Thoughts on the UFO Subject in general

I am opening this thread to try and reason through my thoughts on the UFO subject and to get relevant opinions from the forum in general.

I am thoroughly interested in the UFO phenomena. I have been researching this subject for many years now (though not in a structured or organized way), and I have read many books on the subject from many different authors (even dating back to Donald Keyhoe's era). I researched it back that far because I wanted to understand the beginnings of the current phenomena and how it all lead up to now, and why the scientists, our government, and the citizenry have such irreconcilably differing opinions on the subject. I have watched many (not all, but most) television programs on the subject. I find myself fascinated by the possibility that life from elsewhere may be visiting us. If I were to score myself (percentage wise) as a believer or disbeliever, I would say that I am about 85% pro believer, and 15% disbeliever.

Here is my main question I wanted to ask of the forum:

Well, first let me set the stage for the reason that I am asking the question in the first place, then I will get to the question. From all the research that I have done, it appears that, our Government (publicly) has zero interest in the subject. Mainstream science (publicly) makes a joke of it. Mainstream media makes a joke of it, and most universities (publicly) ostracize anyone that takes the subject seriously. Above fifty percent of the general populace believes in the reality of UFO's in the U. S. and some other countries.
(see: www.ufoevidence.org... and www.newsweek.com...).

So, now that the stage is set, here is the question:

If there really is nothing to the subject/phenomena, nothing worth looking into, and every reason to deride anyone that takes the subject seriously, then why are there government documents (documents not in contention) popping up that are marked as classified that show without a doubt that the government is interested ... ala (www.theblackvault.com...) and even the recently released documents of the government sites themselves?
These documents also link prominent scientists and universities to the subject.

Also, if there never was anything to the subject (as we have been told by the Air Force all these years - the government mouthpiece on this subject), why would the government mark anything concerning the subject as classified at all? Why would the FBI, CIA, NSA, Air Force, NORAD and other government agencies classify any document that mentions the subject? (again, I am speaking of uncontested documents).

So there are my question(s), and I hope that this will spark a discussion on this subject in a way that will pique your interest, and hopefully you will have a desire to have these questions answered as well.

Reiteration. I could expand on that but why bother. He said, she said and I saw, with much more he said she said then I saw. Maybe at one time or another all of us may have seen something and either made up our own explanation for it of listened to someone else explain it for us. But that seems the crux of it to me.

One would have to be extremely naïve to think we are alone in this universe. There's my opening line.

originally posted by: repairguyt
If there really is nothing to the subject/phenomena, nothing worth looking into, and every reason to deride anyone that takes the subject seriously, then why are there government documents (documents not in contention) popping up that are marked as classified that show without a doubt that the government is interested ... ala (www.theblackvault.com...) and even the recently released documents of the government sites themselves?
These documents also link prominent scientists and universities to the subject.

Now, with respect to your above question...there are many earthbound reasons that documents could be classified as Secret or Top Secret. Among them would be Counter Intelligence Program or cointelpro. To a large degree, it actually makes sense to have the world looking to the left while secretive flights are taking place on the right, out of groom lake. It begins to make even more sense when TS flights (in the past, U2 is a great example or SR-71) for the world at large to believe what they've seen are UFO's (in fact, they would be UFO's as I doubt highly anyone would have been able to classify them in the first place) which is easier to explain away than "we just developed a hypersonic aircraft that can traverse the 100k ceiling and watch everything you do". Conversely, if they were forced to 'enlighten' us by declassifying those documents, then certain parties would realize what steps we've (or other Governments) been taking to spy on each other.

With all the above said, some of the incidents truly WERE unexplainable, Rendlesham Forest and Phoenix are 2 very visible and great examples. While lots of people have a propensity for drawing the Roswell incident playing card, I personally think Roswell was a minor incident with too many hands in the cookie jar to be credible, but the other 2 aforementioned, to me, are different animals.

