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Thoughts on the UFO Subject in general

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posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: Dan00

Why don't you tell me about your janitorial service concept?

Im not a gnostic though. I can see where someone might think so of course.

Sentience is a whopper of a misunderstood concept, but that is another story.

As for 3 years i was referring to research and discussions predating ATS.

Kev




posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: Jungian

originally posted by: KansasGirl
Jungian, you seem downright OBSESED with William Cooper. You can't go two sentences without bringing him up. You seem to be personally hurting that the OP doesn't know anything about him. What gives???



I cant go two sentences without bringing him up? Kinda only reading what you want, like repairguyt arent you. I explained myself as being one who used to believe. Now, Im obsessed by seeking the truth. William Cooper was as well. And he died for it. Did they bother him while he was seeking the truth and speaking for decades about UFO's? Nope. Not one bit.
.

[/quote/]

Not reading what I want, more like one can't read your posts for more than a sentence or two without you bringing up Bill Cooper again. It's just an observation, that your posts seemed to have a one-track mind.

Just reading your posts up to where I commented, you invoked his name 15 times. That's not counting entire walls of texts you wrote about him but didn't invoke his name.

I've only done a little bit of reading about William Cooper- but I've read enough to ferret out that his death circumstances and what exactly lead up to it aren't cut-and-dried proveable that he was killed for speaking out about The Conspiracy. Some say he'd gone a little off of his rocker and wasn't exactly making rock solid conclusions with the data he had. I suppose those who say that about him are disinformation agents, trying to keep us from looking into William Cooper's conclusions?

Anyway, since I don't have a lot of knowledge on him, would you mind recommending some sources for me? Other than his pale horse book. I tried reading it and it just didn't work for me and I gave up about 15 pages in. Any others you would suggest?

Thanks!



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 10:50 PM
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originally posted by: KansasGirlI've only done a little bit of reading about William Cooper- but I've read enough to ferret out that his death circumstances and what exactly lead up to it aren't cut-and-dried proveable that he was killed for speaking out about The Conspiracy.

I can help shed some light on this much. Officially, he was shot, because he shot a Sheriffs Deputy in the head, and vowed he would never be taken alive if ever confronted. It seems he kept to his word.



Some say he'd gone a little off of his rocker and wasn't exactly making rock solid conclusions with the data he had. I suppose those who say that about him are disinformation agents, trying to keep us from looking into William Cooper's conclusions?



I'm sure some would argue that the public would be kept at arms length so as not to dig too deep, I however, have my doubts about what his state of mind was. He purported to being privy to classified documents due to his ties with naval intelligence, however there is no record of him ever having received TS clearance nor any record of his service that amounted to any more than a desk clerk, who never could have gotten close to TS documentation.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: alphabetaone
Thanks, alphabetaone! That lines up with what I had read about him too. And going back and listening to snippets of his radio shows or, whatever they were, he did sound a little unglued. Although I guess if he really did have knowledge of a major worldwide nefarious conspiracy against the masses but couldn't get anyone to listen, being a little unglued would be understandable. Or, he could Just be crazy.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:21 PM
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I am Interested in this subject because I have without a doubt seen one. It was in broad daylight when what looked like a giant egg silently glided out towards the horizon.

Looking back, it didn't feel extra terrestrial to me. It seemed more like a hologram. I don't know why, that's just what my gut instinct tells me.

For that reason I lean towards the idea that ufos are something interdimensional. I think it has something to do with parallel universes. When someone sees a UFO they're witnessing a sort of glitch where the craft or entity momentarily bleeds into our reality.

That wouldn't explain abductions though so I don't know.

In any case I know UFO reports are not all made up because I have seen something myself. I think reality is just far more interesting then our limited senses allow us to perceive.



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:38 PM
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originally posted by: KansasGirl
a reply to: alphabetaone
Thanks, alphabetaone! That lines up with what I had read about him too. And going back and listening to snippets of his radio shows or, whatever they were, he did sound a little unglued. Although I guess if he really did have knowledge of a major worldwide nefarious conspiracy against the masses but couldn't get anyone to listen, being a little unglued would be understandable. Or, he could Just be crazy.


No problem


Yes, that is the rub, as it were, that if he had a handle on more than he could explain rationally then he clearly would sound unhinged.

