Satan Wasnt Thrown Out Of Heaven

Originally posted by favouriteslave

Southern Cross

Try reading Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the lord do all these things.



Supposing God is the creator of all and knows everything. He knowing created Satan as an angel who would fall. Knowingly created a man and women who would also fall.

Maybe he doesn't know everything? Why create anything at all knowing you would have to punish it? Somethings wrong with that idea.

God created man so man could "praise Him" everyday...

this sounds like God is a glory hog huh???

God also created man so man could go to heaven or hell (instead of not existing at all)...

so He knew satan would back-stab Him so He could SEND him to hell so bad people will be able to go to Hell...

he created man knowing they would fail in order for people to go to Heaven or Hell...

Supposing God is the creator of all and knows everything. He knowing created Satan as an angel who would fall. Knowingly created a man and women who would also fall.

What do you people do? Just sit around and read the Bible just to find things to twist and pervert? Try studying what you read in the Bible. One of the meanings of the Hebrew word RA is adversity or calamity, not exactly evil as it is commonly used. He is saying here that he made sorrow and wretchedness the fruits of sin. So God is not the Author of sin.

Satan is doing god's work just as Jesus did? The stick and the carrot.

Sorry I just got past the first page. This theory Jonna stated is well shown in John Milton's "Paradise Lost". The Devil is merely a player of God. He himself is a tortured soul and only works for God. If one believes in a reward, then their must be a punishment. Satan does this for God.

On another note, Hell is just the absence of God, but if Satan rules this inferno then you are not absence of God.

There is no devil. In the bible it says the phrase "the Satan" a couple of times. Satan means an antagagonist kind of. The satan of Christianity is the satan of the book of Job. He is an angel in charge of overseeing humanity. He's actually on God's side, but is jealous and selfish. He thinks that Job doesn't really love God, so God allows him to make life miserable for Job to prove that he wouldn't curse him. "The Satan" thinks that humanity isn't deserving of God's compassion. He points out peoples' sins. When the bible mentions "the Satan," it doesn't always mean the same person or angel.

Originally posted by Croat56
Let me try to explain this. The Devil is evil. He was kicked out for disobeying God. He now runs hell. He loves to torture people so he makes us do bad things in this life so that we will be sent to hell and torture us. Then when the apocolypse happens he will gather all the souls he has taken and try to destroy God.

I know me and you are usually on the same side, but thats not totally accurate.

Satan, or called by his proper name, Lucifer was created in exact likeness to God. He was bannished from heaven along with the angles that followed him (1/3 i believe). He was banished from heaven not because he dissobeyed god, but because he wanted to be God.. Becaus he was created in EXACT likeness to God, he felt he should be God. That is why he was bannished.

But then God does not hate Lucifer, or he would ahve Destroyed him; so even in the most dire of times, God still loves his creations.

All i believe Satan represents is a choice.. weather that choice is right or wrong depends on our morals, not on 'God' or 'Satan'.

Its a choice, whithought "satan" (a choice), our lives probably wouldnt be good. Hell withought being able to choose, we would have forums like this.

I doubt that people that go to hell are punished for thier crimes... If that was true then why do people do evil.... and wouldnt that mean that Lucifer was HELPING God?

Religion is Bizzare.. But If I had the choice, I'd still chose to Believe.

Originally posted by eslag90
There is no devil. In the bible it says the phrase "the Satan" a couple of times. Satan means an antagagonist kind of. The satan of Christianity is the satan of the book of Job. He is an angel in charge of overseeing humanity. He's actually on God's side, but is jealous and selfish. He thinks that Job doesn't really love God, so God allows him to make life miserable for Job to prove that he wouldn't curse him. "The Satan" thinks that humanity isn't deserving of God's compassion. He points out peoples' sins. When the bible mentions "the Satan," it doesn't always mean the same person or angel.

Very Interesting.. I will look that up sometime..

Like i said above, Satan Probably works for God.. So then technically, i agree with you

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me
I wouldnt say punishing, exactly.

My thoughts are if he does exist, the myth/fairytale about him is he is the nagging voice in the back of your mind to do wrong. He is a tempter, he wants to tempt so he can punish humans who were given free will. Free will being the greatest gift God gave ever. The fallen Angels in particularly Lucifer was "jealous" that God decided to give his best gift away to mere humans, when Angels were his first creations. The Fallen Angels felt they were more deserving, and were in line first for all of God's blessings/gifts.

Does this make sense?

-ADHDsux4me

The jelousy was not towards man but God himself , men are made to be punished as they are the creations held highest in Gods heart. The free will gift was given to Angles and they used it to rebell those of whom did, For it was said Lucifer desired those things of God , his power, his thrown , and authority and wished to assume the role being concieded enough to think himself as Good or better than God, he lusted for that which was the highest above all and it led to his being confined in hell for and he chose to punish God by destroying his most cherished creation by making them use their free will to turn away from God , It;s the whole underlying point to the upcoming battle of Meggido, its a battle for the souls of men , not to kill God for Lucifer knows this not to be possible , he must destroy man to get at God. Lucifer is willing to risk all to acomplish this goal and he knows he has a short time and he has befallen man with great fury as in the scripture.