Let's also not forget ancient historic evidence that could easily point to alien visitation...the only issue I tend to have with THAT is, well, why did it stop? I almost feel identical in the way that I do with religion - religion touts all of these (amazingly difficult to believe) miracles taking place, but now that we're smarter and more advanced all the sudden they no longer take place? Seems like smoke and mirrors for whatever the agenda may have been.

400+ billion stars in our galaxy. Many-fold more galaxies in our universe. Are we alone in it? I ask how could we possibly be?

I can't add much except to quote my boy Fox . . .

"I want to believe. . ."

I have since a young age believes in the phenomena, I think it stems from a strange occurrence I had when I was a boy in my backyard. . .

And I've seen some things that I cannot understand . . .

Perhaps top secret what have yous, perhaps something else.

...why would the government mark anything concerning the subject as classified at all?

Because what was done with the results of the research done on "The UFO Phenomenon" is classified.

It's not about what "UFOs" (UAP) are. it's about what "they" hide.

Been on and off the fence about the subject for years. Have I seen a UFO? Yes, more than one. The most clear one likely a UFO, do I proof of that? No, it was back before cell phone cams and didn't have one with film in it available.

I feel it's possible they do exist. As some researchers claim not all are greys, nor are all traveling by space/UFOs. Though, I have not seen one, nor have proof.

IMO it's very worth looking into as a subject. Just be aware of certain sources(YouTube ones for example).

I used to be like Mulder, I wanted to believe, enjoyed the ideas of Danicken. Not to the great lengths the silly "Ancient Aliens" programs go on about. But more about planet Earth have being visited by other beings, and interacting with humanoids on this planet, be it Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals, Denisovians, and more. The first 'arrival' might have kickstarted something between us all. An ancient knowledge is waiting to be discovered. Many monuments have been built through the stone age which we today have no clues as of how they did it.

It certainly is a more "reliable" belief to have, compared to what we were taught in sunday school...in my opinion.

As for post-Roswell, I cant say I'm the damned interested anymore. Not after William Cooper was shot dead. He was one I used to listen to alot as he was an avid speaker on UFO's, Majestic 12, Area 51.

Until one day he released a document, where he had discovered another, more solid truth; The UFO phenomena we all know since Roswell, is a hoax. He then went on about the shadow governments, the ruling elite, New World Order. Their plan of keeping the public in check. Bill Clinton called him the most dangerous man in USA radio. And thus:

WHAT BILL COOPER SAID
TWO WEEKS BEFORE HE WAS KILLED

www.hourofthetime.com...

This is tragic news. I have a few more papers left to send to my readers and my "farewell" paper, but this needed to get sent out immediately. In a nutshell: Two weeks ago, on a nighttime broadcast simulcast through a number of national radio stations, William Cooper, ex-Naval Intel, blew his Top Secret security clearance by putting together a press conference where he laid out the structure of this country's SHADOW GOVERNMENT, tracing its roots to the UFO/Alien cover-ups that began in the 1940s-1950s. He was very concise and explicit, naming names and documentation, offices and meetings from the 50s on down to the1970s. He literally ripped the lid of the cover-up, and told his audience that he'd probably be killed for this. he was. This brilliant, decorated military career man left Naval Intelligence in 1975,. By his own admission, he was unable to reconcile what he'd learned while in Naval Intel, about Alien controls and secret combinations within over our government. He refused to serve the anti-constitutional "Military Industrial Complex" run by NAS/CIA and the NWO, and resigned. After this he began to leak info, often receiving threats on his life and family for so doing. He continued undaunted, but has been increasingly harassed for his outspoken whistle-blowing. To weeks ago he decided he could hold back what he'd learned no longer, and blew the whistle on the whole charade, naming people's names, dates places...everything he'd learned! Apparently this was the last straw? William Cooper's stunning presentation was bound to get him killed. He knew it, and stated it before his live audience. If anyone thinks this man's statements were exaggerated, ask yourself WHY he was killed? There is tight security surrounding the details of the actual incident resulting in his death. The story is being spun to make it sound like he had a scuffle with two Sheriff deputies in which he shot one officer in the head twice. He was then. According to the official story, shot dead. The deputy is said to be alive, but Cooper was killed on the spot. You can bet your three dollar bills and wooden nickels that the truth surrounding this little "assassination" will never be revealed before it is spun beyond recognition. There is little doubt that Bill simply went too far. This is the same sort of thing that got Kennedy shot. If "they" kill presidents to cover up these truths, how much chance does one lone ex-military officer have?

