Jesus view on homosexuality and civil law

a reply to: Agartha

I am not addressing "interpretation" which is a utterly subjective matter.

I have quoted on two occassions what Jesus ostensibly said as recorded in the Gospels.

/shrug

a reply to: amazing

Yes, it's clear, the law still stands and will be used to judge those outside of Christ with.
The law is valid for those who don't accept Jesus

If a person accepts Jesus, accepts forgiveness, lives according to the new two laws, "love God love each other", then they are redeemed from the OT Law in Jesus

Turn to Christ or be judged

That's christianity

No one is denying the OT laws and their severity, that God doesn't believe in justice, that there is a maelstrom on the horizon
In fact we are to warn people that what was before is coming again

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: amazing

Yes, it's clear, the law still stands and will be used to judge those outside of Christ with.
The law is valid for those who don't accept Jesus

If a person accepts Jesus, accepts forgiveness, lives according to the new two laws, "love God love each other", then they are redeemed from the OT Law in Jesus

Turn to Christ or be judged

That's christianity

No one is denying the OT laws and their severity, that God doesn't believe in justice, that there is a maelstrom on the horizon
In fact we are to warn people that what was before is coming again

That, coupled with your usual condemnatory tone, is a sublimely accurate example of your duplicity and hypocrisy. You espouse kindness and gentility, forgiveness and 'love', but every time anyone asks for more info, you insult them and claim they are damned.

Do you realize that you do that?

Or, if not, would you please take the time to show me how that is not the case?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Come on buzz, its not duplicity or hypocrisy.


I am not addressing you in the thread, I am addressing christians
I dont do anything more than explain what is written

I didnt write the book
It is what it is, not what I made it

I dont condemn anyone, I read what is written and explain it
God has promised a final judgement, not me
God will condemn those opposed to Him, not me
God has commanded me to love, I try, I do try, its not my nature so I have to work hard on that

As for God, He has told humanity that He is the God of justice. Justice is necessary, He cant be a just God and not excercise the law and judgement

Anyway, when it comes to condemnatory tones you are pretty good yourself.

As for moralising whats right and wrong, who are you to decide whats acceptable and not?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
You discussed it for years, discussed t?
Way to grow and learn
It seems clear you discussed it with another person who didn't know what they believed either

You are so nasty and judgmental that if Jesus was really up there welcoming people, you'd be sent back due to how you treat others with disdain. You have a nasty soul and it shows in every thread on this forum.

And especially nasty with female members, I must say, which indicates a typical Old Testament mysoginist behaviour.

Agartha, you are not a belieber but preach at others, why?

Once again I am not preaching, I am discussing. You either keep on saying this on purpose due to your wicked nasty trollish nature, or you have a limited English vocabulary and don't understand the enormous difference between 'preaching' and 'discussing'.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I have quoted on two occassions what Jesus ostensibly said as recorded in the Gospels.

And so have I. Clear as rain.

a reply to: Agartha

I find it amazing, you an atheist agnostic whatever, condemning me as if you are God and then telling me what I say is wrong
You are the one doing the condemning Agartha

And then You say what I say is wrong as a Christian and you not a Christian telling me you are the one who knows more
It's absurd

I am sorry you can't see that

And no, you are not discussing, you are saying you know more about the subject

Gryphon has a better comprehension of my position than you and I wouldn't blame him if he hated all christians
How does Gryphon understand and you don't
I have a feeling Gryphon has done a lot of study, more than just discussing it with friends

It's a pity you have gotten so upset with me, it's normal though in these discussions, people don't like being questioned or have their beliefs upset by others. Nobody likes being told no.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Jesus only taught Christians one message
Love
Not judgement
Not civil unrest, not anti homosexuality
Jesus and the apostles never fought against civil law, never fought slavery, never fought against Rome.
Christians are not moralisers, not the oppressors, not judges.
Christ taught Christians to love, even those we disagree with us.