Whoa, Oh Whoa to the inhabitants of the earth and he who dwell in them for the devil has come down from heaven , and he has great wrath for he knows he has but a short time.

See Lucifer has been told he will be permanently imprisioned in hell after the time of the gentiles , IE man. He in turn decided to wreck as much havok as possible before the inturment, and to take as many of the charished with him as he can.

[edit on 6/2/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me
I wouldnt say punishing, exactly.

He is a tempter, he wants to tempt so he can punish humans who were given free will. Free will being the greatest gift God gave ever. The fallen Angels in particularly Lucifer was "jealous" that God decided to give his best gift away to mere humans, when Angels were his first creations. The Fallen Angels felt they were more deserving, and were in line first for all of God's blessings/gifts.

Does this make sense?

-ADHDsux4me

I like That! awsome! You almost got it! EGO is the word....
Ego makes you act againsts your soul....always trust your own soul, it's your best friend and always here! A part of yourself thinks with the brain and the ego...another part is your soul, your heart! Listen to your heart....the dark will just go away! Ego created war, and everything that is bad on earth for milleniums....satan have ruled the world and it's coming to an end trust me bebe

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Just posted this on another thread, but it applies here, too. So I'll do a little copyin' and pastin'.

Jesus says that He was there when he saw the Devil get cast out of Heaven like a lightning bolt. There are many other references to the Devil, but this is the only one I've noticed that came from the mouth of Jesus. I could be wrong, though; I just happened to be reading through Luke when I saw this thread and Jesus's comment jumped out at me as a result.

Let he who has eyes

Haven't really followed this thread, so this point may have already been made. If it was, sorry! I was...uh...just reiterating, that's it

Originally posted by junglejake
Just posted this on another thread, but it applies here, too. So I'll do a little copyin' and pastin'.

Jesus says that He was there when he saw the Devil get cast out of Heaven like a lightning bolt. There are many other references to the Devil, but this is the only one I've noticed that came from the mouth of Jesus. I could be wrong, though; I just happened to be reading through Luke when I saw this thread and Jesus's comment jumped out at me as a result.

Let he who has eyes

Haven't really followed this thread, so this point may have already been made. If it was, sorry! I was...uh...just reiterating, that's it

I tryed to make this point not in these words but I dont know if it got through there is no response to my post yet. But I agree with you he who have eyes let him see he who have and ear let him listen and blessed is he who keeps and tells of the Heeds of God.,

[edit on 6/2/2005 by drbryankkruta]

excuse me for sounding stupid but whatever happens, isn't God obliged to forgive the devil for all wrong doings anyway? and if The Devil did not exist for whatever rreason then what purpose would religion serve... who would God protect us from? With out the Devil, would the concept of sin still exist?

Originally posted by Klepto
excuse me for sounding stupid but whatever happens, isn't God obliged to forgive the devil for all wrong doings anyway? and if The Devil did not exist for whatever rreason then what purpose would religion serve... who would God protect us from? With out the Devil, would the concept of sin still exist?

absolutely not the contract of forgivness was for man , Lucifer is and was punished before man and his fate is sealed without change, Lucifer is however making it worse on himself every soul he helps to turn from God , there by confirming an ongoing contempt for God, the sin of Lucifer was so high that nothing else can be achieved not even murder or blasphemers are as sinful as Lucifer,

[edit on 6/2/2005 by drbryankkruta]

[edit on 6/2/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by Klepto
excuse me for sounding stupid but whatever happens, isn't God obliged to forgive the devil for all wrong doings anyway? and if The Devil did not exist for whatever rreason then what purpose would religion serve... who would God protect us from? With out the Devil, would the concept of sin still exist?

God sent Christ to ave man from his sins. God is totally, 100% just, and has provided us forgiveness through His Son. This salvation is not Angelic, it's for us, humans. God's not even "obliged" to forgive us but those who follow His Son.

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"

I suppose I should not be so amazed at how few actually know the truth. They know the truth because the read the bible and serve God by the salvation brought by Christ.
If you want to talk about a biblical subject, dont you think its only logical to look for the bible for an answer?

Those of you who jump into this knowing its a biblical subject, but are ignorant of what the bible says, are just as ignorant as you think this subject is.
Not near as foolish though, as those who proclaim to have read, and know, and then say there is no firey hell, or satan.

If you want to know about something God created, then ask God. If you think you already know, then read the last chapter of Revelation.

On a technical note, hell is seen in the story about the Rich man and Lazerus.
Hell is not the Lake of Fire, to which most are referring to here.

Originally posted by jake1997
I suppose I should not be so amazed at how few actually know the truth. They know the truth because the read the bible and serve God by the salvation brought by Christ.
If you want to talk about a biblical subject, dont you think its only logical to look for the bible for an answer?

