Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Dude, law is for Israel not gentiles.. figure that out ans you have it,

Kawabunga Man!

a reply to: NOTurTypical

So basically you want only the OT abd he four gospels.

great you will need to transport your self back in time where there is a temple in Jerusalem and keep the law under the Kingdom Gospel. Or just wait a few and you can do it then

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Dude, law is for Israel not gentiles.. figure that out ans you have it,

Kawabunga Man!

Your a little fired up there, Chester, lol. Cool.
Here's how I see it....the "LAW" is universal, written into our DNA. There are physical laws (like gravity) and there are spiritual laws (like reaping what you sow).
God didn't need a small group of people to show who He was. Look out at the stars sometime. Look at how much science has discovered about the infinite number of galaxies out there. Do you really think a God that can do all that, would need a little baby lamb's throat slit, to atone for sins? Or, do you think He's that blood thirsty? God is waaaaay bigger than the dang book you keep Him in.

Kawabunga Man!





Oh....and I'm a "dudette". LOL.

There is none righteous, no, not one:

a reply to: ChesterJohn

NONE righteous? Who says that? Paul? Well, your JESUS disagrees with you. Go read how many times Jesus called a man righteous. There was Able, Noah, Abraham, and a few I can't recall at the moment. Not only that, but Jesus said He didn't come to call the "righteous" but "sinners". Huh. Guess there WERE righteous people before He died. Oh, guess Paul was full of ca-ca.
Paul took Psalm 14 and Psalm 53 totally out of context. Do you know what the first verse of those Psalms say?? "A fool has said in his heart....THERE IS NO GOD". Ok. So, why did Paul leave that important verse out?? Oh, and to put the cherry on the topping of his yanking around the OT verses, those verses END with GOD saying that HE IS WITH THE RIGHTEOUS". Oh my. Seems to be a little conflict there. So, you have JESUS (whom you say you serve, and GOD, whom you say you also serve....contradicting PAUL). None righteous? Really? Read your bible better.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

And 2 chapters later in the same epistle Paul says if you learn that the meat was sacrificed to an idol then do not eat it. That was my point.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

So basically you want only the OT abd he four gospels.

great you will need to transport your self back in time where there is a temple in Jerusalem and keep the law under the Kingdom Gospel. Or just wait a few and you can do it then

? Did I say that?

What I said is a fact, at the time Paul was alive the 27 NT books were not canon, that came after. The early first century church taught Christianity and Jesus from the Tenakh. And I never said anything about keeping the law, so it's rather silly for you to attack me for it. That's a called a straw man argument.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

You should also take another look at why Jesus went postal on the money changers at the temple. It wasn't because of "money", it was because of what they were doing to innocent animals in "God's name".

Lol, no it wasn't. The people selling sacrificial animals at the temple were helping every one of their customers to offer an animal that was different than the way commanded in the Torah. A family had to bring one of their own with them to the temple, one from their own herds or flocks. God was extremely specific about what was an acceptable sacrifice at the temple for sin.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

You can't accept the kingdom gospel without keeping the law.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: whereislogic

["Regarding your phrase "the only command from the Torah-law which Paul taught", Acts 15:28:

For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled,* and from sexual immorality.* If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”]


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
My response:
James wrote that.

Acts 15:22,23 (NWT):

Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation, decided to send chosen men from among them to Antioch, along with Paul and Barʹna·bas; they sent Judas who was called Barʹsab·bas and Silas, who were leading men among the brothers. 23 They wrote this and sent it through them:
“The apostles and the elders, your brothers, to those brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Ci·liʹcia who are from the nations: Greetings!

Paul was "from among them" referring to "the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation", and "they wrote this"...

The instructions are as much from Paul as from Barnabas as from Judas as from Silas as from the other apostles and elders and members of the congregation. Paul was even amongst the ones who carried the message to Antioch. Since you're claiming that James wrote that, you're not calling James a liar now as well are you? And here I was led to believe you didn't like Paul defending himself against your false accusations and hatred. I guess it doesn't really matter that much to you who is defending Paul. That hatred/loathing for Paul you spoke about earlier is extended quickly.

THE Bible book of Acts provides a comprehensive history of the establishment of the Christian congregation and its subsequent expansion. Written by the physician Luke, it presents a dynamic account of Christian activity over a period of some 28 years—from 33 C.E. to 61 C.E.

The first part of Acts is primarily about the activity of the apostle Peter, and the latter part is about that of the apostle Paul. By using such pronouns as “we” and “us,” Luke indicates that he was present when certain events occurred.

Source: Highlights From the Book of Acts

The Writer. The opening words of Acts refer to the Gospel of Luke as “the first account.” And since both accounts are addressed to the same individual, Theophilus, we know that Luke, though not signing his name, was the writer of Acts. (Lu 1:3; Ac 1:1) Both accounts have a similar style and wording. The Muratorian Fragment of the late second century C.E. also attributes the writership to Luke. Ecclesiastical writings of the second century C.E. by Irenaeus of Lyons, Clement of Alexandria, and Tertullian of Carthage, when quoting from Acts, cite Luke as the writer.

