Transgender Boy Wins in First Round of Girls Wrestling Tournament

originally posted by: AutonomousMeatPuppet
a reply to: Gryphon66

A girl can be a boy is backed up by medical science and legal precedent? Apparently not in Texas.

Show me that the majority of doctors and judges agree with you and I would consider that actual precedence.

Texas law isn't known for conforming to medical science.

I'd be glad to point you to some resources so you can do research on your own. You can find the links to a multitude of medical, psychiatric, psychological and public health professional organizations' statements on trans issues earlier in this thread. You can find a host of legal references requiring transfolk to be treated as their gender rather than their birth sex by a simple Google search.

Somehow, though, I don't think any of that is going to change your mind. I'm certainly not trying to.

It's not hard to comprehend. Vitor Belford was under the supervision of a physician and still ended up with an obvious advantage.

No way schools should be allowing drugs in sports.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Ask the people who make discriminatory laws in Texas.

Now that Mack has won the Texas championship, will he be allowed to advance to the Regional and potentially, the National GIRLS competition? Maybe he will be forced to wrestle other boys at those levels?

originally posted by: AutonomousMeatPuppet
It's not hard to comprehend. Vitor Belford was under the supervision of a physician and still ended up with an obvious advantage.

No way schools should be allowing drugs in sports.

If everyone was honest, there would be no problem with men with low testosterone or transboys taking testosterone treatments.

Not everyone is honest.

If you're allowed to take steroids for medical conditions, people will abuse that as an easy way to get away with taking steroids.

The rules need to reflect that reality that cheaters exist.

The only way to get rid of the cheating is a complete blanket ban on all steroids for any reason.

The UFC tried to be tolerant and got abused for it. They learned their lesson the hard way.

This isn't a hypothetical or imaginary situation. I've provided a real world example of steroids for medical conditions being abused.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Ask the people who make discriminatory laws in Texas.

Now that Mack has won the Texas championship, will he be allowed to advance to the Regional and potentially, the National GIRLS competition? Maybe he will be forced to wrestle other boys at those levels?

From what I've read of the matter, Mack WANTS to wrestle other boys. Texas won't allow it.

I can't say what other states will do, nor which ones would be involved.

a reply to: RedDragon

You have provided a real world example of steroids for medical conditions being abused. I think I acknowledged that a few pages back.

I also said a few pages back that, at least in terms of the conversation you and I are having, the bone of contention seems to be that you think Vitor and Mack are in the same situation, and I don't think they are.

If I may say though ... thank you for a very reasonable, logical and fact-based discussion on the matter. That is exceedingly rare these days, and I really appreciate it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

You have provided a real world example of steroids for medical conditions being abused. I think I acknowledged that a few pages back.

I also said a few pages back that, at least in terms of the conversation you and I are having, the bone of contention seems to be that you think Vitor and Mack are in the same situation, and I don't think they are.

If I may say though ... thank you for a very reasonable, logical and fact-based discussion on the matter. That is exceedingly rare these days, and I really appreciate it.

The point is that their situation doesn't matter. What matters is the potential for cheating.

You ruin the sport for everyone just for one person.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Ask the people who make discriminatory laws in Texas.

Now that Mack has won the Texas championship, will he be allowed to advance to the Regional and potentially, the National GIRLS competition? Maybe he will be forced to wrestle other boys at those levels?

From what I've read of the matter, Mack WANTS to wrestle other boys. Texas won't allow it.

I can't say what other states will do, nor which ones would be involved.

Well, we will know soon..assuming that the STATE champion advances to the Regional level...as athletes do in other sports. I'm not familiar with how that works in the sport of wrestling.

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

You have provided a real world example of steroids for medical conditions being abused. I think I acknowledged that a few pages back.

I also said a few pages back that, at least in terms of the conversation you and I are having, the bone of contention seems to be that you think Vitor and Mack are in the same situation, and I don't think they are.

If I may say though ... thank you for a very reasonable, logical and fact-based discussion on the matter. That is exceedingly rare these days, and I really appreciate it.

The point is that their situation doesn't matter. What matters is the potential for cheating.

Alright, I see that is your concern.

I believe I've adequately described a scenario in which it would be very simple to prove whether Mack was cheating or not.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RedDragon

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RedDragon

You have provided a real world example of steroids for medical conditions being abused. I think I acknowledged that a few pages back.

