Satan Wasnt Thrown Out Of Heaven

Originally posted by saint4God
Ah, but the thing is, God created Adam and Eve with the command not to eat from that tree. I believe Adam and Eve therefore had the choice (else God wouldn't mention it). They chose not to in the beginning because of their love and respect for God. The serpent-disguised Devil wasn't even around during this discussion therefore sin previously existed if you accept the definition of sin being anything God doesn't approve of. Yeah, Satan did 'talk Eve into it' but it was totally our fault. Adam then turns around an blames God because "The woman YOU put here with me - she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it" (Genesis 3:12). Ouch, double-slap, sin #2 - The serpent was nowhere around in that conversation.

The choice to obey was blind and without test the sin comes in when sin is put infront of them and they choose to embrase it, Lucifer did not make adam and eve sin he coaxed them along for he had no power to change that which we choose and God doesnt change it either , they both may only present a way and then the descision is our . Lucifer is not the cause of our sin we are by choice ,You can not blame Lucifer for something you chose.

Originally posted by sexysmurff
satan will be judged along with all those who turned their back on the glory of god when judgement day comes.

Lucifer has already been judged he just awaits execution of the sentence ,that is the reason for the vengence he was judged , removed from God's presence and set out to be without God, till such time he shall recieve final execution of sentence , he must wait for the final events like us. When at Maggido he comes possesing the anti-christ and boasts himself victor over God and Claims he is God the shall befall him the light that shall remove his power and an angel shall descend and bind him with chains and the bottomless pit shall be opened Lucifer shall be cast in and the pit shall be sealed. This if the final sentence, and for man the time o final judgement and sentence, they are waiting for.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And thus is the judgement portion of the events, but the sentencing has not yet come. The worse judgement I can ever recieve is to be removed from the face of God and I am only a man , Lucifer was one of the most powerful of angles and had grace such as I will never Know , but worse is his sin and judgement and hence more was lost by him this is the reason for the great rage on man also the rage comes that Lucifer will not be forgiven but his judgement is made, and we are offered salvation from our sin and our judgement is not made.

I'd like to point out few things. I may remember these wrong or may have read a wrongful source but:
1) It wasn't Satan who tempted Eve in the garden, it was "legion". Something that God didn't create or know cause he asked the snake "who are you?" (all knowing?) and the snake replied "we are the Legion, for we are many."
2) The name Lucifer didn't exist in the original dead sea scrolls? I dont remember where I read this but it seemed like it was inserted later to the bible.

no legion was the collective name of demons which jesus christ cast into the swine. now on the other hand elohim or the sons of god may be what you are referring to in the creation account. the elohim were / are angels with a specific purpose created by god. lucifer was one of these angels.

Originally posted by sexysmurff
no legion was the collective name of demons which jesus christ cast into the swine.

My bad, I remembered it all wrong. I checked here and seems that you're right.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
2) The name Lucifer didn't exist in the original dead sea scrolls? I dont remember where I read this but it seemed like it was inserted later to the bible.

Lucifer is refered to as the angel who IS THE SON OF THE MORNING all the way back to the beginning as far as I know of He is also in Genesis the first book of the bible.

Originally posted by sexysmurff
no legion was the collective name of demons which jesus christ cast into the swine. now on the other hand elohim or the sons of god may be what you are referring to in the creation account. the elohim were / are angels with a specific purpose created by god. lucifer was one of these angels.

Yea I remeber this , They yeilded to Jesus and pleaded not to be destroyed and as a compramise, Jesus allowed there request and cast them out of the man into the flock of swine and the swine became as wild born squeling and running in all directions, or something close to that , I may be a bit off I'm not awake yet.

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
The choice to obey was blind and without test the sin comes in when sin is put infront of them and they choose to embrase it, Lucifer did not make adam and eve sin he coaxed them along for he had no power to change that which we choose and God doesnt change it either , they both may only present a way and then the descision is our . Lucifer is not the cause of our sin we are by choice ,You can not blame Lucifer for something you chose.

Well said! I think we're on the same page but were on different approaches.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
The choice to obey was blind and without test the sin comes in when sin is put infront of them and they choose to embrase it, Lucifer did not make adam and eve sin he coaxed them along for he had no power to change that which we choose and God doesnt change it either , they both may only present a way and then the descision is our . Lucifer is not the cause of our sin we are by choice ,You can not blame Lucifer for something you chose.

Well said! I think we're on the same page but were on different approaches.