Those of you who jump into this knowing its a biblical subject, but are ignorant of what the bible says, are just as ignorant as you think this subject is.
Not near as foolish though, as those who proclaim to have read, and know, and then say there is no firey hell, or satan.

If you want to know about something God created, then ask God. If you think you already know, then read the last chapter of Revelation.

On a technical note, hell is seen in the story about the Rich man and Lazerus.
Hell is not the Lake of Fire, to which most are referring to here.

You know I really dislike it when people point out the bible references you ask about yet you are so blind to the writings you cant even see it when they tell you so , Lucifer was cast out of heaven their is obviously no way even thought people tell you the parts of the bible that we are going to get that accross so fine


Here are some scriptures read them


Isaiah 14:12-15
Ezekiel 28

in revelation again it is confirmed in the end that is in

Revelation 20:1-3 where Lucifer is bound and placed him in the bottomless pit again this is a verse that is confirmation Lucifer was cast out


[edit on 7/2/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by Klepto
excuse me for sounding stupid but whatever happens, isn't God obliged to forgive the devil for all wrong doings anyway?

No. I haven't seen anywhere in the Book to suggest He should or will.

Originally posted by Klepto
and if The Devil did not exist for whatever rreason then what purpose would religion serve...

To serve God and take care of each other (his 'children').

Originally posted by Klepto
who would God protect us from?

Our decisions to sin.

Originally posted by Klepto
With out the Devil, would the concept of sin still exist?

Yes. Anything we do that is not in God's favour is considered a sin.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Klepto
excuse me for sounding stupid but whatever happens, isn't God obliged to forgive the devil for all wrong doings anyway?

No. I haven't seen anywhere in the Book to suggest He should or will.

Originally posted by Klepto
and if The Devil did not exist for whatever rreason then what purpose would religion serve...

To serve God and take care of each other (his 'children').

Originally posted by Klepto
who would God protect us from?

Our decisions to sin.

Originally posted by Klepto
With out the Devil, would the concept of sin still exist?

Yes. Anything we do that is not in God's favour is considered a sin.

While sometimes saint when we cross there are disagreements in our points I agree with you, But is this not a question with merit , I think we should really think about it. If there was no origination for sin then how could we become sin, tracing through the bible all sinn roots in the beginning where Lucifer and his followers rebelled, and for man sin started with the help of Lucifer in the garden of eden, If Lucifer didnt exist , he couldnt have tempted us into sin.

I think both of you have very good points , however it is a mute point sin was before we where so nothing can be done about that now.
All though I am not judging anyone I must say I have heard this type of statement and as I am sure this may not be the case here I have seen that those most meyered in sin are often the ones to claim that they wouldnt be damned for sin if they had not exsposed to it in the first place,

People who think this way are in my opinion making excusses instead of making pennance, they would rather blaim than ask for forgivness.
It's sad but it is true. People blame God for their sin because he created Lucifer, but they forget they had free will in the first place.

But again let me say in no way acussing anyone here of the denial of responsibility nor am I judging them their sins.

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
While sometimes saint when we cross there are disagreements in our points I agree with you, But is this not a question with merit , I think we should really think about it. If there was no origination for sin then how could we become sin, tracing through the bible all sinn roots in the beginning where Lucifer and his followers rebelled, and for man sin started with the help of Lucifer in the garden of eden, If Lucifer didnt exist , he couldnt have tempted us into sin.

Ah, but the thing is, God created Adam and Eve with the command not to eat from that tree. I believe Adam and Eve therefore had the choice (else God wouldn't mention it). They chose not to in the beginning because of their love and respect for God. The serpent-disguised Devil wasn't even around during this discussion therefore sin previously existed if you accept the definition of sin being anything God doesn't approve of. Yeah, Satan did 'talk Eve into it' but it was totally our fault. Adam then turns around an blames God because "The woman YOU put here with me - she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it" (Genesis 3:12). Ouch, double-slap, sin #2 - The serpent was nowhere around in that conversation.

I'm not saying I'm right, this is just how I see it. It's tough to play the 'what if' scenarios, but sometimes you can get an idea from what's recorded.


[edit on 7-2-2005 by saint4God]

Lucifer is right now as we speak in a race against time. He still very much operates in this realm. He is the deceiver. his goal is to keep man from his destiny and that is being with god. he is trying to corrupt gods plan for man by deceiving us. and hes doing a helluva good job.

satan will be judged along with all those who turned their back on the glory of god when judgement day comes.


And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Re 12:8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Re 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Originally posted by deesw

therein lays your problem

No, therein lies your problem. This is a thread about a Christian topic, if you don't recognize the Bible as truth then it's your problem.

Therein lies the REAL problem. Hell is not a Christian topic, but a pagan topic.

Excluding non-Christians and their views from the topic of hell isn't allowing the entire picture.