And in William Cooper's own document:

www.hourofthetime.com...

The following is fact. It is not a theory it is a genuine conspiracy. I witnessed the Top Secret/Majic documents from which this information is excerpted while a member of the United States Navy attached to the Intelligence Briefing Team of Admiral Bernard Clarey, Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet. I certify that the following information is true and correct to the best of my memory and the research that I have accomplished. I will swear to it in any court of Law. I can produce the names of approximately 38 U.S. Navy officers and enlisted men who witnessed these documents while in the service of their country. I can produce the names of approximately 8 people involved in the UFO deception who have witnessed these documents. I can produce the names of approximately 80 others whom I suspect have witnessed these same documents. I will not reveal the names except in a court of Law that is willing to prosecute the People and organizations involved in the conspiracy to overthrow the government of the United States of America to bring about a socialist totalitarian world government. For many years I sincerely believed that an extraterrestrial threat existed and that it was the most important driving force behind world events. I was wrong and for that I most deeply and humbly apologize. Many years ago I had access to a set of documents that I eventually realized was the plan for the destruction of the united States of America and the formation of a socialist totalitarian world government. The plan was contained within a set of Top Secret documents with the title "MAJESTYTWELVE". There was no space between majesty and twelve. The term honored the planned placement of ultimate power in a body of wise men who are destined to rule the world as the disciples of a Messiah front man. This Messiah will serve as a buffer between the wise men and the sheople. I discovered these documents between 1970 and 1973 while I was a member of the Intelligence Briefing Team of the Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet. MAJESTYTWELVE was in a tall thin font style... imagine the title squeezed together between the M and E with all of the letters stretched vertically. The key to access was a Top Secret (Q) (SCI) security clearance with the compartmentalization of "MAJIC" (not magic). I cannot remember the exact font except that it is a tall thin version of San Serif... the exact name escapes me after all these years... but it is a key to access. The plan outlined the formation of a world totalitarian socialist government. It is to be ruled by a behind-the-scenes council of wise men. A so-called benevolent dictator, will be presented as the Messiah. The Constitution for the united States of America and its Bill of Rights will be scrapped. A parliamentary form of government will take its place. All military forces and individuals are to be disarmed except for an internal police force which will carry only the minimum weapons needed to maintain internal order.

I still like the idea of other beings visiting us in a long and distant past. But as for the past millenia? Not so much.

a reply to: repairguyt

R:"Mainstream media makes a joke of it.."

I dont think I agree with that. The TV is full of shows about aliens.

R:"Also, if there never was anything to the subject.. why would the government."

I think that is less of a question and the reason you feel something is up. something is - up.

originally posted by: nOraKat
a reply to: repairguyt

R:"Mainstream media makes a joke of it.."

I dont think I agree with that. The TV is full of shows about aliens.

R:"Also, if there never was anything to the subject.. why would the government."

I think that is less of a question and the reason you feel something is up. something is - up.

And those TV shows are purely for the laughs though. None are really serious. Ancient Aliens being the big one, is just one big "WHAT IF" series, which has had its fun episodes of course. Started out Danicken like, but then went all overboard.

Can you name any other shows that takes up any current UFO phenomenas seriously?
I havent really heard or seen anything like the UFO waves they had back in the 40-60's. If people saw them so much back then, why arent they seeing them now? If anything big happened today as it did back then, it would be documented by the public and spread on every piece of social media. It could not be stopped, unlike Roswell, (if an extra terrestrial ship really crashed.)

a reply to: repairguyt


I see. You are another person waking up to the more than obvious but can't reconcile what you have learned to what seems to be the actual situation. That puzzlement is legion on ATS and elsewhere as "consensus reality" blocks an accurate view and understanding of the entire situation. And, of course, there are forces at work that are aimed to prevent you from gaining an accurate view.