If someone chooses to live a life contrary to christianity then that's their choice, free will, a gift from God

On marriage, it's not a christians buisness to decide for another individual what is right or wrong
Jesus taught us to love others, irrespective

For God so loved the world

sigh.... there are so many things wrong with this. you should try maybe educating yourself...
I'm guessing that you're saying that he wasn't anti-homosexuality because he never explicitly mentioned it. Of courae, the only way we can pretend to know that is through the Bible, which is the only record of his teachings. And the Bible DOES explicitly say that it is wrong. Meaning that you have to do some pretty extreme mental gymnastics to somehow convince yourself that Jesus approved of it while ignoring that the Bible did not. You're basing your point upon a source that you simultaneously want to ignore. I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way.
Secondly, Jesus did explicitly teach that people are either supposed to be either married, or single and celibate,l. He also explicitly states that marriage is only for a man and a woman. Therefore, its pretty damn obvious that he was anti-homosexuality. Unless you consider teaching that homosexuals should never ever have sex or get married to be somehow pro-homosexuality. Which would he stupid.
Third, saying anything about Christian god and live is very silly, considering some of the other teachings of the Bible. Stoning a disobedient child to death, is that love? Selling your daughter into slavery, I'd that love? Fighting infidels, is that love? because these are all things mentioned in the bible, and there's much more where that came from.
Fourth, saying that Christians are not maralisers, jufges, or oppressors is legitimately one of the dumbest and most inaccurate comments i have ever read, and shows a blatant ignorance of human history.
Finally: jesus probably didn't exist, and the Bible is full of lies. So it's all moot.
The End.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
This thread is addressed to christians
Jesus taught Christians to love
Jesus taught forgiveness
Jesus didn't teach civil law

Why does that cause you so much anger krazy

Interestingly. I thought I was agreeing with you...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Agartha


And then You say what I say is wrong as a Christian and you not a Christian telling me you are the one who knows more
It's absurd

you don't have to be a Christian in order to have studied the Bible and be familiar with what it says, you raging moron. You have to be almost impressively dense to somehow be incapable of understanding that. You don't have a superior authority on the bible just by virtue of calling yourself a Christian. in fact, most self-identified Christians that I've met know next to nothing about the bible, aside from the childish and often inaccurate lessons they were taught in Sunday school as a child.
And you obviously are not very knowledgeable on the subject. When they say you're wrong... it's because you are.

a reply to: Maroboduus

You do know that the early Christian churches did gay marriages right? I mean these are the churches that existed RIGHT after Jesus' death.

originally posted by: yuppa

Cant God change his mind? Of course he can.

this is legitimately one of the dumbest comments I have ever read.
No. No, he cannot change his mind. A supposedly perfect, omniscient, and omnipotent being, by definition, cannot change its mind. If a being is perfect and knows everything, he should be utterly incapable of changing his mind, because he already knows everything and his mind is perfect. it is not only unnecessary but impossible for a perfect and omniscient being toto ever change his mind. good grief... what an incredibly stupid comment. get a clue.

I think there is some confusion between our judgement and God's Judgement. God certainly makes judgements on morality; homosexuality clearly being one of them.

That said, it is not our place to enact judgement on others, it is God's place. He gives us free will - to accept His morality or not. It is each individual's choice where they will stand. It is not our place to judge someone for the choice they make. That doesn't make their choices right or moral.

originally posted by: glad_to_be_His
I think there is some confusion between our judgement and God's Judgement. God certainly makes judgements on morality; homosexuality clearly being one of them.

According to.....

That said, it is not our place to enact judgement on others, it is God's place.

So, doesn't that mean you should shove off and leave the area? Then you won't have to be irritated or enraged or aroused by what the folks are doing....

He gives us free will - to accept His morality or not.

And free will to accept the writings of men or not.

It is each individual's choice where they will stand.

YEP

It is not our place to judge someone for the choice they make.