Source: Acts of Apostles: Insight, Volume 1

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

You should also take another look at why Jesus went postal on the money changers at the temple. It wasn't because of "money", it was because of what they were doing to innocent animals in "God's name".

Lol, no it wasn't. The people selling sacrificial animals at the temple were helping every one of their customers to offer an animal that was different than the way commanded in the Torah. A family had to bring one of their own with them to the temple, one from their own herds or flocks. God was extremely specific about what was an acceptable sacrifice at the temple for sin.

Yea, that's if you believe YHWH's laws were what Jesus followed. Tell you what, name ONE law of YHWH Jesus kept. Just ONE.
You are correct on one thing...YHWH did demand certain sacrifices for sin. So, tell me this too, how did Jesus forgive sin before he shed his blood for the remission of sin? Or, better yet, tell me whether John's baptism is from heaven or men?
Isn't that what Jesus asked the Pharisee's and scribes? Wonder why he asked that question?
Here's a hint..if John's baptism wasn't from heaven (which was baptism in water for the forgiveness of sin), then that forgiveness doesn't count, correct?
Apparently, those religious rulers couldn't answer Jesus. Can you?

James sent that letter. Unfortunately, Paul later goes against it with his letters (epistles). But hey, if you can show me he didn't, feel free.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

And 2 chapters later in the same epistle Paul says if you learn that the meat was sacrificed to an idol then do not eat it. That was my point.

NO, he doesn't. Paul left it up to the person to decide. Completely contradicting what Jesus taught and was pretty peeved about in Revelation. So, did Jesus say eating meat sacrificed to idols was wrong, or did he not?

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
What I said is a fact, at the time Paul was alive the 27 NT books were not canon, that came after. The early first century church taught Christianity and Jesus from the Tenakh.

I shared this earlier:

Outside the Scriptures themselves there is evidence that, as early as 90-100 C.E., at least ten of Paul’s letters were collected together. It is certain that at an early date Christians were gathering together the inspired Christian writings.

We read that “near the close of the 1st cent., Clement bishop of Rome was acquainted with Paul’s letter to the church at Corinth. After him, the letters of both Ignatius bishop of Antioch and Polycarp bishop of Smyrna attest the dissemination of the Pauline letters by the second decade of the 2nd century.” (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, edited by G. W. Bromiley, 1979, Vol. 1, p. 603) These were all early writers—Clement of Rome (30?-100? C.E.), Polycarp (69?-155? C.E.), and Ignatius of Antioch (late 1st and early 2nd centuries C.E.)—who wove in quotations and extracts from various books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, showing their acquaintance with such canonical writings.

The first century Christians could easily teach about Jesus from the Christian Greek Scriptures as well as the Hebrew Scriptures, and I'm sure they did both, especially when talking to Jews.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
I just did. The letter starts in verse 23 all the way to verse 29, even the letter itself says who it's coming from, to whom these instructions can be attributed. You're just doing the usual 'stick your head in the sand'-behaviour regarding facts/realities that conflict with your expressed and promoted beliefs and arguments that is so common on ATS (and in the world in general). More demonstrations of 2 Timothy 4:3,4.

Just an endless stream of biased opinions with either no or illogical evidence to back it up. Mostly it's missing from your commentary, no research, no references to historical and archeological evidence, and if I could drag anything out of you at all it'll probably be some Jewish references, of the kind depicted in the video with Orthodox Jews I shared earlier; I'm not interested in those type of sources or those who copy or parrot their arguments and false accusations, twisting what Paul and others like Luke and James were teaching.

a reply to: whereislogic

Just an endless stream of biased opinions with either no or illogical evidence to back it up. Mostly it's missing from your commentary, no research, no references to historical and archeological evidence, and if I could drag anything out of you at all it'll probably be some Jewish references, of the kind depicted in the video with Orthodox Jews I shared earlier; I'm not interested in those type of sources or those who copy or parrot their arguments and false accusations, twisting what Paul and others like Luke and James were teaching.

Brother...

All you do is post videos and passages from scripture...

a reply to: Akragon
For unreasonable people there is no logic in responding with bible passages when others are using bible passages and twisting them in support of their theological philosophies and doctrines, twisted claims regarding what the bible (or someone mentioned in the bible) is teaching or what the God mentioned in the bible is like or teaching.

“Your Grand Instructor will no longer hide himself, and your eyes must become eyes seeing your Grand Instructor. And your own ears will hear a word behind you saying: ‘This is the way. Walk in it, you people,’ in case you people should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.”—Isaiah 30:20b, 21.

Jehovah is the “Grand Instructor.” He has no equal as a teacher. Certainly not my own imagination, fantasy, wishful thinking and bias as others think they can wing it*. (* = the search for the truths about important realities, such as God's existence and his identity, attributes, will and purpose for the earth and mankind; and more specifically, the false accusations and misrepresentations of those in this thread).

a reply to: whereislogic

Jehovah is the “Grand Instructor.” He has no equal as a teacher.

IF this is truth...

What could said god be jealous of?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

You can't accept the kingdom gospel without keeping the law.

I'm not familiar with the kingdom gospel, I only know of the gospel of Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians chapter 15)