Jesus view on homosexuality and civil law

a reply to: kaylaluv

Not only that ... the concept that God is a Heavenly Father to be "loved, with all the heart and mind and being" is a stark contrast to the hateful, vindictive God as portrayed in the Torah ...

Mileages they say vary.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: SoulSurfer

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 22:37-40

Concise outline of Gods commands to christians in the New Covenant
And this additionally, if you dont mind, as well

Matthew 6:14. For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


Luke 6:38. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.

It also speaks against desires of the flesh. In this case we are all under sin. Homosexuality is lust of flesh. Same goes for many of the flesh's nature aka the Carnal Mind which rebels against the spirit of God. Only when we choose to walk in spirit and leave flesh behind will we actually be saved.

God is not the one that will punish. That will be Lucifer's Job. Only 144,000 will not be touched because they will be in spirit. Those that do not walk in spirit will be claimed by the queen of the damned. It is not God's fault that humanity chose this. This is the ultimate truth and the fate that awaits those that lust after false treasures.



Queen of the Damned, Scarlet, Void Lilith/Lucifer. She is "the end".

a reply to: SoulSurfer

I was discussing orthodox christianity
Please feel free to start your own thread in relation to your faith

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: SoulSurfer

I was discussing orthodox christianity
Please feel free to start your own thread in relation to your faith

I was talking truth, and correcting those who are in error. In this case you. I was correcting your error. True Christianity is following what Jesus said.

a reply to: Raggedyman

An unmarried dude living during a time when being unmarried was weird who also hung out with 12 dudes. Yeah I'm pretty sure that Jesus didn't care about gays.

Fun fact: The early Christian churches performed gay marriages.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Raggedyman


On marriage, it's not a christians buisness to decide for another individual what is right or wrong
Jesus taught us to love others, irrespective

For God so loved the world

Strange you would say that because He did say about divorce, the idea and the legal judgment had no place at the beginning and was clear that man and woman were involved in the edict of marriage. If you are suggesting that christians cannot comment on ideas out side of these definitions you are simply not looking at what He said.

Jesus had FAR more disdain for divorce than he did for the makeup of a marriage. He spoke extensively about his dislike of divorce. Meanwhile, you have to read into Jesus' words to get your conclusion about his thoughts on homosexuality here.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Pics or it didn't happen

Typical skip offer tons of other verses Jesus taught.Classic bible scripture jumper.You got the love part down though.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So you are a non Christian preaching what you believe about Christianity at christians
Do you really think that is common sense, do you really think that's normal
I can not imagine how you can do that and expect an intelligent conversation

There you go again with your segregation, with your separating people into 'us' and 'them', so very Christ like!
/sarcasm/

I am an agnostic but I was a Christian for a good 35 years of my life, and even if I wasn't, I have every right to discuss religions, just like you discuss medical topics without being a health professional. Everybody should be free to engage in any discussions they like. Also, I am not preaching, I am discussing, big difference.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
What's interesting though, is that if you do what Jesus said and treat all others as you would want to be treated, those other commandments are pretty much taken care of. No one wants to be killed or stolen from or be cheated on or disrespected, etc.

What his two commandments does do away with are things that don't hurt anyone (like wearing clothes with more than one fabric, or eating shellfish, or getting a haircut, or being a homosexual). All Jesus did was boil it down to "be excellent" to others and you're fine.

But life is not black and white, for example, a woman who steals from her neighbour to feed her kids is not the same as somebody stealing for greed. Also, a mum killing to protect her family is not the same as a vicious killer. In these two cases loving others drove someone to steal and kill.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Perhaps you should make yourself aware of the actual wording of the myth before expounding on it?

I do, I told you I discussed all this for years, so please don't judge my knowledge based only on your assumptions, like Raggedyman does.

Yes, in the context of the tale as recorded in three of the Gospels, Jesus is saying that the Law and the Prophets (Torah) is fulfilled in those two Commandments, and in other locations, he claimed that he coming also FULFILLED the requirements of the Law, thus leading many Christians to claim they are subject to God's grace not the Law.

But this is your interpretation, millions of Christians believe differently, and who can say which interpretation is right? Even on this very thread we have Christians disagreeing with each other.

Many rely on the words of Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:17-18) when said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. With this they believe Jesus did not come to oppose the law of the OT, or to ignore it and forget it, but rather to fulfill it as in to obey it and bring it to fruition. Hence why millions of Christians still follow parts of the NT.

And God and Jesus are not confirming which side is correct, perhaps you are, perhaps those with a different view are, we just don't know.

(PS, not only am I not a Christian, I'm gay. I see that you're grinding an areligious axe. That's a waste of your time.)

I'm not gay, but I believe in equality regardless of sexual preferences, ethnicity, religion etc. I stopped being a Christian after reading the Bible, and discussing it. Too many contradictions and too many cruel rules in both OT and NT.

a reply to: Agartha

I judged your statement based on your statement. How does how "long you've discussed it" make any difference?

