Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

oops!

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

This is what Paul taught about supporting those who teach you the word of God.

Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

What are the good things we could give our teachers?

Food, drink, clothing, a car, a bed to sleep in, a few dollars in his pocket, eye glasses, shoes, a new Bible, etc etc etc. He should not even have to ask seeing it is instructing us to give. Not an instruction for him to ask.

however we are told that the law as I have been saying is for Israel and any stranger who wants to live among them.

Ex 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Lev 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.
Nu 9:14 And if a stranger shall sojourn among you, and will keep the passover unto the LORD; according to the ordinance of the passover, and according to the manner thereof, so shall he do: ye shall have one ordinance, both for the stranger, and for him that was born in the land.
Nu 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
Nu 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Nu 35:15 These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.
De 26:12 ¶ When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Anyway, there are lots of verses that show the law was for Israel in the land and any one who dwelt among them.

To impose law outside the land of Israel, without a temple, without the priesthood it is not for today and would be an error.

Today Paul restates all nine of the ten commandments in his writings, leaving out Sabbath observance. Paul shows through those nine the Law of liberty by which we are to live. Even the elders in Jerusalem agreed that the law was not for the Gentiles and not to impose it on them that which they themselves could not lift on finger to do.

So rightly dividing what is law for Israel in the land and what is the law of liberty for us today is by faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

a reply to: Seede
Seede,

Mollochio has time and again quoted outside sources to support his theory but does not seem to like it when you did it.

I have tried just to stick to the preserved word using only the preserved words mix with my own. but not changing the context as he has in proving Paul is a false prophet. But these type of men have been saying this of Paul since Christ called him so it surprises me not that men as we can read here still do.

Look what it says and you can see clearly

¶ What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You have spoken the truth and have witnessed to those who deny the Christ Jesus. I have just finished going back over the thread and re read the hatred rantings as I have heard many times before. The thing that bothered me was not so much Paul bashing but one who claimed her love for Jesus not truly knowing that the one she so adored was the same one she hated. To cover this problem that she has, she then must and has denied that Jesus is the Begotten of The Most High. I believe that this is the key to her misunderstanding. I do think that most all that have this problem do not or have never been taught that one must believe first and then all else is added. Thank you ChesterJohn for your teachings.
LOl

a reply to: ChesterJohn

What are the good things we could give our teachers?

8 But do not be called Rabbi (or TEACHER); for One (which would be Jesus and the HS) is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. 11 But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

Food, drink, clothing, a car, a bed to sleep in, a few dollars in his pocket, eye glasses, shoes, a new Bible, etc etc etc. He should not even have to ask seeing it is instructing us to give. Not an instruction for him to ask.

Except...only Paul says this. HE claimed the right to be "reimbursed" for teaching his "flock". Good grief, dude.
Do you not listen to Jesus? If you have the TRUE filling of the Holy Spirit (the Ruach Qodesh).....then you don't NEED a teacher. Even Jesus said the "Comforter" or HS would remind us of everything we should know.
So, what's with all the "teachers" of today? You can't see or hear the truth, because the false prophet Paul is in the BIBLE and because he's in the BIBLE, you think Paul is legit.
Guess what....Psalm 12:7 was written waaaaay before the New Testament was ever forged. So, how can you say that Paul's epistles are part of "God preserving His word to all generations"?

however we are told that the law as I have been saying is for Israel and any stranger who wants to live among them.

No. The 10 commandments are what Jesus referred to, and they are for EVERYONE. Yahweh's 613 laws were for Israel. Oh, and he was an imposter wanna be god.

Today Paul restates all nine of the ten commandments in his writings, leaving out Sabbath observance.

