Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels on testosterone replacement therapy were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Given two adult males, in perfect health, there may be differences in testosterone levels, bone density, muscle development, etc.

Are you saying that all those things must be equal in order for people to participate in sport?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

Completely serious.

f the athlete in your example isn't cheating, what's the issue?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

Completely serious.

If the athlete in your example isn't cheating, what's the issue?

Testosterone replacement therapy -- or steroids for any medical reasons -- is now completely banned in the UFC because of Vitor Belfort. He was obviously cheating.

"Because a transboy is a boy. Testosterone therapy applied during puberty is not merely cosmetic."



That's your opinion. I would say a girl trapped in a boy's body. Still 100% girl. After therapy, a 100% girl with muscles and a mustache.

Are you calling girls who are naturally muscular and hairy actual boys? That seems kinda rude.

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

Completely serious.

If the athlete in your example isn't cheating, what's the issue?

Testosterone replacement therapy -- or steroids for any medical reasons -- are now completely banned in the UFC because of Vitor Belfort. He was obviously cheating.

Okay ... then did I misread this post from you?

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

I'm going off the last line in which you say it's very unlikely that Belfort was cheating. Now you're saying he was.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

Completely serious.

If the athlete in your example isn't cheating, what's the issue?

Testosterone replacement therapy -- or steroids for any medical reasons -- are now completely banned in the UFC because of Vitor Belfort. He was obviously cheating.

Okay ... then did I misread this post from you?

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

I'm going off the last line in which you say it's very unlikely that Belfort was cheating. Now you're saying he was.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels on testosterone replacement therapy were carefully monitored by a doctor. All of his tests showed normal levels. Obviously, he wasn't cheating by taking way too much testosterone.

Unless it's possible to cheat your testosterone level tests.

originally posted by: AutonomousMeatPuppet

"Because a transboy is a boy. Testosterone therapy applied during puberty is not merely cosmetic."



That's your opinion. I would say a girl trapped in a boy's body. Still 100% girl. After therapy, a 100% girl with muscles and a mustache.

Are you calling girls who are naturally muscular and hairy actual boys? That seems kinda rude.

You seem to want to argue your opinion against mine. Your last sentence is ridiculous and doesn't reflect anything I've said.

Further, my opinion is backed up by medical science and legal precedent ... what's yours supported by?

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

Completely serious.

If the athlete in your example isn't cheating, what's the issue?

Testosterone replacement therapy -- or steroids for any medical reasons -- are now completely banned in the UFC because of Vitor Belfort. He was obviously cheating.

Okay ... then did I misread this post from you?

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

I'm going off the last line in which you say it's very unlikely that Belfort was cheating. Now you're saying he was.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels on testosterone replacement therapy were carefully monitored by a doctor. All of his tests showed normal levels. Obviously, he wasn't cheating. Unless it's possible to cheat your testosterone level tests.

Giving someone prescribed steroids and making it legal for them to take them simply makes it too easy for anyone to cheat. Then the entire sport gets ruined for one person's problems.

Okay, if he wasn't cheating, what is the problem?

He was under the care of a doctor. His T level, gone untreated, would have caused him to be far below competitive level physically.

How is it that you see no difference between someone using T therapy that needs the treatment to be equal and someone using it to unfairly excel?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Further, my opinion is backed up by medical science and legal precedent ... what's yours supported by?

Vitor Belfort's medical condition was also backed up by medical science and legal precedent.

a reply to: RedDragon

Okay.

Was Vitor a seventeen year old transboy?

You say there's no difference between Vitor and Mack.

I say there is, obviously.

That seems to be the bone of our contention here.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

Completely serious.

If the athlete in your example isn't cheating, what's the issue?

Testosterone replacement therapy -- or steroids for any medical reasons -- are now completely banned in the UFC because of Vitor Belfort. He was obviously cheating.

Okay ... then did I misread this post from you?

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

I'm going off the last line in which you say it's very unlikely that Belfort was cheating. Now you're saying he was.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels on testosterone replacement therapy were carefully monitored by a doctor. All of his tests showed normal levels. Obviously, he wasn't cheating. Unless it's possible to cheat your testosterone level tests.

Giving someone prescribed steroids and making it legal for them to take them simply makes it too easy for anyone to cheat. Then the entire sport gets ruined for one person's problems.

Okay, if he wasn't cheating, what is the problem?

He was under the care of a doctor. His T level, gone untreated, would have caused him to be far below competitive level physically.

How is it that you see no difference between someone using T therapy that needs the treatment to be equal and someone using it to unfairly excel?

How do you tell the difference between someone taking the treatment to raise their testosterone levels to normal and someone taking it to raise their testosterone levels to ten times normal?

Do you do it with testosterone level tests that can be cheated?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

Okay.

Was Vitor a seventeen year old transboy?

You say there's no difference between Vitor and Mack.

I say there is, obviously.

That seems to be the bone of our contention here.

It boils down to one question: Why can't a transboy taking testosterone treatments do what Vitor did?

Obviously, they can.