I also said a few pages back that, at least in terms of the conversation you and I are having, the bone of contention seems to be that you think Vitor and Mack are in the same situation, and I don't think they are.

If I may say though ... thank you for a very reasonable, logical and fact-based discussion on the matter. That is exceedingly rare these days, and I really appreciate it.

The point is that their situation doesn't matter. What matters is the potential for cheating.

Alright, I see that is your concern.

I believe I've adequately described a scenario in which it would be very simple to prove whether Mack was cheating or not.

Vitor Belfort was in that exact simple scenario -- taking his testosterone treatments under the care of a physician and taking carefully monitored testosterone level tests -- and used them to prove that he wasn't cheating.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Ask the people who make discriminatory laws in Texas.

Now that Mack has won the Texas championship, will he be allowed to advance to the Regional and potentially, the National GIRLS competition? Maybe he will be forced to wrestle other boys at those levels?

From what I've read of the matter, Mack WANTS to wrestle other boys. Texas won't allow it.

I can't say what other states will do, nor which ones would be involved.

Well, we will know soon..assuming that the STATE champion advances to the Regional level...as athletes do in other sports. I'm not familiar with how that works in the sport of wrestling.

Yes, I guess we will. If I were predicting the outcome here, I would guess that, contrary to good reasoning, trans athletes will be excluded from competition with the justification that RedDragon and MeatPuppet are arguing.

I said that the first time I heard about Mack. I still don't think it's fair or right.

a reply to: RedDragon

Yes, but Vitor is not a 17 year old transboy.

Let me say it this way ... the baseline difference is important here.

a reply to: Gryphon66

What about a boy taking estrogen and competes as a girl?

newyork.cbslocal.com... angyot-alaska-track/

It's a good intention, but it's just not going to work.

She is still a she, just a mutilated she now with pretend parts. All the testosterone injections in the world aint going to change that.

Amazing that if I chose to cut off my arms and legs tomorrow because I felt like I was an amputee trapped in a limbed persons body people would say I was insane, mentally ill.
But if I choose to castrate myself, I'll be applauded and praised.

Intelligent species? Yeah believing that less and less these days.

On the main topic though, wouldn't this be the hormone equivalent a sports person taking steroids? She like Pinnochio wants to be a real boy, so why is she still wrestling girls? Why are those in charge allowing it?

Honestly seems people want to be treated a certain way or equal only when it suits them, when it gives them an advantage over others.

Oh well tomorrow I am going to identify as Woman, it's ladies night at the local bar and I want cheap drinks.

originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo
She is still a she, just a mutilated she now with pretend parts. All the testosterone injections in the world aint going to change that.

Amazing that if I chose to cut off my arms and legs tomorrow because I felt like I was an amputee trapped in a limbed persons body people would say I was insane, mentally ill.
But if I choose to castrate myself, I'll be applauded and praised.

Intelligent species? Yeah believing that less and less these days.

On the main topic though, wouldn't this be the hormone equivalent a sports person taking steroids? She like Pinnochio wants to be a real boy, so why is she still wrestling girls? Why are those in charge allowing it?

Honestly seems people want to be treated a certain way or equal only when it suits them, when it gives them an advantage over others.

Oh well tomorrow I am going to identify as Woman, it's ladies night at the local bar and I want cheap drinks.

You are mistaken. Mack hasn't had any surgeries. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good ol' transphobic rant though.

I do understand that you're just expressing your opinion, which you certainly have a right to do.

My opinion is, in this case, what you've said is based on a ridiculous level of errors, lies and ignorance and is only intended to be insulting, divisive and hurtful.

Haha I just saw this roided up girl just won state 😂That hilariously awkward moment that libs are going through trying to justify this and balance feminism, fairness and LGBT issues. The mental gymnastics will be a joy to watch.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yeah, if it's required by law in one particular state it somehow ceases to be sleazy and somewhat perverted.

You...you're right!

originally posted by: avgguy
Haha I just saw this roided up girl just won state 😂That hilariously awkward moment that libs are going through trying to justify this and balance feminism, fairness and LGBT issues. The mental gymnastics will be a joy to watch.

You don't have to wait.

Read the thread.

originally posted by: HeathenJessie
a reply to: Gryphon66

Yeah, if it's required by law in one particular state it somehow ceases to be sleazy and somewhat perverted.

You...you're right!

What is "sleazy" and "somewhat perverted'" again?

I wish I was born earlier. This is a world I don't want to live in.