Um...except that the fourth commandment is "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy". So, I guess Paul (in his mind), had the right to not only go against Jesus, but the Father, as well.
Oky Dokie.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: ChesterJohn

You have spoken the truth and have witnessed to those who deny the Christ Jesus. I have just finished going back over the thread and re read the hatred rantings as I have heard many times before. The thing that bothered me was not so much Paul bashing but one who claimed her love for Jesus not truly knowing that the one she so adored was the same one she hated. To cover this problem that she has, she then must and has denied that Jesus is the Begotten of The Most High. I believe that this is the key to her misunderstanding. I do think that most all that have this problem do not or have never been taught that one must believe first and then all else is added. Thank you ChesterJohn for your teachings.
LOl

Wow. You have me all figured out. The one I truly adored is the one I hate now? No. I just think Paul is full of bull and I think the Bible is not inerrant. I still believe Jesus is good and the true son of the Most High.
WHO DO YOU think Jesus is? Do you believe he was Yahweh in the flesh? Cause from most of your posts, that's what I garnered. If I'm wrong, then feel free to let me know.
Oh, and I don't deny Jesus. Never said that once. I just hate Christianity.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

. But these type of men have been saying this of Paul since Christ called him so it surprises me not that men as we can read here still do

Hmmmmm.....maybe there's reason for that, Chester. Hey, even Thomas Jefferson saw through Paul. Actually, LOT'S of people have seen through Paul. More than you even realize. Wonder why that is??


Here's just a few people's thoughts on Paul (the liar) from reviews on Jesus Words Only. There are almost 500 of them. I just posted a few.


Dear... I am so happy to have found your website which has showed me the way to worship and follow God the Father and his Son's true teachings. I am reaching out because it's the Sabbath and I don't have anyone around to worship or share with. By writing to you I know I am with true followers, otherwise it's been lonely.


Thanks again, what a gift Jesus Words Only is.

Michael (9/17/2016)


Hellow Sir. My name is M. I am from Israel where I live. In the last few weeks I began to understand that Paul is NOT who all are teaching he is. As a Jewish believer in Yeshua I am so confused now. Your work is helping me, so thank you. I just wanted to let you know if you need help in Hebrew, I would love to help you. His will be done forever. Amen. Amen. (9/10/2016)


Hi Mr. D....

I wanted to take the time to say "thank you!!" for writing your amazing books Jesus' Words Only and Jesus Words on Salvation. These books are so unique in their kind. There aren't ANY other resources like it, as far as I can tell. If you would not have written them, I don't know how I would have put things together in the way that I'm able to now. Just "thank you" really doesn't cover my gratitude over the content of your books and what I am discovering in them. Your words and research have brought me incredible joy as I am rediscovering God's truth in His word. I have been a searching and confused Christian for years now. My search began after leaving the evangelical church and starting to read the Bible for myself for many hours per day. I found so many discrepancies with the teaching of the church as compared to the scriptures that I never saw before while I was part of a church, and being taught the word by pastors. Eternal security, salvation by faith alone, the rapture doctrine, the trinity, etc. Also, during my journey I seriously began to question Paul. As a result, I was so confused and up in the air about what to believe anymore. All the while reading the Bible searching for truth. This state of being lasted for a couple of years. When I came across your website and your books I decided I had to read them.

Well, your books have provided a landing strip for me with its clarity and thoroughness. A landing strip on which to land from my years of circling and searching for a logical path that I was hoping for to find in the scriptures. I am finally able to put the puzzle together to a much greater extent, thanks to your writings. For that I am eternally thankful to you. Thank you for writing these. I'm sure you did not write them with the intent that they would become best-sellers, as we all know how blind and deaf and stubborn those caught up in churchianity can be. So I guess that you wrote them only because of your love for truth. And as an aid for the few among us, whom God has graciously given eyes to see and ears to hear the truth when it crosses their path. Your books have the eternal value a million times over the monetary price for them.

Your books are written so very thorough, I can see the incredible effort and care with which you have put their content together. I own many, many books on christianity, religion and the Bible but your two books BY FAR are my most valuable resources, and I expect I will read them several times. They provide me with real tools to reach those around me who are lost in Paulianity and evangelical teaching.

It sure is a lonely road towards the Father, but it all will be worth it in the end.

THANK YOU again, from the bottom of my heart for your obedience to the Father and for your love for the truth and for materializing the insight that the Father has given you. May you be repaid many times over in heaven for your efforts here on earth.

God bless you and yours.