I think a lot of what it was he spoke about couldn't possibly be conveyed to your average 9-5 working joe without sounding a little psychotic. I find the old adage to be somewhat prophetic in an instance like his - "is it still being paranoid if they really ARE out to get you?"



posted on Dec, 1 2016 @ 11:45 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: KansasGirlI've only done a little bit of reading about William Cooper- but I've read enough to ferret out that his death circumstances and what exactly lead up to it aren't cut-and-dried proveable that he was killed for speaking out about The Conspiracy.

I can help shed some light on this much. Officially, he was shot, because he shot a Sheriffs Deputy in the head, and vowed he would never be taken alive if ever confronted. It seems he kept to his word.



Some say he'd gone a little off of his rocker and wasn't exactly making rock solid conclusions with the data he had. I suppose those who say that about him are disinformation agents, trying to keep us from looking into William Cooper's conclusions?



I'm sure some would argue that the public would be kept at arms length so as not to dig too deep, I however, have my doubts about what his state of mind was. He purported to being privy to classified documents due to his ties with naval intelligence, however there is no record of him ever having received TS clearance nor any record of his service that amounted to any more than a desk clerk, who never could have gotten close to TS documentation.


I know a few guys in the military and two have TS clearances and have a normal job, but that covers them and hides their other special duties when they get called to do them. Some things are so sensitive they hide everything behind the simplest things. Desk clerk or whatever is perfect cover.

And the first thing that happens when someone starts blowing the whistle is all their records being expunged from view by anyone, anywhere.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 12:55 AM
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originally posted by: repairguyt
a reply to: karl 12

Thanks a lot Karl for the reply. This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Why are the documents classified by the government entities, and requires a lawsuit to get the documents, if there is nothing to this subject? It defies logic. As a tax paying citizen myself, I want the government to release all relative documents concerning UFO's (especially if they maintain that there is absolutely nothing to it). My point is - PROVE IT. Release the documents.


No problem mate I hadn't seen that Peter Gersten video for a while so it was good to see it again -this presentation by John Greenewald Junior about the subject is also well worth a watch if you haven't seen it before.

Cheers.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 06:47 AM
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I have always been interested in the ufo subject since I was a kid.

I believe, and the evidence clearly tells you, that there is overwhelming when it comes to ufos. Not overwhelming that these are ET, but overwhelming that something unknown is flying in our air space.

Now, this could be a number of things/ Could be military secret projects, ET, inter dimensional, conciseness . to name but a few.

Most things about ufos are rubbish. We are living in an age where it is so easy to fake photos and movies, but there are a handful of cases that simply defy explanation. Some of these cases are backed up with radar, multiple witnesess, on the ground and in the air.

And it is also quite obvious to me that governments take this subject a lot more seriously than we are led to believe.



posted on Dec, 2 2016 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: karl 12

originally posted by: repairguyt
a reply to: karl 12

Thanks a lot Karl for the reply. This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Why are the documents classified by the government entities, and requires a lawsuit to get the documents, if there is nothing to this subject? It defies logic. As a tax paying citizen myself, I want the government to release all relative documents concerning UFO's (especially if they maintain that there is absolutely nothing to it). My point is - PROVE IT. Release the documents.


No problem mate I hadn't seen that Peter Gersten video for a while so it was good to see it again -this presentation by John Greenewald Junior about the subject is also well worth a watch if you haven't seen it before.

Cheers.


Thanks Karl. Great vid. I hadn't seen this particular vid yet. Appreciate the link. I knew of Greenwald way back when he first started the Black Vault and again, this is more or less the basis for my questions here. It defies logic that the government would classify documents relating to UFO's if there is really nothing to it and they are not investigating the phenomenon.

Thanks for the reply.



posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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So, I would like to thank everyone that replied to this post for their opinions. I truly appreciate all of the replies.

After reading back through the entire thread though, I am still not satisfied that anyone actually attempted to seriously answer my questions.

Why would the government(s) classify any government generated documentation that mentions UFOs? I mean really. Think it through...

1. If there really is nothing to it - Why create public interest by:
a. Classifying documents related to the subject
b. Creating multiple organizations that deal with the subject publicly and covertly
c. Commissioning studies/reports related to the subject for public consumption, and non-public access (aka... classified studies)
d. Publicly (very publicly) debunk sightings
e. Trying to explain (some of which were outright laughable explanations) any sighting (via the created organizations)
f. Give up on trying to explain a small percentage (I think the number of unexplained sightings in project Blue Book was around 700 or so) of sightings when they had already used some laughable explanations for other sightings

That is just some of the questions that beg an answer and definitely not the exhaustive list.