And that situation is relatively simple in form:
ETs exist in the galaxy if not universe with the ability to appear here either by physical or other means.
They have appeared at this time in our development because we split the atom, as it used to be said, and they are concerned for our wild ways of treating each other that obviously means that we are inherently dangerous to all living things.

The remarkable conveyances some of those beings used immediately captured the attention of most governments and the quest was on to replicate them. By scientific observation and crash recoveries, the US if not other nations, eventually re-engineered a domestic version of the traditional UFO that "flies" by reducing its mass to zero. The US has had for years the notorious "black triangles" that are the greatest war weapon ever created. This shadow force dominates over any other fighting force on earth. In addition, those craft have allowed the US to by-pass the conventional methods of brute rocketry to explore the Moon and beyond at ease.

Over and above the simple aspect of the reality and continued denial of the ETs here at our side is the dark side of contact. The evidence is continually display on even ATS by a subconscious, short-sighted perspective that may accept the concept of UFOs being alien visits, but rarely budges into the incalculable ramifications looming in the future for humanity. This far greater aspect is the question of what are the ETs bringing to the table?

While they may not have tentacles nor want us for food, what are their goals for us having come into our view? How does our view clash with their view of the cosmos? A simple understanding can be had from nothing more complicated than a TV series such as "Star Trek Generations." In that series all you need do is see the "Enterprise" as a UFO (why does it resemble one?) and entertain the thought that the crew are the ETs and any of the beings they encounter are really we humans. Apply the ethical codes of the Prime Directive" broadcast in every episode of that show, and you can have a decent understanding of how an outside force visiting our planet would truly behave. Joke all you want about the comparison, but it fits like a glove tailor made by a clever PR campaign.

If the introduction of non-violent ideologies and alien machines into the mainstream of humanity isn't enough to cause mayhem on our planet, then the other, greater secret will. No one but a few want to acknowledge that some ETs, the greys anyway, have the ability to actually control the minds and actions of humans. While that situation happens in about every abduction, that seemingly impossible craziness is ignored, discounted and denied, to unreal!

That is not to say they can control every mind on the planet, but when they choose, they absolutely can control individuals and groups. How can we explain that? What defense do we have to that? We have no explanation and no defense from what universally will be seen as an invasion of our very souls. I have been there, driving alone at night and finding that instantly I was relegated to being an observer to my mind and body being suddenly controlled by an outside force. The acceptance of that knowledge does not come easy.

Anybody that thinks, for the sake of convenience, that alien UFOs don't exist is fooling themselves, whistling in the dark, wanting the powerlessness to go away so that they can yet remain masters of their own destiny. Wake up, folks. Humanity is at a point where it is not the dominant force in the universe or even on its own planet.

ETA: Fresh from battle, I realized that much of the sentiments above are simply another version of a post I made on another thread on the 17th or so. However, I keep having a nagging suspicion that threads such as this one and others appear honestly or by design to stir the pot of the ongoing UFO issue that is the most complex and greatest situation that humanity has ever faced. Make no mistake on that point. it effects you.

Thanks, for a good laugh. With no sources you have a really sure world view. Were you abducted and told all these things?

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
Reiteration. I could expand on that but why bother. He said, she said and I saw, with much more he said she said then I saw. Maybe at one time or another all of us may have seen something and either made up our own explanation for it of listened to someone else explain it for us. But that seems the crux of it to me.

Why make it classified information then?

originally posted by: Dan00

...why would the government mark anything concerning the subject as classified at all?

Because what was done with the results of the research done on "The UFO Phenomenon" is classified.

It's not about what "UFOs" (UAP) are. it's about what "they" hide.