Sincerely,

Esth...(7/11/2016)


Hello I wanted to thank you for your research and truth that you share. Your work has been a tremendous help to me. ... Thank you again for your wonderful work! May God Bless you. B...a (8/15/2016)


Finding your website is truly a blessing. I have long questioned the philosophies presented by Paul and held my opinion that the book of Mathew is the most reliable gospel. I myself am a Christian, and follow the words of Jesus to the best of my ability, yet I am not perfect. I look forward to reading more of your pages and articles but I have many questions.

When I saw your site and your offer to answer questions I couldn't help but reach out. Everything seems to affirm that I was asked to seek these things out, yet guidance is a difficult thing to find in this world, and the scriptures are deep and easily misunderstood. Also I know that the word of man could have surely found its way into these pages and I want only to know my Father in heaven more. (J. 6/28/2016)






I want to thank you for your wonderful website and articles. As I have delved deeper into the Bible, I have become more suspicious of the “false grace theology” crowd and I noticed that they were always quoting Paul. They would never mention repentance. I always knew something was wrong. Thank you for your wonderful insight.

Sincerely, Greg (4/21/2016)




I then ‘learned’ I was supposed to follow the apostle to the Gentiles, Pharisee Paul. (1999) My walk with God suffered. It was confusing and divisive. I was what Vernon McGee called an ‘ultra-dispensationalist.’ I was taught that God wanted us to take Paul’s writings at their word, trumping all ‘Scripture’ that conflicted.

I can’t thank you enough for being obedient, using your considerable talents to right a grievous wrong regarding our Father’s real message.



Bless all of you in your organization for the truth you set forth. I am a retired high school teach (English, art, music, home economics, and Bible) who is ambitious to know the truth and follow only the truth. In my many years of Bible study I have come to question whether Paul’s great ethics even have a place in the Messiah’s true gospel. Through the past 1800 years, many have questioned whether Paul was an infiltrator to destroy the Truth from within. I have researched Marcion, Gnosticism, Zoroaster, Cerenthus, and numerous contributors to the Pauline message. My purpose has been to find “pure” truth; but, I have hoped to find some justification for his numerous contradictions to Yahshua (Jesus) and to Moses.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
Thus, not surprisingly, the only command from the Torah-law which Paul taught Gentiles as still applicable to them is found in 1 Corinthians 9:9
...
In fact, Jesus taught us not to take wages for preaching and teaching. (Matthew 10:8.) And thus Paul made of no effect the commandment of Christ by virtue of a commandment of a man ...

Keep it going with the straw-man arguments regarding what Paul supposedly taught or did. It's going so well.
1 Corinthians 9:11,12a, 15a, 18:
11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material support from you? 12 If other men have this rightful claim over you, do we not have it much more so? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right,*+...

* = Lit., “authority.”
+ = 2 Thessalonians 3:7, 8:
7 For you yourselves know how you should imitate us, because we did not behave in a disorderly way among you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food free. On the contrary, by labor and toil we were working night and day so as not to impose an expensive burden on any one of you.

Back to Corinthians:
15 But I have not made use of a single one of these provisions. ...
...
18 What, then, is my reward? That when I declare the good news, I may offer the good news without cost, to avoid abusing my authority* in the good news.

* = Or “rights.”

Regarding your phrase "the only command from the Torah-law which Paul taught", Acts 15:28:

For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled,* and from sexual immorality.* If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

1st * = Or “what is killed without draining its blood.”
2nd * = Greek, por·neiʹa. See Glossary.

All part of what you refer to as Torah-law.

Genesis 9:4

4 Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat.

Leviticus 3:17

17 “‘It is a lasting statute for your generations, in all your dwelling places: You must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’”

Leviticus 7:26

26 “‘You must not eat any blood in any of your dwelling places, whether that of birds or that of animals.

Leviticus 17:10

10 “‘If any man of the house of Israel or any foreigner who is residing in your midst eats any sort of blood, I will certainly set my face against the one who is eating the blood, and I will cut him off from among his people.