Thank you very much I wasn't sure if it was harshly said but was trying to make the point and as simple as possible. By the way that is not a stab towards anyones level of understanding or intelligence.

PsykoOps was right as far as the name Lucifer (funny that supposedly it makes no mention of God being a man either in the oldest Hebrew bibles we have, it simply says Yawheh anywhere it mentions God, never using pronouns)never being in any of the older bibles, as well as it wasn't necessarily Satan who tricked Adam and Eve, but simply the serpent, who was "more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made." Genesis 3:1. I don't think that has to mean God didn't create the animal. I'm not saying it wasn't Satan, just that it doesn't say.
I got a question, is Satan actually the devil, or is the devil a name that can be applied to the general bunch of people who oppose God, only at times refering to Satan, like how the name antichrist can be applied to anyone who opposes christ? That's a thinker ain't it?

Originally posted by Croat56
Let me try to explain this. The Devil is evil. He was kicked out for disobeying God. He now runs hell. He loves to torture people so he makes us do bad things in this life so that we will be sent to hell and torture us. Then when the apocolypse happens he will gather all the souls he has taken and try to destroy God.

He doesnt make us do bad things, he tempts us to. Unless you get completely possessed by him.

Here's an interesting explanation of the Lucifer issue:

Lucifer

Trust me, there is no hell, no sins and no satan with horns....
There is only god (positive and negative energies) that is a big ONE with everything
You are arguing all the time about that, it will get you nowhere...the truth is that we have to be unconditionaly loving towards EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING....we are ALL ONE. When you hurt someone, you hurt yourself, so don't. Negatives energies are all over the place, send them away and the truth will come to you. Don't fear "sins" because "sins" is a word of man. The religions that you are into was written by man for man, let go dear ones

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Trust me, there is no hell, no sins and no satan with horns

So you know this for fact? Tell me, what special powers in this universe have blessed you with this knowledge? You are very special to have such knowledge at your fingertips.

What ever happened to BLIND,,, the one who started this thread. Did you get grounded and get your widdle computer taken away? Haven't heard from you in a while.

Originally posted by deesw

So you know this for fact? Tell me, what special powers in this universe have blessed you with this knowledge? You are very special to have such knowledge at your fingertips.

I know dear that you cannot accept it because you don't listen to your true higher self. Let go of old beleifs and listen to yourself, the truth will come to you just as it came to me dear one, have faith in you, you have the power to get all those answers and beleive they are facts...
love always
Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

It must be wonderful in your world, a world that revolves around you. How do you change a light bulb? Just hold the bulb in place and watch the world revolve around you? So you believe that there is nothing higher than you in this universe? How do you explain the chain of command in this world. We all have leaders to which we have to answer. Do you have no boss at work? If you do then your boss has a boss. The chain goes all the way up to GOD.

Originally posted by deesw
The chain goes all the way up to GOD.

:shk:

And I always thought everyone was equal in the eyes of your christian god.

And I always thought everyone was equal in the eyes of your christian god.

Who ever told you that? There are angels with certain jobs. God is the head of us all. Sorry you don't agree.

That is YOUR right to beleive that dear one

There is something higher than myself, god is the SOURCE of everything that exist but I'm connected to it with my higher self, so do you! YOUR body is just a shell dear. You are a light beign from god...so as everybody...when you hurt someone, you hurt yourself.

Everybody on earth is EQUAL, all the same thing but they think they are not, they do not beleive in their power. That is what religious beleifs and doctrine told you for 2000 years, that you are inferior! You don't have to serve god, god is into you!

You are not ready for those answers now...I send you love for you to awake to the truth

Have faith
Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I wouldnt say punishing, exactly.

My thoughts are if he does exist, the myth/fairytale about him is he is the nagging voice in the back of your mind to do wrong. He is a tempter, he wants to tempt so he can punish humans who were given free will. Free will being the greatest gift God gave ever. The fallen Angels in particularly Lucifer was "jealous" that God decided to give his best gift away to mere humans, when Angels were his first creations. The Fallen Angels felt they were more deserving, and were in line first for all of God's blessings/gifts.

Does this make sense?

-ADHDsux4me

Do you mean 'heaven' as in that planet or large spaceship or organised military-type of force that is heirarchical in nature,
or 'heaven' as in what creation is meant to be like all the time anyway, as God designed it to be, hence God would not create any beings that would upset the intention of creation at all and actually cause any kind of suffering or imbalance.