Here are the quotes from the three relevant Gospels

Gospel of Matthew

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. — Matthew 22:35-40

Gospel of Mark

And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. — Mark 12:28-31

Gospel of Luke

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. — Luke 10:25-28

Summary:

Love God with everything you have; love others as you love yourself.

Matthew: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Mark: There is none other commandment greater than these.

Luke: [T]his do, and thou shalt live.

It can't get much plainer than that.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You are not listening: just because you interpret the NT so, it doesn't mean you are correct as millions of Christians interpret it differently. Let me explain again:

Matthew 5:17-18, Sermon on the Mountain.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

I repeat, millions of Christians interpret the above as: Jesus did not come to abolish the law of the OT, did not come to oppose the law, ignore the law and forget the law.

They interpret the above as he came to fulfill the law of the OT, he came to obey the law, to bring it to fruition.

You may not see it that way, but millions of Christians do (some even on this forum). You interpret the NT and see it and believe it one way. Others interpret it, see it and believe it differently. There's no way to tell who is right.

It can't get much clearer than that.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

We know that's just silly because homosexuality in Israel was punishable by death.
The Romans had outlawed death sentences performed by Judaism unless the civil authority agreed

Again, nonsense krazy, but I expect nothing more

Irrespective, lets remain on topic, you and TD always show up to steer a thread away from its point

This thread is addressed to christians
Jesus taught Christians to love
Jesus taught forgiveness
Jesus didn't teach civil law

Why does that cause you so much anger krazy

a reply to: Raggedyman

So you're gatekeeping so people like us don't post things from your books about how your god and Jesus aren't all loving and caring, like you said they were?

Here's a little reminder of the "love" and "caring" you christians and god are.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
The christian god is such a nice god. He loves and cares sooooooooo much!

Let's have a look at the loving and caring, shall we?

Rape is fine.
Genesis 19:8
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Beating slaves is ok if they live a day or two after the beating.
Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.

Actually, slavery is just fine and so are the beatings.
Leviticus 25:44-45
And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have — from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves. Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.

1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

The christian god doesn't like anyone who has been injured either.
Deuteronomy 23:1
He who is emasculated by crushing or mutilation shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

Leviticus 21:18-19
For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long, a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch.

But I forgot. Your god is such a caring and loving thing.

a reply to: Agartha

Yes it is christlike, Christians are called to come out of the world


You discussed it for years, discussed t?
Way to grow and learn
It seems clear you discussed it with another person who didn't know what they believed either

You stopped believing because there are to many rules and contradictions?
You don't believe at all
and you are telling me what I have to believe even though you don't believe, really.

I am not gay either, I don't believe in equality, it's clear there isn't any in this world. I believe in love, unconditional, inclusive love

Don't you see something wrong with that trail of logic Agartha

a reply to: Agartha

Agartha, you are not a belieber but preach at others, why?

For those in Christ there is no law except to love, those outside of Christ, the law wil be used to judge them
Please feel free to make up an argument supporting your non belief and explain it


I don't go around telling Buddhist, Hindus or even atheists how to practice their faith.
I was once an atheist, I still don't tell atheists how to do their religion

Why are you telling christians what to believe when you say you don't believe

That's really strange

a reply to: Raggedyman

But he did say. to honor the old laws. I forget the verse and exact quote. No?

a reply to: Agartha

Jesus came to fulfill the law not abolish it. Jesus fulfilled the law
Those people who accept Jesus are also fulfilling the law through what Jesus offered and completed, they now receive Gods Grace, the price was paid by Christ to redeem them

Those outside of Christ will be judged by the law as they have no redeemer
They effectively choose not to believe or even not to accept Christ

If you have ever read the bible, studied the bible, discussed the teachings of the bible.
Put in the effort required, seeded and searched

Gryph, a non christian seems to understand christianity better than 80/90% of Christians I have known

a reply to: Raggedyman

Why do you need to be anything to understand a book?

Oh, that's right. Some of is up for interpretation. Some of it is literal and some not (yet Christians can't decide AMONGST THEMSELVES what is story and what is literal).

Yeah, no wonder you need faith to believe that a thing that allows rape, murder, slavery, beatings and number of other things is "loving and caring".

originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: Raggedyman

But he did say. to honor the old laws. I forget the verse and exact quote. No?

I don't remember reading that
Maybe
But what would be meant by honoring them
When some judaisers were telling new Christian converts to be circumcised, Paul told the judaisers to cut off their whole wedding tackle, the old law of circumcision was off the table. All food became acceptable.
Honor the old law but no need to keep it

I am not familiar with honoring the old laws for Christians anywhere

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: Raggedyman

But he did say. to honor the old laws. I forget the verse and exact quote. No?

I don't remember reading that
Maybe
But what would be meant by honoring them
When some judaisers were telling new Christian converts to be circumcised, Paul told the judaisers to cut off their whole wedding tackle, the old law of circumcision was off the table. All food became acceptable.
Honor the old law but no need to keep it

I am not familiar with honoring the old laws for Christians anywhere

Here's what I mean. 4 verses here and it appears to me to be Jesus saying to abide by all of the old testament laws.

THE LAW STANDS

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)