Deuteronomy 12:16

16 But you must not eat the blood; you should pour it out on the ground like water.

Deuteronomy 12:23

23 Just be firmly resolved not to eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the flesh.

1 Samuel 14:32, 33

32 So the people began rushing greedily at the spoil, and they took sheep and cattle and calves and slaughtered them on the ground, and they ate the meat along with the blood. 33 So it was reported to Saul: “Look! The people are sinning against Jehovah by eating meat with the blood.” At this he said: “You have acted faithlessly. Roll a large stone to me immediately.”

But just keep on taking your information and parrot the arguments against Paul from these guys (and those who approve or remain silent about it, no objections, the world is nuts, but not as nuts as some religious communities, how is this even allowed in a modern 'civilized' society like the US? How could the parents just stand there and let that happen to their babies? What kind of a parent are you then? Where is law enforcement? Where is the public outrage?):

1 Timothy 6:4 (CEV):

Those people who disagree are proud of themselves, but they don’t really know a thing. Their minds are sick, and they like to argue over words. They cause jealousy, disagreements, unkind words, evil suspicions,

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (NWT):

3 If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.

I can see the sickness very clearly sometimes.

a reply to: Malocchio

"Rightly divide" IS in modern English already so you don't need to translate it into English because I speak English, and, no, that is not the meaning of ''rightly divide."

Dividing something is seperating it into portions, and has no relation to context but specifically the ''word of truth" which could only mean the Gospels as Paul teaches it vs the Gospels the Apostles teach and the teachings of Jesus.

You're wrong, "rightly divide" was a King James translation. Modern translations don't use that phraseology, I gave two examples earlier. And the Wors of Truth, is the Word of God, and specifically when Paul was writing it was the Tenkh as the 27 New Testament books weren't canon at that time.

Why are you getting so bent out of shape over something so trivial? When you read and try to teach scripture, apply the proper context. It's a simple concept, really.

a reply to: whereislogic

Keep it going with the straw-man arguments regarding what Paul supposedly taught or did. It's going so well.

What is your hang up with the term "straw man arguments"? You've used it many times already. They aren't "straw men", they are my beliefs. You don't have to agree, nor do I expect you to. You are a Paulinian.
Paul did establish the whole system we see in churches today, of offices (pastor, teacher, apostles, etc). He also established PAYING the leaders for those things. Jesus never taught that. Once again, you have to pit Paul's words against the Son of Man.
I think it's going very well, thank you very much.
Oh, and I do not hold to the book of Leviticus either...nor much of the OT. I've already said that I don't believe YHWH is the Father of Jesus. The whole "blood sacrifice" theme is just plain evil, along with the numerous other atrocities that YHWH commanded or did.

a reply to: whereislogic

["Regarding your phrase "the only command from the Torah-law which Paul taught", Acts 15:28:

For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled,* and from sexual immorality.* If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”]


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My response:
James wrote that. Oh, and Paul contradicted it when he told his followers that it was ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols, so long as it wasn't going to offend a brother....basically, use your own conscience.
While JESUS in Revelation said this....

Revelation 2:14New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Whereislogic:
[1 Timothy 6:4 (CEV):

Those people who disagree are proud of themselves, but they don’t really know a thing. Their minds are sick, and they like to argue over words. They cause jealousy, disagreements, unkind words, evil suspicions,

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (NWT):

3 If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.

I can see the sickness very clearly sometimes.]
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My response:
Here let me translate the above for ya.....
If any man teaches any other doctrine but MINE (Paul's) and does not agree with ME (Paul) and MY wholesome instruction, which is from MY VERSION of the Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching which is in harmony with godly devotion, he is puffed up with pride (which Paul totally was) and does not understand anything (Paul turning the tables on anyone who disagrees with him).
He is obsessed with arguments and debates around words (here Paul is calling anyone who actually QUESTIONS HIS WORDS obsessed).
(Oh, and to top it all off)
These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.
(gee....Paul sure sealed it for himself, didn't he? Funny that he was ENVIOUS, of the true apostles, he caused strife wherever he went, he SLANDERED Peter and the other apostles behind their backs, Paul was SUSPICIOUS of everyone who didn't agree with him or who was doing something HE saw as wrong).
Yea. Pot, kettle, black.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

WHO DO YOU think Jesus is? Do you believe he was Yahweh in the flesh?