So, I realize that there are groups of people (most notably; scientists and scientific organizations) that believe that:
1. All UFOs can be explained as:
a. Military (classified) craft
b. Atmospheric phenomena (defined/known)
c. Planets/Stars
d. Swamp gas
e. Plasma
f. Hallucinations
g. Mass hallucinations
h. Character of the person/people reporting the sighting (hoaxes)
i. Ball lightning
j. Ice crystals
Note: List above is not exhaustive. You get the picture. They believe that there are zero sightings that are un-explainable.

While I believe that, in all probability, most sightings may fall under one or more of the explainable categories above, I cannot except that all sightings fit into an explainable category (and apparently, neither does the government). Which brings me back to the classified government documentation. While I realize that the people above would/have claim(ed) that all classified government documents now in the public domain are faked/or are of a questionable nature, the sheer amount/volume of (previously classified) government documents/evidence now available (and continues to grow each day) makes that theory doubtful. I do not except the premise that the government(s) expend the effort to classify UFO related documents for the purpose of - covering up military projects, disinformation to distract the public from military projects, etc. There are simply too many documents that point to the contrary (especially when you add all the civilian/government employee reports by individuals of outstanding character, and the physical evidence such as; landing sites, people that have experienced and documented physical effects of being too close to a UFO).

With all that said, I would again ask of the community at large. Why does the government classify documents that mention UFOs? Seriously.

Thanks in advance for putting up with my questions.



posted on Jan, 8 2017 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: repairguyt




.....Why would the government(s) classify any government generated documentation that mentions UFOs? I mean really. Think it through...

1. If there really is nothing to it - Why create public interest by:
a. Classifying documents related to the subject
b. Creating multiple organizations that deal with the subject publicly and covertly
c. Commissioning studies/reports related to the subject for public consumption, and non-public access (aka... classified studies)
d. Publicly (very publicly) debunk sightings
e. Trying to explain (some of which were outright laughable explanations) any sighting (via the created organizations)
f. Give up on trying to explain a small percentage (I think the number of unexplained sightings in project Blue Book was around 700 or so) of sightings when they had already used some laughable explanations for other sightings



There are many reasons documents are classified. First you have to let go of the belief that UFOs are alien spacecraft and this is what is being covered up. Because there are many legitimate reasons for secrecy.

Governments have to classify documents to protect national security. The type of resources that are kept at military installations, strength of radar, location of personnel and other information will all need to remain secret for many years. There have been many document releases across the world of government UFO papers. One of the reasons there was a cover-up of sorts introduced in the 1950s was basically to avoid World War 3. People were reporting all sorts of things in the skies. Investigating these supposed incursions into Western Airspace could well have meant resources were not allocated to a real alert involving the Soviets. There was also a fear the Soviets may be behind some of the UFO flaps to cause confusion.




...I do not except the premise that the government(s) expend the effort to classify UFO related documents for the purpose of - covering up military projects,



Did you mean accept? Otherwise the rest of your point does not really make sense.

Believe it. The military like to hide behind UFO stories for testing their gear. The CIA admitted it a while back.

CIA Admits: Most UFO Sightings in 50’s, 60’s Were Our Planes

There is even proof in the Condign report that alludes to the fact the UK MoD were looking to create novel weapon technology from the 'phenomenon'. I would guess other organisation think likewise.

Finally governments don't want you to know what they know. But they also want to hide from you what they don't know.

So there is something to the topic. Unidentified Flying Objects exist. They have been seen by many and definitely studied by governments and civilian organisations. But no one organisation has ever declared and proven them to be an alien spacecraft. Probably because almost all of them can be explained with a prosaic explanation. The 'unknowns' are just that. They are unknown. With more information it may be possible to solve the mystery. One or more may even have been an alien spacecraft as we can't prove a negative.

There are plenty of people who will sell you a book or a ticket to their speaking engagements who will tell UFOs are reality. Yes they are. But if they tell you they are extra-terrestrial in nature and there has been a massive global cover-up then there is sadly not one iota of proof that is true.



edit on 8/1/17 by mirageman because: typo



posted on Jan, 9 2017 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: repairguyt




There are many reasons documents are classified. First you have to let go of the belief that UFOs are alien spacecraft and this is what is being covered up. Because there are many legitimate reasons for secrecy.


I did not state that I believe that UFOs are "Alien Space Craft". I will state that I believe that government documents that are now in the public domain (previously classified) show that the government (officials within the government) were seeing UFOs and could not explain many of the cases they investigated (could not be identified).



