employed. I like to think the next revolution of understanding will finally put it to rest, but it never has. Funny how we not only cycle through those individual viewpoints like we've talked about, but also collectively over generations. And we are always so damn sure.

Even so, I do maintain that the scientific method is the best we've got, and I can't fathom what could be better.. but the same thing was probably said before the advent of the SM too. I hope we get to see what's next in our lifetimes though. I think we will.
And I think it will finally begin to give some insight into the very things this thread is about.

posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 06:59 PM
a reply to: Serdgiam

Excellent thoughts eloquently expressed.

As arbitrary or predictable or as picayune as it might sound, everything really does come back around to belief. Mundane example ... it's unimportant what evidence there is for something like climate change, or human evolution or what-have-you ... most people still don't "believe in it."

So what difference can it possibly make. If climate change is happening, and if we could have done or could do anything to stop it ... it really doesn't matter if we have gigabytes of clear data ... if we don't (as a species) ACT AS IF IT WERE TRUE ... then it means nothing.

I've wasted a lot of time in my life arguing for "the facts." Facts that are so ... basic, so obvious, so substantiated by evidence that literally anyone should be able to see and say "Eureka!"

I'll let you guess what generally happens.

... and even though at the core of science the only "questions" are really semantic or epistemological ones (what *is* matter or inertia or gravity and how do we know?) upon which all the subsequent formulae and theories that can easily be proven to be true and factual in the world we live in on a daily basis ... at the core, there is just as much to "take on faith" as any religion.

No, I'm not saying that science is a religion, but what I am saying is that all human reality systems have the same seminal core: I believe that A, B, C is true.

If I believe that Aliens are going to get me, Aliens will probably get me. I don't pretend to know what Aliens *are* (at the core) because they seem to be a lot of things ... dependent on as you point out, time. The "when."

At the turn of the century, there were huge "airships" with strange humans on board. Yet, in several medieval paintings we can see the presentation of a flying, glowing disk in the sky. There are cave paintings that damn sure seem to show Grey Aliens.

I've tried to explain the idea of "other dimensions" by saying that they're all right here. Everything is here. I begin to expect that in a similar sense, everything is now.

... and I start to sound like a hippy psychology PhD.

I mentioned a Native American individual above that had helped me a lot in my thought on the subject, and Serdgiam, many of your words remind me so much of his ... and much of his world-view is based on a very clear relationship with mortality ... we are all "given a certain number of days by the Creator" is the way he says it, and nothing we can do will change that.

Yes, science is the best tool to deal with the objective (material) world we have, bar none. I can either pray or take an aspirin for my headache ... and while the prayer may work "some of the time" ... the aspirin will work 98% of the time.

And I guess that's my overall "place I'm at" with the subject of the thread here ... if "something" is trying to invade my home or take my children, I'm going to try secure my home to keep it out, if that doesn't work, I'll try to put a bullet in it, when that fails, I'll try other approaches, ending up at sprinkling salt or holy water or some damned thing.

Whatever it takes; whatever works.

edit on 25-4-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted

posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 07:18 PM
But's always so dramatic to say,

And I guess that's my overall "place I'm at" with the subject of the thread here ... if "something" is trying to invade my home or take my children, I'm going to try secure my home to keep it out, if that doesn't work, I'll try to put a bullet in it, when that fails, I'll try other approaches, ending up at sprinkling salt or holy water or some damned thing.

How about you just don't want to deal with it?
Didn't invite it into your life, don't care, not gonna care, we have the right to go thru life as a Human unadulterated by by anything non human, our personal space, home or apt is funded by us so we absolutely have the right to decide what uses that space...

You get the drift.

Doesn't matter it's purpose, doesn't even matter if it has no purpose.

It doesn't even have to "come after you or your children" that's to a degree irrelevant. It's enough that those experiences aren't your preference.

Just playing devil's advocate with this!

posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 09:32 PM
a reply to: Caver78

Oh, I get that too Caver. Serdgiam said it above we're always so damned sure.

I might innovate that to say that another problem is that we're always so damned serious.

It's always high-flown, chivalric language ... when in reality, after you've been scared by some Damned Thing popping it's head up over and over and over ... it's just another day. Or night.

And it's just tiring and frustrating. I get that too.

posted on Apr, 25 2017 @ 09:41 PM
a reply to: Gryphon66

Well, thats the interesting thing.. maybe the salt attracts different entities while repelling others. In this realm of exploration, we frequently operate on the basis that is constructed by the observed, "negative" behavior. The salt may be a bit like trading a tiger for the mongoose for the snakes. Far more devious, far more subtle/hidden, and far more dangerous.

That is, of course, if any of this has merit. My opinion on that is probably obvious by now (it has merit). Even if its all just creations of our mind(s), it would seem the avenues for action remain the same though.

I'd say the same rings true for something like climate change. Pretty much everybody can get behind incredible new technologies, more efficient environmental practices, and ingenious innovation.. But we spend our time trying to get everyone's motivations to line up before we take action. Now, jumping TOO far into this topic goes away from the OP, but I think the interesting similarity is that whether one believes in the "woo" or not, courses of action are surprisingly similar.

Plus, I have to watch myself because the entirety of my work involves the blending of ultra-efficient, advanced technology with nature and just plain 'ol clever thinking. Its far too easy for me to get distracted, but I feel very strongly that the conflict between technology and nature is by our own making alone. Not only can they be complementary, but they can supplement each other so well, that the sum grows exponentially greater than the parts.

Now, I think that the state of the defenders mind is the first step, followed by the barrier system previously described.

That barrier system has an incredible amount of depth. I see it as combining ye olde fort design with runes or just general symbols, all "walked out." But, if possible, one can also construct the building itself in the same way and I don't see why it couldn't be scaled up (think city-size).

If one is caught in an active conflict, I think preparation makes a big difference. I feel some martial arts, in their original and pure form (whatever that is), may be apt, albeit outdated. I don't think the similarities in the aspects of honing the mind are coincidence, but may have had conflict on other levels explicitly in mind (
). Even today, we talk about "battles" in this sense (emotional or mental), but I think it might have been a bit more literal and less philosophical.

The barrier stuff solved any issue I had with unwelcome experiences, but I also ended up adapting my martial arts experience with more modern weapons like firearms. This was all before I got sick, so I didn't have years to really master it (only about 5). But I still think about it a lot in regards to this topic. Iaijutsu is surprisingly easy to adapt to a firearm.
edit on 25-4-2017 by Serdgiam because: I'd have gotten away with that smiley working correctly, if it weren't for those meddling kids

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