Because of how things have been hidden behind the phenomenon. Which is natural and entirely of this Earth.

Doesn't make any sense. If all UFO sightings were nothing but natural phenomena then why go to all the trouble of making it classified? The CIA fought hard against the freedom of information request filed against them in the 70's to keep this information secret.

Natural earth events doesn't cut it.

a reply to: jamespond

Wow. Thanks for all the responses everyone. And thanks Jamespond. I believe you understand the point that I was trying to make.

To me, it makes no sense for our government to go to all the trouble of classifying documents that have information about this subject that they tout is not real. Why go to all the trouble? Why not just ignore it entirely (if it is not real)? The expenditure on manpower alone required to classify, file, and disseminate each document is a total waste, if there is nothing to the subject. So, Why waste the effort and money? To me, it points to the reality that there is definitely something to it, or they would not spend so much effort on classifying the documents, and not just one agency, but many.

a reply to: Jungian

Thanks Jungian for the reply. I like the interaction with others that have opposing views. But you really didn't have much to say.

So, I take it you are a non-believer? If so, why are you spending time in the UFO forum? Are you in reality on the fence? Do you feel that it is your responsibility to post the opposing view?

Please believe me that I am not trying to be rude to you. I am simply asking "why?".

a reply to: Aliensun

Thanks Aliensun. You are correct. I am waking up to these things that do not add up logically. Yes, I have seen truly some explainable things. I am posting these questions because I am truly seeking the answers to my questions.

Further, where are the real investigative reporters that dig for answers and do not let go of a story until they find the truth. Of course if you want to know things like how and why Michael Jackson or Prince died, you can find out, because the reporters on those topics dig right down to the bare truth. But when dealing with this subject, there seems to be no investigative reporters interested in the actual truth. Others that are not actual journalist have taken on that role to try and get to the truth.

And here is another aspect that puzzles me concerning my original questions. Why all the push-back from government agencies if there is actually nothing to it?

a reply to: Jungian

Can you name any other shows that takes up any current UFO phenomenas seriously?

NASA's Unexplained Files - the earlier episodes. I don't know about later ones..

originally posted by: Jungian
Thanks, for a good laugh. With no sources you have a really sure world view. Were you abducted and told all these things?

No sources?? The sources that back up the topic of the OP, amazingly enough, are in the OP.

Next time, try reading first.

a reply to: repairguyt

You didnt read my first post. Or did you ignore it becasue I called out the silly Ancient Aliens show? I used to believe. Until Cooper was shot dead, as he was one I used to listen to avidly on the radio back in the 90's. Until he discovered the real truth. And now is dead for it. They let him be while he was talking about UFOs, MJ12. Then as he shifted over to the New World Order, it only took 2 weeks and he was a dead man. This did get me thinking. Clearly. For how long have you been a believer? Are you just here to get people who support your beliefs? You dont want to read anything which might "oppose" your views? Sad.

I still enjoy the idea that they came here, many millennia ago and interacted with the humanoids who were walking planet earth, besides just humans.

And your title of the thread is about UFO beliefs "In general"

Which made me interested, cause I wanted to share my side of the story. But it seems you ONLY prefer "true" believers. Even more sad.

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: Jungian
Thanks, for a good laugh. With no sources you have a really sure world view. Were you abducted and told all these things?

No sources?? The sources that back up the topic of the OP, amazingly enough, are in the OP.

Next time, try reading first.

Next time I wont forget to quote. My reply was to Aliensun. He provided a ton of text but nothing to back it up with.
People claim to have seen these unexplainable things, in this day and age, with nothing to back up for it? I'll take it as part of the UFO wave hysteria in the 40's. Keep it up though, it is entertaining. Dont think Ive been through this road before. Oh wait, its just gonna be a waste of time though. If I replied 20 years ago to this thread I would probably too be all onboard and not think really critical. And Cooper would still be alive perhaps, so I would see no reason not to doubt anyone in here regarding UFO's and reptiles beneath our skins.