Governments have to classify documents to protect national security. The type of resources that are kept at military installations, strength of radar, location of personnel and other information will all need to remain secret for many years. There have been many document releases across the world of government UFO papers. One of the reasons there was a cover-up of sorts introduced in the 1950s was basically to avoid World War 3. People were reporting all sorts of things in the skies. Investigating these supposed incursions into Western Airspace could well have meant resources were not allocated to a real alert involving the Soviets. There was also a fear the Soviets may be behind some of the UFO flaps to cause confusion.


I am aware that documents are classified for national security reasons and that the government does this out of necessity, but I am not talking about military hardware... etc. I am talking about government documents that specifically mention UFOs (not civilian reports. Government reports that were previously classified and now released, or are now in the public domain).



...I do not except the premise that the government(s) expend the effort to classify UFO related documents for the purpose of - covering up military projects,




Did you mean accept? Otherwise the rest of your point does not really make sense.


Thank you for pointing out my mistake... I did mean "accept".



Believe it. The military like to hide behind UFO stories for testing their gear. The CIA admitted it a while back.

CIA Admits: Most UFO Sightings in 50’s, 60’s Were Our Planes


So, in your opinion: All government generated documents relating specifically to UFOs (leaked or released) are either hoaxes, or are disinformation and none are worthy of being considered as factual documentation?



There is even proof in the Condign report that alludes to the fact the UK MoD were looking to create novel weapon technology from the 'phenomenon'. I would guess other organisation think likewise.




It is the opinion of the Committee that the present Air Force program dealing with UFO sightings has bee well organized, although the resources assigned to it (only one officer, a sergeant, and a secretary) have been quite limited. In 19 years and more than 10,000 sightings recorded and classified, there appears to be not verified and fully satisfactory evidence of any case that is clearly outside the framework of presently known science and technology. Nevertheless, there is always the possibility that analysis of new sightings may provide some additions to scientific knowledge of value to the Air Force. Moreover, some of the case records at which the Committee looked that were listed as 'identified' were sightings where the evidence collected was too meager or too indefinite to permit positive listing in the identified category. Because of this the Committee recommends that the present program be strengthened to provide opportunity for scientific investigation of selected sightings in more detail than has been possible to date.


The paragraph above is taken directly from the Condon Report - too many people focus on what was said in this report that negatively impacted UFO research, and not the entire report. It clearly recommended further study of UFO sightings.



Finally governments don't want you to know what they know. But they also want to hide from you what they don't know.

So there is something to the topic. Unidentified Flying Objects exist. They have been seen by many and definitely studied by governments and civilian organisations. But no one organisation has ever declared and proven them to be an alien spacecraft. Probably because almost all of them can be explained with a prosaic explanation. The 'unknowns' are just that. They are unknown. With more information it may be possible to solve the mystery. One or more may even have been an alien spacecraft as we can't prove a negative.

There are plenty of people who will sell you a book or a ticket to their speaking engagements who will tell UFOs are reality. Yes they are. But if they tell you they are extra-terrestrial in nature and there has been a massive global cover-up then there is sadly not one iota of proof that is true.


Yes, I know that governments don't want anyone outside the government and without the "need to know", knowing classified information and I realize too that disinformation does exist and is created for the specific purpose of masking military secrets and hiding from us "things that they don't know" as well. But I reject the theory that all government documents relating specifically to UFOs are fake, hoax, or disinformation. Furthermore, your explanation as to WHY the government(s) "classifies" documents specifically related to UFOs is lacking supporting evidence. And to the contrary, there is a multitude of declassified documents now in the public domain that show that the government(s) have/has been (since the 1940's or so) interested in the UFO subject and takes the matter seriously.

I am not trying to start a quarrel with you. I just believe that if people would consider what the very fact that the government(s) classifying documents specifically relating to UFOs implies (which is that the government believes that there really is something to it), then the subject would be taken more seriously by the scientific community than it is.

Thanks for the reply.



posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: repairguyt




....I just believe that if people would consider what the very fact that the government(s) classifying documents specifically relating to UFOs implies (which is that the government believes that there really is something to it), then the subject would be taken more seriously by the scientific community than it is.


I think we got rather at cross purposes. Mainly because the post I was replying to was rather wide ranging. As was my reply. That and the fact that I seemed as if I was addressing "you" when in fact my post was addressed to everyone reading the thread as well. Bad phrasing on my part there. I don't think there is anything at all to be gained from quarrelling because basically I agree with you. I also don't think all government documents related to UFOs are hoaxes or disinformation. Sorry for not making any of that clear.

