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originally posted by: uncommitted
originally posted by: Logarock
originally posted by: uncommitted
originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: uncommitted
Really? A guy from one of the named nations lost his passport at work the other day. I found it. It was some sort of indefinite stay visa......who need to become a citizen then? Who is issuing this crap status paper work. Just wait this the administration starts getting around to these other than "green card" visas.
Sorry, I have no idea what your point is. Even under Trump at the moment as far as I'm aware, people currently in the US wouldn't be deported if they had a legal right to be there - or do you think he hasn't gone far enough yet? Where precisely would you like him to stop?
Ok you don't see then how sloppy it looks to be granting wide open visas, endless stay visas? One could live here for the rest of their life without becoming a citizen......but not true of their children.......ect. Does that need to be explained further? And just how many of these visas are operating in this country?
No, I meant I didn't understand the point as the EO didn't have an impact on people already in the US. The visa is presumably legal and again presumably your employers worked to ensure your co-worker had it as they consider the person valuable to them. As they are already in the US, they aren't subject to the EO.
Not sure which bit of that you didn't understand.
originally posted by: fleabit
It's still pointless - it will absolutely affect a lot of people and businesses. How many attacks do you really feel this will stop? I am guessing it will stop as many attacks, as we have had from peoples of those banned countries since 9/11. Or in other words.. none. Any attacks by muslims in our country since then have been by citizens of the U.S.
It's a waste of time and resources. It's utterly pointless. It strengthens our enemies, and weakens ties with allies. It devides the U.S. You will never convince me that this will have had ANY effect, whatsoever, on the "war on terror" within our own borders.
A new report shows a significant rise in Muslim immigration to the US. The Pew Forum has analyzed the results and found that over the past 20 years, around one million immigrants have been granted permanent residency status every year. Sometimes they are able to obtain this status because they are family members of other residents, while other times they get work visas, are refugees and asylum seekers, or they have won a visa lottery. But as the report shows, where they are coming from is changing. Whereas before, there were more arriving from Europe and other parts of North America as well as South America, now those numbers are decreasing while those from Asia, Africa and the Middle East are increasing
State Department and Homeland Security data reveals that the United States already admits more than a quarter of a million Muslim migrants each year
tell that to european countries facing a crisis.
originally posted by: Xcathdra
Most claims about Trump’s visa Executive Order are false or misleading
You should read the actual EO, because most of the media and leftist pundits either have not or are lying if they have.
There are some stark policy differences about immigration and refugees over which people can disagree — those were argued at length during the election season. But the hyperbole and frenzy being exhibited in the media and by leftist pundits is hyperbole at best, fakery and lying at worst.
There is a postponement of entry from 7 countries (Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen) previously identified by the Obama administration as posing extraordinary risks. That they are 7 majority Muslim countries does not mean there is a Muslim ban, as most of the countries with the largest Muslim populations are not on the list (e.g., Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Nigeria and more).
Thus, the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world is not affected.
Moreover, the “ban” is only for four months while procedures are reviewed, with the exception of Syria for which there is no time limit.
There is a logic to the 7 countries. Six are failed states known to have large ISIS activity, and one, Iran, is a sworn enemy of the U.S. and worldwide sponsor of terrorism.
And, the 7 countries on the list were not even so-designated by Trump. Rather, they were selected last year by the Obama administration as posing special risks for visa entry, as even CNN concedes in passing:
click link for article as well as link to the actual EO.
As has been pointed out, and ignored, is the lies the media and the left are pushing on this topic. Ignorance is a choice so here is the info to set the record straight.
The rest is up to you.
False Points corrected in the article
* - Trump Business Connections
An offshoot of the “Muslim ban” claim is the claim that Trump deliberately excluded countries in which he does business.This argument is made in order to claim Muslims are targeted even though most of the Muslim world is not affected.
* - It’s an Absolute Ban
The “ban” is not without exceptions. There are categories of visa holders who still may enter even from those 7 countries. Also, the EO allows exceptions on a case by case basis from those 7 countries.
* - This Ends Refugees Coming to the U.S.
There is a halt to refugee processing, but it is temporary, for 120 days. Moreover, for people already going through the process, this is merely a delay not an ending, because they can resume processing once the system restarts in 120 days:
* - Anti-Muslim Discrimination
There are accusations that one particular provision discriminates. It gives preference to those fleeing religious persecution in countries in which they are a religious minority. This is being referred to as a de facto discrimination against Muslims because it mostly applies to Christians.
Well, that’s because Christians are the most persecuted religion in the Middle East, by Muslims. If there were a country in which Muslims were persecuted by another majority religion, they would get preference.In fact, this religious persecution test has long been the case in refugee cases, but has been twisted to discriminate against Christians, as this September 2016 column by Eliott Abrams explained:
* - Dual Nationals
The EO does apply to dual nationals, but not in the way people imply, suggesting U.S. citizens would be barred from reentry.Dual nationals who are U.S. citizens are not affected. The EO only applies to dual nationals from the 7 countries who travel on the passport of another (non-U.S.) country. The Wall Street Journal explains:
* - Green Card Holders
There are reports that holders of Green Cards from those 7 countries may not enter the U.S. This is partially true, but it will be handled on a case-by-case basis, according to CBS News:
* - Detentions, ETC.
There are anecdotal reports of people being detained while trying to enter the U.S., or pulled off planes, or not allowed to board. It’s hard to know whether these reports — if true — are the result of policy or confusion. As with any large bureaucratic endeavor, there seems to be administrative confusion, as the NY Times reported in a story recounting some of these reports.
* - Syrian Refugees
It is true that Syrians seeking refugee status are barred entry, and that there is no current time limit on that. Rather, resumption will take place only after security assurance are in place:
* - Conclusion: Policy Differences Don’t Justify Fake News
It is possible to criticize the EO and Trump visa/refugee policy without hyperbole and fakery. That opponents feel the need to make false and misleading accusations is a signal that they fear losing the policy argument on its merits.
* - CNN - Executive order complete