Without further rants as I do not want to upset you more than as you are now. Firstly let me explain that I am not a closet religionist nor any denomination of any movement.

Leaving Paul out of the mix and embracing the Nazarene movement of James is my central belief. I believe that the celestial realm was created by The Most High El. What that realm and substance is i have no idea. I believe that The Most High El is totally invisible Spirit of which I have no idea what that truly is.

As the Father El created, He then brought forth [openly showed] His image to His creation for their understanding. This image is shown as a celestial entity with creative ability and life within the entity. The KJV bible calls this entity the "Word".

The Word then created the terrestrial universe as we see it today. The Most High did not create this terrestrial universe according to the apostle John. Man and woman were created by both the Father El and His Word as Moses has taught.
The Father El placed His spirit "Word" into a woman to bring forth a terrestrial child. The child was born with the terrestrial image and the celestial spirit of His Father El. This image and spirit is called Jesus by our understanding. He is made in His own image as he was in the celestial realm with the same spirit of His Father. To clarify this is to say that the "Word" was and is the celestial Begotten Son of The Most High as well as His terrestrial image as the terrestrial Begotten Son of the Most High. The word "Begotten" must be understood as both in the celestial and terrestrial realms. Simply "Son" does not apply and must be the Begotten Son of The Most High.

Basically that is who Jesus is according to the KJV bible and basically that is what I accept. Paul does not enter into this mix at all in my basic belief simply because he was not even thought of in the first organization of the Nazarene movement although I do believe Paul was as he says he was. I do not accept the Roman church nor what it spawned as doctrine even though I do accept the majority MSS of the literature available.

I do not understand what is meant by all of the various names that people tag onto deity such as Yahew. Some understand Yahew as being The Most High El wile other use it to mean Jesus. I was educated to understand The Most High as being "Yahuah" and Jesus as being "Yahusha" but then what profit would that be unless I were talking to one who also uses the same. All it does is add confusion in a discussion. The apostle John uses the word "Jesus" to describe "Word" and "Father" or "God" to describe the Father El so that is what I use in my talking to others.

I do not believe that from one biblical author we can choose what to believe and what not to believe. That is ridiculous to even assume that anyone can interpret any truth in that manner of trying to understand literature. If I were in such a tizzy about Paul then I would tear his literature and all mention of him from my book and rest my mind. But then what to do in believing the others who grace the book with Paul? Then would I be obligated to do the same with their testimony of Paul. The same of Jesus. If I were to believe Him not to be the Begotten of the Father what to do with the authors that write otherwise. Very soon I would have no book left to tear up.
LOL

a reply to: lSkrewloosel

Look up "Zeitgeist debunked", alot of it is trash connections and references.

Doesn't prove Christianity is true, but it does expose false info from Zeitgeist.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

My response:
James wrote that. Oh, and Paul contradicted it when he told his followers that it was ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols, so long as it wasn't going to offend a brother....basically, use your own conscience.

Where? In 1 Corinthians he says that if someone tells you that something was sacrificed to an idol not to eat it. I know of another place where he says not to eat meat or drink wine if it will offend someone else.

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: Akragon

the egyptians created the foundation of christianity. christians stole it the idea and called it christianity.

maybe look at Zeitgeist - greatest story ever told. good watch.

Zoroastran was the creator of the first monotheistic religion.

All others are copycats.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

My response:
James wrote that. Oh, and Paul contradicted it when he told his followers that it was ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols, so long as it wasn't going to offend a brother....basically, use your own conscience.

Where? In 1 Corinthians he says that if someone tells you that something was sacrificed to an idol not to eat it. I know of another place where he says not to eat meat or drink wine if it will offend someone else.

1Cor 8:4-12 “As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world & that there is none other God but one...but meat commendeth us not to God: for ne for neither if we eat are we the better, neither if we eat not are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols: gh thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren & wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.”