There are definitely people in 'government' who think there is something to UFOs. Not everyone of course and others believe the total opposite. I think neither of those two groups knows the truth behind the true 'unknowns'. One would like to know the other thinks they know! The majority of 'government employees' , however, probably don't care or even think about it.

As for science. The problem with a scientific study of UFOs is that it will likely end up as a high cost/low yield exercise. If you rely on some kind of funding for studies then people want to see results. UFOs are totally unpredictable and results are hard to come by. There is also the 'snicker factor' which has been used way back since the 1950s to discourage people reporting UFOs. It's perhaps not as prevalent as it used to be but it's still there. Politicians are also wary of throwing money at something that the vast majority of the public would consider a complete waste of resources.

However there is a small scientific study that people may or may not be familiar with - the Hessdalen project . This has been an ongoing study of strange aerial phenomenon in Norway. Even if they find an answer there I suspect it will not be the only answer to explain UFOs!




posted on Jan, 10 2017 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for the reply mirageman and I really appreciate the video. I was unaware that anything similar to this study was taking place.

I believe that you are correct that the process of studying UFOs (at least initially) would be slow tedious work, but I also believe that the more organizations that took on the projects of studying them, the more data would be compiled and not to forget, the technology for detection would likely advance by leaps and bounds (necessity is the mother of invention). People would find unique and abstract ways of better detection. Also, lets not forget, that if even one case is proven to be extraterrestrial - the pay-off would outweigh all discoveries up to date (both in technology and science). Not that I believe that all discoveries from studying UFOs would turn out to be alien craft. Most likely, the majority (possibly as high as 99.5%) would in fact be identified as something other than that.

My main point is that, at this point in our history, there are more declassified and leaked government documents in the public domain than ever before, and one glaring detail is that the government(s) have in the past, and do currently, classify documents specifically related to UFOs. From what I can tell, all government generated documents that mention UFOs are classified, because I've not seen any that weren't yet (with some exceptions, such as; government sponsored reports aimed at public release). Which begs the question - Why?. My conclusion is that the government(s) take the subject seriously, otherwise - why bother?

Thanks again for the reply.



posted on Jan, 20 2017 @ 07:10 PM
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Hello All,

Case in point:

www.cia.gov...

If you had any doubt before, you should read some of the documents just released and reconsider your position. 12 to 13 million documents released, and many declassified UFO related material.

Thanks All for your replies.
edit on 20-1-2017 by repairguyt because:



posted on Jan, 22 2017 @ 11:19 AM
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If one tenth of one percent of the claims made re ufo's , aliens, bases/buildings on the Moon/Mars were true this would be the busiest Solar System in the Universe and there is NOTHING special about were we live so for me it's all BS.

I joined here because I was told I would see real evidence but so far only of over active imaginations.



posted on Jan, 22 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: repairguyt

You might find this Interesting. Now I want some Infra reds.
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 23 2017 @ 04:08 AM
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a reply to: repairguyt

In an attempt to answer "why classify" after reading this post of yours it dawned on me the classification issue really does span multiple years and administrations. From the outside looking in, to the general citizen we see one solid wall of no available information.

I'm going to toss into the mix, that it's more likely that between all the branches of the military there hasn't been any sort of official handbook on how to deal with UFO sightings so they are defaulting to classifying everything. Rightly or wrongly it would make sense to just slap a classified designation on the information, then pass it up the food chain for someone else to make a decision.

The end result WE see is eventually some reports deemed non-essential do get released with a FOIA, some are probably genuinely lost in the record keeping process, and some are genuinely applicable to national security so withheld. What we see in some of the released reports is that someone, somewhere in the chain of review "may" have decided an unknown arial object is actually a threat so we jump on that as "Proof of Intent" the entire military complex feels the same as the original analyst.

Now I could be totally off-base, but am just trying to give you an alternate reason to your question.



posted on Jan, 24 2017 @ 04:55 AM
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originally posted by: JesusXst
a reply to: repairguyt

You might find this Interesting. Now I want some Infra reds.
www.youtube.com...


Most digital cameras and phone cameras see ir the sensor is sensitive to ir/uv and has a filter so that daylight pictures produce normal colours. Ir & whats called full spectrum cameras have had the filter removed.

Point a ir tv remote are you camera/phone and look at the lcd screen on the camera/phone press a button on the remote and see the ir signal.

I wouldn't believe the hype to much about claims in those videos those objects would probably shown on a normal camera as well.



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