Spot on, mate. Exactly right. De veras. Yes.

That doesn't make their choices right or moral.

It also doesn't make your choices right or moral. Leave them alone and focus on your own self.

originally posted by: Maroboduus

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Agartha


And then You say what I say is wrong as a Christian and you not a Christian telling me you are the one who knows more
It's absurd

you don't have to be a Christian in order to have studied the Bible and be familiar with what it says, you raging moron. You have to be almost impressively dense to somehow be incapable of understanding that. You don't have a superior authority on the bible just by virtue of calling yourself a Christian. in fact, most self-identified Christians that I've met know next to nothing about the bible, aside from the childish and often inaccurate lessons they were taught in Sunday school as a child.
And you obviously are not very knowledgeable on the subject. When they say you're wrong... it's because you are.

LOL! And just WOW another bible scholar. Oh so do tell us professor how a brain surgeon like yourself reads it!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: kaylaluv

Not only that ... the concept that God is a Heavenly Father to be "loved, with all the heart and mind and being" is a stark contrast to the hateful, vindictive God as portrayed in the Torah ...

Mileages they say vary.

LOL! A match for all you bible "otherwise" know it alls with your keen eye for strange renderings then. One never sees the level of hatefulness out of christians on ATS than you self appoint critical lot.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

originally posted by: glad_to_be_His
I think there is some confusion between our judgement and God's Judgement. God certainly makes judgements on morality; homosexuality clearly being one of them.

According to.....

That said, it is not our place to enact judgement on others, it is God's place.

So, doesn't that mean you should shove off and leave the area? Then you won't have to be irritated or enraged or aroused by what the folks are doing....

He gives us free will - to accept His morality or not.

And free will to accept the writings of men or not.

It is each individual's choice where they will stand.

YEP

It is not our place to judge someone for the choice they make.

Spot on, mate. Exactly right. De veras. Yes.

That doesn't make their choices right or moral.

It also doesn't make your choices right or moral. Leave them alone and focus on your own self.

Why are you so spiteful Buzz

Nobody is making you believe, you dont have to act like that

This whole thread was not about "Leave them alone and focus on your own self."
It was about loving others who dont accept Christ

and you march in with hate speech, criticism, anger, spitefulness and your arrogance.

You are as bad as any christian fundamentalist I have met

Just why?

reply @ RaggedyMan

Why are you so spiteful Buzz

Nobody is making you believe, you dont have to act like that

This whole thread was not about "Leave them alone and focus on your own self."
It was about loving others who dont accept Christ

and you march in with hate speech, criticism, anger, spitefulness and your arrogance.

I did what?

You are as bad as any christian fundamentalist I have met

Really?

Just why?

I have no response for that, as it is a ridiculous fallacy.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

originally posted by: TzarChasm
all of the complications and confusion stems from the simple fact that they attempted to revamp the OT with more politically correct packaging and a fresh PR blast intended to help people forget the less savory incarnation of the judaic laws and the supernatural tyrant who inspired them, but they just couldnt bury the old edition without sacrificing critical groundwork for the new testament. and now people keep trying to bridge the two versions without compromising either of them, and it has had very mixed results except for those well trained in cognitive dissonance. my advice: become a casual buddhist. problem solved.

dude where you been

took a healthy hiatus from the site. I wander back around every now and then.

a reply to: Raggedyman

On marriage, it's not a christians buisness to decide for another individual what is right or wrong
Jesus taught us to love others, irrespective

Jesus in his wisdom also said a man who divorces his wife and remarries is guilty of adultery

Sounds like Jesus decided for other individuals what is right and wrong

Pretty sure he didn't approve of gay marriage either.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Link?

Iirc Christians, despite their theological flaws, have always upheld traditional man/woman marriages.

Sure there are a few churches that perform gay marriages these days but its a very new phenomenon

In the bible, God says to put homosexuals to death

If "Christians" think God is OK with homosexuals "marrying", they are in for a surprise.