No one with low testosterone levels and no transboys should be allowed to take steroids and compete because it's impossible to tell the difference between anyone taking normal testosterone medical doses and anyone taking ten times the medical doses.

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

Okay.

Was Vitor a seventeen year old transboy?

You say there's no difference between Vitor and Mack.

I say there is, obviously.

That seems to be the bone of our contention here.

It boils down to one question: Why can't a transboy taking testosterone treatments do what Vitor did?

Obviously, they can.

Why does it boil down to one question?

Again, someone like Mack is under the constant care of a physician. T levels are constantly monitored and recorded.

This information would be readily available to disprove that Mack is cheating.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

Okay.

Was Vitor a seventeen year old transboy?

You say there's no difference between Vitor and Mack.

I say there is, obviously.

That seems to be the bone of our contention here.

It boils down to one question: Why can't a transboy taking testosterone treatments do what Vitor did?

Obviously, they can.

Why does it boil down to one question?

Again, someone like Mack is under the constant care of a physician. T levels are constantly monitored and recorded.

This information would be readily available to disprove that Mack is cheating.

As I've already said ten times, Vitor Belfort was also under the constant care of a physician. His T levels were constantly monitored and recorded. They were always normal.

The information was readily available to disprove that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

And he showed that information to the athletic commission all the time while laughing at how dumb they were.

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

Completely serious.

If the athlete in your example isn't cheating, what's the issue?

Testosterone replacement therapy -- or steroids for any medical reasons -- are now completely banned in the UFC because of Vitor Belfort. He was obviously cheating.

Okay ... then did I misread this post from you?

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

I'm going off the last line in which you say it's very unlikely that Belfort was cheating. Now you're saying he was.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels on testosterone replacement therapy were carefully monitored by a doctor. All of his tests showed normal levels. Obviously, he wasn't cheating. Unless it's possible to cheat your testosterone level tests.

Giving someone prescribed steroids and making it legal for them to take them simply makes it too easy for anyone to cheat. Then the entire sport gets ruined for one person's problems.

Okay, if he wasn't cheating, what is the problem?

He was under the care of a doctor. His T level, gone untreated, would have caused him to be far below competitive level physically.

How is it that you see no difference between someone using T therapy that needs the treatment to be equal and someone using it to unfairly excel?

How do you tell the difference between someone taking the treatment to raise their testosterone levels to normal and someone taking it to raise their testosterone levels to ten times normal?

Do you do it with testosterone level tests that can be cheated?

You tell the difference by medical records.

Are you saying you think a physician treating Mack would lie?

Again, let's let Mack wrestle boys. When and if he's winning every match against boys as well, then perhaps that would be the time to look at the medical records to insure that he isn't cheating.

It seems ridiculous that Texas law insists on making high-school athletics so complicated.

a reply to: Gryphon66

A girl can be a boy is backed up by medical science and legal precedent? Apparently not in Texas.

Show me that the majority of doctors and judges agree with you and I would consider that actual precedence.

a reply to: RedDragon

I've read what you've written.

I've asked you as many times if rationally speaking you think that Vitor and Mack are the same.

You've said that they are, and I disagree with you, for what I feel are more than obvious reasons.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

If he wasn't cheating, then what's the problem?

Are you joking or are you serious?

Completely serious.

If the athlete in your example isn't cheating, what's the issue?

Testosterone replacement therapy -- or steroids for any medical reasons -- are now completely banned in the UFC because of Vitor Belfort. He was obviously cheating.

Okay ... then did I misread this post from you?

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

A transboy could use testosterone treatment to cheat, but under the care of a physician, T levels are carefully monitored ... so it seems very unlikely that a transboy under the care of a physician would be cheating.

If he was, the record would be right there.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels were carefully monitored by a physician. All of his tests showed normal testosterone levels. The record is right there.

It's very unlikely that Vitor Belfort was cheating.

I'm going off the last line in which you say it's very unlikely that Belfort was cheating. Now you're saying he was.

Vitor Belfort's testosterone levels on testosterone replacement therapy were carefully monitored by a doctor. All of his tests showed normal levels. Obviously, he wasn't cheating. Unless it's possible to cheat your testosterone level tests.

Giving someone prescribed steroids and making it legal for them to take them simply makes it too easy for anyone to cheat. Then the entire sport gets ruined for one person's problems.

Okay, if he wasn't cheating, what is the problem?

He was under the care of a doctor. His T level, gone untreated, would have caused him to be far below competitive level physically.

How is it that you see no difference between someone using T therapy that needs the treatment to be equal and someone using it to unfairly excel?

How do you tell the difference between someone taking the treatment to raise their testosterone levels to normal and someone taking it to raise their testosterone levels to ten times normal?

Do you do it with testosterone level tests that can be cheated?

You tell the difference by medical records.

Are you saying you think a physician treating Mack would lie?

Again, let's let Mack wrestle boys. When and if he's winning every match against boys as well, then perhaps that would be the time to look at the medical records to insure that he isn't cheating.

It seems ridiculous that Texas law insists on making high-school athletics so complicated.

Vitor Belfort's medical records were closely monitored and they proved that he wasn't cheating.