An Infinite Universe ! - Can you accept it ? - Can you understand it ?

originally posted by: VP740

ETA: oh, and if no big crunch is coming, doesn't that imply the universe will go on infinitely?

No. It reaches a state of equilibrium. Where the energy causing it's expansion and gravity causing it's contraction zero out.

According to theory.

a reply to: AlienView

Whether we subscribe to the big bang or not, either way, we're still in the middle of eternity, already always.

Me, I'm just glad that there is something in it.

Its like asking what is GOD. Infinity is exactly that.....

I can live with the big bang theory as a theory and evolution even though I think they are both more like the religious speculation of the ancient philosophers who also theorized how the Universe came into existence without necessarily saying that a God was responsible for it, sometimes saying that no God exists. It is no more genius than anything dreamed up before telescopes and probes, microscopes and machines of all sorts incapable of viewing into the past and witnessing the moment of first consciousness in the Universe or the first act of natural undesigned evolution that would be the big bang of science. Of course the big bang theory lacks cause and explanation and is barely science.

But thinking that the Universe of night sky fame has a stopping point where you can't proceed in every or any direction is fundamentally flawed and almost to ridiculous not to laugh at because ends of things need a force existing to stop anything from passing to be ends, a wall, border or gate. And something is always on the other side even if you can not go there.

It's the most foolish thought man has ever had that didn't physically injure someone. The worst concept in history of a scientific nature. Maybe the Universe is inside an egg so large that incalculable distances exist that is also black on the inside and full of huge but comparatively miniscule balls of fire and other matter that are also so numerous as to be incalculable and one day that egg is gonna hatch and release its contents into an even bigger Universe that has an even larger black egg around it.

Seriously, as infinite is a concept that exists in math as there is no final number, so it is with space in distance. There is no last light year.

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: chr0naut

Are you an anticantorist? I never understood that philosophy. It'd be interesting to hear you expand on that if you are. What do you make of this: Infinite Divisibility in Euclidean Quantum Mechanics ? And how does Relativity effect things (Some entersting points are made here, and here)?

ETA: oh, and if no big crunch is coming, doesn't that imply the universe will go on infinitely?

Wow, what a paper!

Not sure if I agree at this point. I'll need a bit of time to digest it (hopefully not infinite).

You see the problem with infinity is that it can't exist in real time - And yet exists all the time

And real time also can not exist as time is in a state of continuous transformation - 'Now' is an illusion - an attempt to
freeze time - And yet time can not be frozen.

Without infinity you have a finite universe, state of existence, that could ultimately be defined in absolute terms
- This will never happen.

Infinity is omnipresent, undefineable and irreversible - It never began but will go on forever





“...it's very much like your trying to reach infinity. You know that it's there, you just don't know where-but just because you can never reach it doesn't mean that it's not worth looking for.”
― Norton Juster, The Phantom Tollbooth


“The stars up there at night are closer than you think.”
― Doug Dillon


“If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is - infinite.”
― William Blake


“...in an infinite universe, anything that could be imagined might somewhere exist.”
― Dean Koontz, Dead and Alive



"There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition."
- Rod Serling ["The Twilight Zone"]







"ScienceFictionalism - the way of the Future"
universalspacealienpeoplesassociation.blogspot.com...

a reply to: LucianusXVII

So at the end of your theorized finite Universe is what, a wall, a giant hollow shell?

First it is not my theorized finite Universe. The theory is but one of the latest that has been brought forward for consideration by some very smart people who study this kind of stuff full time.

What is at the 92 trillion light year boundary layer I don't know I have never been there and I doubt anyone you or I know has either. "M" theory which is a combination of the 5 string theories has not been proven true or false at this stage and until Cern can ramp its' power output up to somewhere over a theorized magic number (40 TEV ?) "M" theory is here until something better comes along. It is possible if you did reach the boundary layer and were able to penetrate its' energy field you would be stepping into another universe (inter dimensional sound familiar ?)...

This universe we live in could be like a soap bubble touching other soap bubbles in (for you religious folk) god's bath tub... I just hope he/she/it does not pull the plug anytime soon and we all end up in the cosmic septic tank...

a reply to: mOjOm

But even if it isn't spatially infinite, it raises the possibility of temporal infinities. Or when will the univers end?

a reply to: LucianusXVII

So at the end of your theorized finite Universe is what, a wall, a giant hollow shell? 

Whatever it "is" I have a question, what's on the other side? 

What's at the end of the world? Well, where is the end of the world? The North Pole? If you go far enough you'll start heading to the other side of where you started.

According to General Relativity the same thing can happen in 3d. Does that make sense?

a reply to: VP740

Who knows. Time may not end. But what does that matter if life does end???

If there's no life to notice the passing of time what difference does it make anyway??

a reply to: VP740

From what I understand the latest results have our universe being Flat but it could be infinite or finite they aren't sure.

Flat meaning it's space is Euclidean. So parallel lines never meet and triangles have 180 degrees total angles.

If it's infinite then it's like an infinite plane. If it's finite it's like a torus.

We may never know.

Well grasping and infinite universe starts here in the finite –

originally posted by: apydomis
Well, grasping and infinite universe starts here in the "finite".–

a reply to: apydomis

" 'Well, grasping and infinite universe starts here in the "finite".–' - apydomis " -apydomis

Hmm... I'm not sure I see what you're getting at. Could you expand?

a reply to: mOjOm

And this secret spake Life herself unto me. "Behold," said she, "I
am that which must ever surpass itself. - Nietzsche: Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Life may have some tricks up her sleeve that you didn't count on.

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: mOjOm

And this secret spake Life herself unto me. "Behold," said she, "I
am that which must ever surpass itself. - Nietzsche: Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Life may have some tricks up her sleeve that you didn't count on.

Can you explain what you're getting at using logic and reason rather than mysticism or riddles??

If I have to interpret what you're saying then you're not really saying anything.

a reply to: mOjOm

Can you explain what you're getting at using logic and reason rather than mysticism or riddles??

There's a place for logic and reason, and there's a place for mysticism and riddles.

a reply to: mOjOm

If I have to interpret what you're saying then you're not really saying anything.

[]

a reply to: Mobius8

Isn't God also the ecology of all that lives and exists? Why the singular emphasis on nothingness?

This, to me, is a problem. The mind IS able to maintain both understandings, yet many people cannot tolerate both, needing to hold to one - either nothingness (infinity = God), becoming the either/or dilemma.

Fact is, if a world exists, it exists for a reason. Just because your consciousness can touch the core does not mean that that is the only way to see it.

Indeed, cognitive science, social psychology and relational psychoanalysis HIGHLY EMPHASIZES the causative impact of the CONTEXT in determining how people experience and interpret their experiences. So, for instance, if you've heard said that depth of being is "nothing" and therefore nothing exists, you'll assume the same view point without the knowledge that your assumption of that viewpoint, paradoxically enough, is causing your non-existent being to understand things in a very specific way.

The experience is real, it just isn't the final say.

The World EXISTS. It's fun, beautiful and awesome.

That's how I see things, even if I know a great infinite depth exists, the infinite depths nevertheless found it important to generate a Universe that produces a being that unifies mind and matter into its life and being.