So basically, Paul just gave the green light to eat meat sacrificed to idols, yet covers it all up with a bunch of goobly gop (which he's really good at) to convince those listening to him that it's only OK, if you don't have a weak conscience....HOWEVER, if your brother has a weak conscience, then don't do it. Like that way he leads you with a carrot to disobey Jesus, by building you up by making you think you are STRONG IN THE FAITH if you can disobey Jesus. Or, am I wrong? Don't think so.

Now, go back and read Rev. 2:14, and then tell me how the heck Paul can get around that. Go ahead.

comin in to this thread late i will try to express how i feel about Paul in justa few sentences.

Paul for me is the ultimate miracle of Gods word. Here is a man that is the worst persecuted ever of Jesus followers.
He hates them so much that he is willing to do everything and i mean really everything to get rid of his followers because he thinks he is doing Gods work. But then God from nowhere take ''this man'' this worst of worst man and makes him his own follower. That is truly a miracle. Not only does he do that but he lets him the worst of worst man write more then half of the NT. In there lies the true meaning which is. All of us are sinners and very grave sinner specially in our time and age with blasphemy as soon as you take a step out your door. We have violence displayed on our tv screens all day, abortions, porn, drugs, new drugs, weapons of mass distractions, pollution well almost every thing is upside down. And God is tellin us throw Paul ''Don't give up on me, because no matter how grave sinner you are. If you truly turn your self to me with all of your heart and stop with your sins. I will make you something that you could never imagined'' and that is exactly the thing he did.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I know of another place where he says not to eat meat or drink wine if it will offend someone else.

Paul would make a great politician...since he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.

One person's faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. (Romans 14:2)
Hmmmm....wonder why Paul makes a distinction between meat eaters and vegetarians. Must be something to that. Actually there is, but you'd have to be willing to figure out why. I did. My God told me not to hurt another sentient being....not even for food. I do my best to adhere to that. THAT...is true love, and THAT is a God who is worthy of my adoration.
You should also take another look at why Jesus went postal on the money changers at the temple. It wasn't because of "money", it was because of what they were doing to innocent animals in "God's name".

originally posted by: Bojay
comin in to this thread late i will try to express how i feel about Paul in justa few sentences.

Paul for me is the ultimate miracle of Gods word. Here is a man that is the worst persecuted ever of Jesus followers.
He hates them so much that he is willing to do everything and i mean really everything to get rid of his followers because he thinks he is doing Gods work. But then God from nowhere take ''this man'' this worst of worst man and makes him his own follower. That is truly a miracle. Not only does he do that but he lets him the worst of worst man write more then half of the NT. In there lies the true meaning which is. All of us are sinners and very grave sinner specially in our time and age with blasphemy as soon as you take a step out your door. We have violence displayed on our tv screens all day, abortions, porn, drugs, new drugs, weapons of mass distractions, pollution well almost every thing is upside down. And God is tellin us throw Paul ''Don't give up on me, because no matter how grave sinner you are. If you truly turn your self to me with all of your heart and stop with your sins. I will make you something that you could never imagined'' and that is exactly the thing he did.

Except for one tiny detail....Jesus said there were righteous men, before He was even crucified for your sins. So, if you think a person can't be righteous (which is Paul's doctrine, which he twisted out of context through Psalms 14 and 53, by the way), then you aren't listening to Jesus. Let me ask you a question? WHY did Jesus tell the woman caught in adultery, who He protected from being stoned to death, to "go and sin no more"? If she had no power to NOT SIN, then why would He tell her that? Oh, and that was all before He "shed His blood for the remission of sins" (according to Pauline theology). Nope. Jesus tells us to do as He did.
He was murdered, and He knew He was going to be murdered. Why? Because He came to "bear witness to the truth". Just read His conversation to Pilate. What truth did Jesus come to show us? WHO THE TRUE GOD WAS. He wasn't a "blood sacrifice". He wasn't a "get out of jail free card" for everyone who believes in Him. He said, DO WHAT I TELL YOU. Not what PAUL tells you to do. Just Jesus.

a reply to: Seede

Love ya Seede